Ultimates 2 #10 cover released

E.Vi.L. said:
Oh yeah, Red Skull was that super nazi right? But we've already done nazi AND old time war enemy of cap in the first arc. You think we gonna do it again?!
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That's why the created the Ultimate Univrse, my friend. To Ultimitize such characters in a way more plausible to the modern world. The general consensus is Red Skull will be a Communist, since red is generally associated with Communism these days. And I think he'll be more Cap's anti-thesis then his old nemesis.
 
Meh. The only communists that remains faithful to the ideology after the fall are dreamers and utopists, not hard headed hawks. The Hawks who want a return to USSR style government don't dream of freedom from capitalism but of the return of the empire. They areare imperialist, not communist. They've pretty much all ditched the trappings of communism and most have aligned with Poutin or even more right wing factions of the Russian political landscape. Truth to be told, the Hawks of old USSR weren't very communist to start with decades before the fall.

I sooner see Thor fighting for communism than a supervillain. Well, who knows, perhaps Red Skull will be a true idealist who really dream to overthrow capitalism and give power to the workers but who is willing to go break eggs to achieve that. Like Lenin, basically. But I hardly see how a posse of dreamer clinging on to a dead ideology would muster the clout to take down the Triskelion. It just feels wrong. I doubt communism has much to do with this coup.
 
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E.Vi.L. said:
Meh. The only communists that remains faithful to the ideology after the fall are dreamers and utopists, not hard headed hawks. The Hawks wants a return to USSR style doesn't dream of freedom from capitalism but of the return of the empire. They areare imperialist, not communist. They've pretty much all ditched the trappings of communism and most have aligned with Poutin. Truth to be told, the Hawks of old USSR weren't very communist to start with long before the fall.

I sooner see Thor fighting for communism than a supervillain. Well, who knows, perhaps Red Skull will be a true idealist who really dream to overthrow capitalism and give power to the workers but who is willing to go break eggs to achieve that. Like Lenin, basically. But I hardly see how a posse of dreamer clinging on to a dead ideology would muster the clout to take down the Triskelion. It just feels wrong. I doubt communism has much to do with this coup.
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That's the thing. I don't think they're Russian. In fact, their are still two aggressive Communist countries today that are a threat. China and North Korea. Plus, it's got to have something to do with Communism. That sickle and hammer is a dead giveaway. They didn't just put that in their for the hell of it.
 
Nope, neither are still communist in any meaningful sense of the word except the name they give themselve. The ideology is long dead.

Communism in theory is a controlled market with a free government. China is controlled government in a mostly free market. The exact opposite. Notice how China never preaches communist revolution to its neighbor the way USSR did for most of its history? No one in power is a believer. None. As for North Korea, it is an isolated dictatorship so poor that more people die of hunger in that country than in most African Country (not kidding). About their only income is to repeatedly threaten to keep up with their nuclear program if they don't receive foreign aid. Then start again. They are so poor and money strapped that If North Korea ends up attacking the US, I swallow my Ultimates #10.

Anyway, to have either of these country strike the US in the name of communism would be incredible from an author as politically savvy as Millar. If they are to be more threatening in UU, at least let it be for the right reasons. Essentially China wants to become a Superpower and the US blocks its path as much as they can much like they did when Japan was rising in the 30s (well, not nearly as obnoxiously so I don't see a war anytime soon in RL). So that can, in theory, lead to war. Communism? No. Nope. Nyet. Non.
 
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E.Vi.L. said:
Nope, neither are still communist in any meaningful sense of the word except the name they give themselve. The ideology is long dead.

Communism in theory is a controlled market with a free government. China is controlled government in a mostly free market. The exact opposite. Notice how China never preaches communist revolution to its neighbor the way USSR did for most of its history? No one in power is a believer. None. As for North Korea, it is an isolated dictatorship so poor that more people die of hunger in that country than in most African Country (not kidding). About their only income is to repeatedly threaten to keep up with their nuclear program if they don't receive foreign aid. Then start again. They are so poor and money strapped that If North Korea ends up attacking the US, I swallow my Ultimates #10.

Anyway, to have either of these country strike the US in the name of communism would be incredible from an author as politically savvy as Millar. If they are to be more threatening in UU, at least let it be for the right reasons. Essentially China wants to become a Superpower and the US blocks its path as much as they can much like they did when Japan was rising in the 30s (well, not nearly as obnoxiously so I don't see a war anytime soon in RL). So that can, in theory, lead to war. Communism? No. Nope. Nyet. Non.
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Regardless if China invokes Communism fully or not, they're still Communist. And their color is still officially red.
 
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You really believe that China will attack the Ultimates out of the Blue in two issues? I'm not buying it.
 
E.Vi.L. said:
You really believe that China will attack the Ultimates out of the Blue in two issues? I'm not buying it.
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Did nobody read the Annual?! That huge confrontation with Fury and the other general is seriously pushing toward an Ultimates/Foreign Superteam confrontation. I just think that the 'Anti-Thor' sickle and hammer shows, at the very least, that Communists are somehow involved.
 
I'm gonna toss Russia in there because of Widow and what we saw in Nightmare. If any other country attacks us it's gonna be Iraq. They are not just gonna plop a country down on The Ultimate Universe's United States randomly even if in reality that country could be a threat to us.


Or maybe it will be a mix? Millar hates American Government/Military so much wouldn't a everyone versus us be appropriate considering his feelings?
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
I'm gonna toss Russia in there because of Widow and what we saw in Nightmare. If any other country attacks us it's gonna be Iraq. They are not just gonna plop a country down on The Ultimate Universe's United States randomly even if in reality that country could be a threat to us.


Or maybe it will be a mix? Millar hates American Government/Military so much wouldn't a everyone versus us be appropriate considering his feelings?
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Possibly. In fact, I think it was mentioned somewhere that a possible Asian Coalition Ultimates-style team would be created to counter the Ultimates. Very Cold War Arms Race style. instead of Nuclear Warheads, though, it's superpeople.
 
Yeah I read the Annual, which is why I'm not buying into the communist angle. At best it indicates Russia but for purely real politik reason as I said earlier. We're dealing arms race here. Nothing to do with ideology.

Beside, the guy he argued with was named Viktor. He's likely russian. "Don't think we don't know what you're trying to put together in Asia" still refers to Russia. Most of it is in Asia. Vladivostok is a stone throw away from Tokyo, not Berlin.

So forget about China and North Korea, they make no sense.

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The arc is called "Grand Theft America" not "Grand Invasion America". I hope the impetus for the coup still comes from within and that foreign support is peripheral. If it's essentially a full blown invasion by a group of foreign supers, the title turns from clever to cop-out IMO.
 
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Lynx said:
Well, seeing that the team is down to only five members
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Do you not consider the reserves to be part of the team?

moonmaster said:
I agree with Bass. Millar will pull this off. I don't think I've ever been disappointed by a single issue of the Ultimates. Honestly. I can't see why Millar would take everything that he's built so far and make his grand finale crap. It just doesn't make any sense. I think he and Hitch know that this HAS to be a story to remember. And it will be.:D
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I totally agree, which is why this thread is killing me.

Guys, we are witnessing history with Ultimates 2. This will go down as one of the greatest stories in comic book history. We're talking Watchmen-esque. Not only do I think Millar won't screw it up, I don't think he could if he wanted to.
 
UltimateE said:
Guys, we are witnessing history with Ultimates 2. This will go down as one of the greatest stories in comic book history. We're talking Watchmen-esque. Not only do I think Millar won't screw it up, I don't think he could if he wanted to.
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:shifty:

**** Damn **** **** Balls! I so don't wantto agree with you. But I really have no reason not to believe it's true. Except for how big of a let down Ultimate Defenders was... But ****.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Except for how big of a let down Ultimate Defenders was...
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Of course it was a let down! It was supposed to be! That was the entire point!
 
UltimateE said:
Of course it was a let down! It was supposed to be! That was the entire point!
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And yet I love 'em. :lol:


This series will so be history. (In the good way sense. In other words, what E said.)
 
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