Ultimate X-Men #87 (Spoilers)

Ultimate Warrior said:
My theory is that the old team faced Apocalypse and failed so the future is a hell. The current team was picked by Cable and Bishop to save the future but

1) they had to get rid of Professor X for the team to actually work and come together.
2) OR Professor X is the key to the old teams failure against Apocalypse so they had to get rid of that obstacle for the current team to have a shot.
3) All the above.
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Good theories.
 
I still think they're bad.

My reasoning comes from the X-Men Bishop wanted.

Pyro who was with the MLF before Bishop got to him. Thus a mutant terrorist.

Psylocke who was a special agent and a world class telepath. Any plan Apoc has...a world class telepath agent would be an obstical, especially since her father and brother are part of the EU group, if she caught wind of Apoc early the Captains Europe would be involved. So keep her busy and keep her confused on this whole wife talk.

Storm is possessed. If Cable knew about Phoenix then Bishop knows about Shadow King. Yet he's never said a thing about it, why? Could Shadow King be an agent of Apoc?

Dazzler's rebellious and powerful. Tell her a lie about someone in power and odds are she'll agree to help fight them without question. She's a weapon, if aimed properly.

Now here's the problem, IMO. He WANTED Colossus, but Colossus isn't one to do something he doesn't think is right (he left to Russia when he found out about Magneto). Colossus is also, probably the best person on the X-Men. He's a stand up guy to his friends, he's a nice human being. I don't see how he could help further Apoc's plains. Perhaps they planned on something happening to his family? To Northstar? I don't know.

Of course, Apoc's plain will ultimately fail. And the seeds of failure are here too. Wolverine joined the team, Colossus didn't, and Angel joined. So what difference could three people make?

Wolverine's "The Best at what he does" so of course he's a big loose cannon. Colossus would have been the muscle of the group, but replaceable unless he was to be a horsemen in which case they lose a rather big player.

Then there's Warren...I just don't know what his place in this is, which is why Bishop let him join...what harm could a guy with wings cause in a world where everyone flies without wings? So I think Angel will have a big role to play but I don't see as what. I hope they don't Archangel him because there could be so much more to do.

It sounds like Beast was a part of the plan too, another reason to have Storm on his side. So the Legacy virus has something to do with this.

So I think all the storylines will merge with Apoc...but again this could be amazing and it's not.
 
Foolsfolly said:
I still think they're bad.

My reasoning comes from the X-Men Bishop wanted.

Pyro who was with the MLF before Bishop got to him. Thus a mutant terrorist.

Psylocke who was a special agent and a world class telepath. Any plan Apoc has...a world class telepath agent would be an obstical, especially since her father and brother are part of the EU group, if she caught wind of Apoc early the Captains Europe would be involved. So keep her busy and keep her confused on this whole wife talk.

Storm is possessed. If Cable knew about Phoenix then Bishop knows about Shadow King. Yet he's never said a thing about it, why? Could Shadow King be an agent of Apoc?

Dazzler's rebellious and powerful. Tell her a lie about someone in power and odds are she'll agree to help fight them without question. She's a weapon, if aimed properly.

Now here's the problem, IMO. He WANTED Colossus, but Colossus isn't one to do something he doesn't think is right (he left to Russia when he found out about Magneto). Colossus is also, probably the best person on the X-Men. He's a stand up guy to his friends, he's a nice human being. I don't see how he could help further Apoc's plains. Perhaps they planned on something happening to his family? To Northstar? I don't know.

Of course, Apoc's plain will ultimately fail. And the seeds of failure are here too. Wolverine joined the team, Colossus didn't, and Angel joined. So what difference could three people make?

Wolverine's "The Best at what he does" so of course he's a big loose cannon. Colossus would have been the muscle of the group, but replaceable unless he was to be a horsemen in which case they lose a rather big player.

Then there's Warren...I just don't know what his place in this is, which is why Bishop let him join...what harm could a guy with wings cause in a world where everyone flies without wings? So I think Angel will have a big role to play but I don't see as what. I hope they don't Archangel him because there could be so much more to do.

It sounds like Beast was a part of the plan too, another reason to have Storm on his side. So the Legacy virus has something to do with this.

So I think all the storylines will merge with Apoc...but again this could be amazing and it's not.
Click to expand...


wow...that's some really well thought-out...thoughts you got there. Lol just reading that cleared up a lot of what the plot might really be about. Regardless of what's going on now, when it does build up i'll be glad i waited around. So many people are taking a dump on the book right now, but i can't see it getting any worse. Good times are coming, guaranteed.
 
airjavier31 said:
wow...that's some really well thought-out...thoughts you got there. Lol just reading that cleared up a lot of what the plot might really be about. Regardless of what's going on now, when it does build up i'll be glad i waited around. So many people are taking a dump on the book right now, but i can't see it getting any worse. Good times are coming, guaranteed.
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Well until Ultimatum starts. Then things get ****ed up.
 
Thanks, dude.

The book's pretty meh right now but Kirkman's run seems to be something along the lines of "meh story" "terrible story" "good story" over and over again. This is a terrible story but the next one is Apocalypse so at least the big guy will get a proper introduction.

Citing Apoc's story.
 
Foolsfolly said:
Thanks, dude.

The book's pretty meh right now but Kirkman's run seems to be something along the lines of "meh story" "terrible story" "good story" over and over again. This is a terrible story but the next one is Apocalypse so at least the big guy will get a proper introduction.

Citing Apoc's story.
Click to expand...

So, that's how they're turning Sinister white, huh? He's coming back from the dead.

Still, I am curious about Ultimate Apocalypse. If it gets good again, maybe I'll catch up.

Maybe.
 
Foolsfolly said:
Thanks, dude.

The book's pretty meh right now but Kirkman's run seems to be something along the lines of "meh story" "terrible story" "good story" over and over again. This is a terrible story but the next one is Apocalypse so at least the big guy will get a proper introduction.

Citing Apoc's story.
Click to expand...

Now I 'm excited for Ultimate Apocalypse.
 
Still don't like the art, especially the boring, flat colors. But I gotta say, I didn't see the twist coming.
 
Who says Cable and Bishop are bad guys?

We already know Cable never intended to kill Xavier. The worst things they have done was stabbing Kitty and blowing Rogue's arm off. Maybe they're just doing their parts in stopping Apocalypse and would go to the extreme if it was for the greater good.
 
It's possible.

But I still think they're working for Apocalypse. Why work in secret so much otherwise? Why tear the X-Men apart? And the big one, why blind two of the world's best telepaths one by "killing" him and causing mutant unrest and the other by getting her on a team instead of working for Xavier investigating the Hellfire Club and keeping her ears open?

Bishop killed the Fenris twins...those two were for mutant rights by using their money in seedy deals. Now, either Kirkman completely got the characters wrong (not to be discounted) or the twins wanted the Sentinels up and running for a reason. What if they got wind of Apoc beforehand? An army of robot mutant killers wouldn't be a big obstical for Apoc but it would cause some trouble so why not limit the things in your way when you take over?

Good guys don't lie to other good guys and keep secrets about the single force on Earth that makes the Ultimate Universe the ruins we've seen in the future.
 
Foolsfolly said:
Good guys don't lie to other good guys and keep secrets about the single force on Earth that makes the Ultimate Universe the ruins we've seen in the future.
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Except that, in the UU, the good guys lie to, or at the very least keep secrets from, the rest of the good guys on a regular basis.

We know that Xavier has been doing this all along with his very own black-ops mutant operatives, shady underhanded-deals, and secret installations noone knows about.

Fury demands info from everyone, yet shares it with few.

The X-men keep secrets from SHIELD regularly, and SHIELD tries to hide everything they are doing from everyone, not accepting help from anyone.

The Fantastic Four has kept serious and potentially world-destroying info back before (Zombie Four, anyone?)

I think it would be keeping with Xavier's dream and Xavier's legacy for a couple of mutants to go back in time with a glorified Con-game in order to save the world.
 
Foolsfolly said:
Good guys don't lie to other good guys and keep secrets about the single force on Earth that makes the Ultimate Universe the ruins we've seen in the future.
Click to expand...

Just like Nick Fury and Charles Xavier keeping the Legacy Virus a secret and manipulating Beast for months?

I noticed Bishop's hesitation for recruiting Angel. Ultimate Archangel, Horseman of Apocalypse anyone? Xavier's "death" is a interesting homage to the 616 Age of Apocalypse as well.
 
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Ok, valid points boys.

Still I think they're agents for the big ole En Sabah Nur.
 
Foolsfolly said:
Ok, valid points boys.

Still I think they're agents for the big ole En Sabah Nur.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind that either. Bishop and Cable as Death and War. That'd be a pretty sick start to the Horsemen.

But I don't really see that happening...my bet is that they're keeping things secret so that they don't ruin the future or alter some of the x-mens psyche too much y'know?

Can't WAIT for apoc now. Or ultimates 3 to start but that's another thread.
 
My guess right now is that Cable and Bishop are working to "strengthen" the X-Men somehow for Apocalypse. Look at Dazzler. Her powers have grown thanks to Bishop. Storm is becoming a great leader IMO. Still don't know what the others are there for but some how I think they are trying to stregnthen them.

Other than that, my other guess is, as well, that they are Horsemen ready to get to work for Apocalypse. I like the assumption that Bishop is the Horseman of Death and Cable is the Horseman of War (which fits with him being Wolverine as a homage to Wolverine becoming Death once).

Anyways, I don't see where all of this is going. (recap time) Psylocke being married to Bishop in the future, Nightcrawler leader of the Morlocks, Fenris aiding the Sentinels, where the hell Stryfe comes in, and then finally Bishop with Cable. It doesn't click for me. What does all of that stuff have to do with each other.
 
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