Ultimate Spider-Man: Ultimatum (#129-133) (Spoilers/Discussion)

J. Caleb Mozzocco said:
And in this, the final issue, the culmination of Bendis' nine years on the title, we get a completely silent issue that is completely devoid of Spider-Man and/or Peter Parker.

He's not in the book. Not a panel. The first half of it involves the Hulk and Spider-Woman fighting, the second half involves the various supporting characters making their way to Aunty May's house, seeing a torn up Spider-Man mask, and crying. The end. There's your climax. That's the conclusion of a nine-year, 132-issue storyline. The lead character dies off-panel between issues, when a character from another comic book punches a magical maguffin that makes a magic mushroom cloud of pink energy.
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Absolutely perfect.

I agree with his review. Granted, he liked USM more than I did, but I agree with pretty much everything he wrote.
 
The Overlord said:
I think you will like this article: http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/06/0...depressing-end-of-the-ultimate-age-of-comics/
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The Ultimates title quickly fell off-schedule and became a series of inconsequential miniseries that the monthlies like Ultimate Spider-Man would simply ignore. Ultimate Fantastic Four was launched without a regular creative team, burning through writers and artists at alarming speed. Millar left Ultimate X-Men perhaps too quickly, and it too began burning through creators, too many of whom began introducing the very elements the title succeeded by previously ignoring. The brand became diluted with unnecessary miniseries and annuals. The Ultimate Universe crossed over with properties that crossed over with the Marvel Universe (The Marvel Zombies, Squadron Supreme), inching toward the point at which Marvel said the Ultimate Universe would become superfluous. And then there was the Jeph Loeb and Joe Madureira Ultimates 3 miniseries which—and I'm not saying this just to be mean, this is my honest assessment of its quality—was perhaps the very worst comic book ever assembled by professionals.
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Spot on.
 
Bass said:
I loved how artistic and avant-garde it was without any speech bubbles. It was like, so powerful and stuff. And then, just in case we didn't get how pretentious and artsy it was, it ended with "Fin". Wow.

When someone uses the french word for something, it generally means they're talking merde.

Or are French.

Anyhow, USM is over, only to be rebooted. I can totally see how this issue is a good ending to the series, paying off Roxxon, the many personal relationships within Peter's life, his problem with the police and SHIELD, and... waitaminute. A big tsunami happened and then there was a big extra-dimensional explosion. Out of the blue. For no reason.

Well, he went out like he always did. On a big, fat deus ex machina. Yippee yay.
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I appreciated how they felt it necessary to say at the beginning "This is a silent issue".

I'm not sure Bendis is really to blame. If I were him, I would have phoned it in, too. I'd be curious to see how he really feels about the whole Ultimatum situation.
 
Zombipanda said:
I appreciated how they felt it necessary to say at the beginning "This is a silent issue".

I'm not sure Bendis is really to blame. If I were him, I would have phoned it in, too. I'd be curious to see how he really feels about the whole Ultimatum situation.
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While working on Star Trek Voyager, Robert Beltran, someone who was at least competent actor, decided the series sucked by season 2 and phoned it in since then. Well I can admire the ironic attitude behind that decision, it doesn't change the fact that he put in some crappy performances. So Bendis doesn't have an excuse for phoning it on, crappy work is crappy work.
 
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True. But Beltran acted his *** off whenever he was given something proper to do. I always wondered why I liked Chakotay so much... and it's because Beltran was one of the only actors on the show really paying attention to what he was being asked to do.
 
The Overlord said:
While working on Star Trek Voyager, Robert Beltran, someone who was at least competent actor, decided the series sucked by season 2 and phoned it in since then. Well I can admire the ironic attitude behind that decision, it doesn't change the fact that he put in some crappy performances. So Bendis doesn't have an excuse for phoning it on, crappy work is crappy work.
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And when the box you have to work in is about 6 square inches and the guy before you took a dump in it, I can absolutely excuse it.
 
Zombipanda said:
And when the box you have to work in is about 6 square inches and the guy before you took a dump in it, I can absolutely excuse it.
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That's a BS excuse.

I'm sorry but when a series lasts 132 issues and 9 years it should get a better ending then this crap, the people who read the series all the way deserve better then a **** you ending. Seriously Bendis couldn't be bothered to show Spidey dying on panel it happens off panel, out of the blue. BS.

There is no excuse for that and bet most people on this board feel cheated by such a crappy ending.
 
The Overlord said:
I'm sorry but when a series lasts 132 issues and 9 years it should get a better ending then this crap, the people who read the series all the way deserve better then a **** you ending. Seriously Bendis couldn't be bothered to show Spidey dying on panel it happens off panel, out of the blue. BS.
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I doubt that was Bendis' decision.

And anyway, if he died off panel, that means he's probably not dead.
 
Zombipanda said:
I doubt that was Bendis' decision.

And anyway, if he died off panel, that means he's probably not dead.
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DD, Nightcrawler and Wasp died off panel, I doubt they will coming back. This crossover just loves dropping bridges on characters. I doubt there has been any deaths with any emotional impact in this mess.

There were a several ways Bendis could have handled this better: Spidey could have been fighting Hulk, they end up in at a electrical plant, there is an explosion and all you see is Spidey's mask, that's not great, but that's better then Spidey being taken out by some random magic explosion and croaking off panel and not appearing in the comic at all. At least Spidey would have gone out fighting. Ending the series on such an anti climax was ultimately Bendis' decision and its a real screw you to anyone who has been reading the comic for the past 9 years. Bendis can't blame this lame ending on Loeb, its ultimately Bendis' fault.
 
The Overlord said:
DD, Nightcrawler and Wasp died off panel, I doubt they will coming back. This crossover just loves dropping bridges on characters. I doubt there has been any deaths with any emotional impact in this mess.

There were a several ways Bendis could have handled this better: Spidey could have been fighting Hulk, they end up in at a electrical plant, there is an explosion and all you see is Spidey's mask, that's not great, but that's better then Spidey being taken out by some random magic explosion and croaking off panel and not appearing in the comic at all. At least Spidey would have gone out fighting. Ending the series on such an anti climax was ultimately Bendis' decision and its a real screw you to anyone who has been reading the comic for the past 9 years. Bendis can't blame this lame ending on Loeb, its ultimately Bendis' fault.
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?

Oh yeah? I didn't realize you were sitting in on Marvel's editorial meetings.

And you sure do love the phrase "dropping bridges".
 
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Zombipanda said:
?

Oh yeah? I didn't realize you were sitting in on Marvel's editorial meetings.

And you sure do love the phrase "dropping bridges".
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I like TV tropes, is that a crime?

Do you have proof that editorial staff at Marvel forced Bendis forced end the series with such an anti climax? Can I see this proof? Seems like you are just making excuses for Bendis at this point. Bendis wrote this anti climax ending, so he should bare responsibility for it and what let down it is for people following the series for the past 9 years. Even if this was forced on him, he has a lot clout at Marvel, he couldn't have fought for a somewhat better ending, that involves Spidey appearing on panel in the last issue? It seems to me like this is his fault.
 
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The Overlord said:
I like TV tropes, is that a crime?
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It should be.

The Overlord said:
Do you have proof that editorial staff at Marvel forced Bendis forced end the series with such an anti climax? Can I see this proof? Seems like you are just making excuses for Bendis at this point. Bendis wrote this anti climax ending, so he should bare responsibility for it and what let down it is for people following the series for the past 9 years. Even if this was forced on him, he has a lot clout at Marvel, he couldn't have fought for a somewhat better ending, that involves Spidey appearing on panel in the last issue? It seems to me like this is his fault.
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I'm not saying it happened one way or the other. I have no clue how much was decided by editorial and how much was decided by the writer. You never know. Honestly, this book hasn't been very good for a long time; but I'm willing to give Bendis the benefit of the doubt considering what a cluster**** this whole event has been.
 
I think he meant more like, Bendis didn't have much say when it comes to the death of Peter Parker, so he had to try and do the best he could with the material.

When he realized he couldn't do that he fell back on a gimmick from 8 years ago.
 
Gemini said:
I think he meant more like, Bendis didn't have much say when it comes to the death of Peter Parker, so he had to try and do the best he could with the material.

When he realized he couldn't do that he fell back on a gimmick from 8 years ago.
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Exactly. We don't exactly know how much freedom Bendis had. We don't know what the editorial mandate in this situation was. You talk about how he should have "fought for a better ending" but how do you know he didn't? Bendis has crapped out a bunch of terrible stories, but I'm not eager to hoist this one on his shoulders.
 
Zombipanda said:
It should be.
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No it shouldn't, TV Tropes is awesome. 8)

Zombipanda said:
I'm not saying it happened one way or the other. I have no clue how much was decided by editorial and how much was decided by the writer. You never know. Honestly, this book hasn't been very good for a long time; but I'm willing to give Bendis the benefit of the doubt considering what a cluster**** this whole event has been.
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I'm saying I'm pretty sure Bendis would have at least some leeway regarding how he could have killed off Spidey, the mandate may have been for Parker to "die" in this event, but I'm pretty sure he would have some control over how exactly Parker could have died in the last issue. I doubt he was just some defenseless new babe in the woods, with all the clout he has Marvel, one can logically deduce he some leeway in which the manner Peter Parker meets his demise. After 9 years, 132 issues and a new 4 dollar cover price, long times fans deserve better then Bendis phoning it in.

Zombipanda said:
Exactly. We don't exactly know how much freedom Bendis had. We don't know what the editorial mandate in this situation was. You talk about how he should have "fought for a better ending" but how do you know he didn't? Bendis has crapped out a bunch of terrible stories, but I'm not eager to hoist this one on his shoulders.
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Because he is Marvel current golden boy, so I don't buy this "defenseless deer caught in the headlights" characterization you are giving him. He has a lot of clout at Marvel, so I don't buy this idea that he was completely strong armed to write the story exactly like this and had no leeway at all.

If Bendis was strong armed, he should do what JMS did after writing OMD, write an article blaming the story on the editors and then distancing himself from it.
 
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The Overlord said:
No it shouldn't, TV Tropes is awesome. 8)
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:rockon: I like my TV Tropes too!

Joe Kalicki said:
So he should act like an unprofessional prick?
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I actually don't think JMS did what Overlord said he did. I follow JMS quite a bit (or used to) and I never came across him saying anything inflammatory or unprofessional.

But the contention between Zombipanda and Overlord is this: How much of #133 is Bendis and how much is editorial mandate?

Until we know for sure, it's hard to place fault. It's possible Bendis had a terrific idea for the ending, couldn't pull it off because of the editorial mandates and just did this as best he could. It's possible he had free reign.

The issue is bad. Bendis wrote it. Ergo, he wrote a bad issue. But it's possible he's not entirely to blame. I dunno.
 
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