DIrishb said:
I think it was an easter egg type thing, as there are a slew of reasons why this Annual can't occur during or immediately after Ultimates 2 #10. Mainly the fact that there's absolutely no mention of the Liberators invading the country. We'll see how it goes in the coming books, and after U2 finishes. Right now I'm ignoring the TV screens stuff in terms of the timeline and, as I said, just treating it as an easter egg.
I agree. You don't have a FULL-SCALE NATIONWIDE ATTACK ON AMERICAN SHORES and NOT have it come up somewhere in the story. New York was too regular for this to take place within at least a month of the Liberators' attack. I agree it's an Easter Egg, but I also think putting it in as an easter egg is incredibly stupid. You don't slide an instance from a major event in the near future into a scene. Easter eggs should give the reader's a nice little nod of the heaed to something that exists outside of continuity OR they should provide a preview of something that's going to happen in the future in a smart way, which actually makes sense according ti continuity. It's not cute. It's stupid. Bendis is stupid. and I hate him. and he smells.
MaxwellSmart said:
It's only been one issue. There is plenty of time to flesh him out.
It's been a number of issues. We've already seen his origin, and we've already seen him in action. and he sucks. It's not like we've seen a hint of the character and there's plenty of room for him to grow. Making him cool is going to require diverging drastically from the route Bendis has chosen to portray him. Sure, he can be saved, but it means changing the route he's going completely.
Hibiki said:
Is Punisher's family dead in this one too? If so, what a way to be different.
I feel like that's a part of the character that always needs to be there. There's some fundamental aspects of characters you just can't change. Peter Parker is always a teenager who gains spider powers and finds out "with great power comes great responsibility". Superman is always Clark Kent, a strange visitor from a mysterious planet. And the Punisher is always a hard-*** who loses his family and chooses to take the law into his own hands... If you take that away from the character, he stops being the Punisher.
ManWithNoFear said:
The problem with Punisher is hes turning into a plot device here. Bendis is just throwing him in for the sake of having someone prematurely shoot DeWolff.
EXACTLY! Frank hears someone mention there's a new mob boss, so suddenly he's like, "Well, there's my excuse... I guess it's time to break out of jail and start shooting **** up! But first, I need a haircut...." Apparently Frank Castle's just been taking a honeymoon in jail, knowing he can break out at any time. He's not aware there are still bad people in the world until some two-bit thug tells him so. :roll: and Moon Knight was just a plot device so that Bendis could do the cool Marvel Knights thing at the end. He doesn't even have someone tipping him off about Kangaroo. He just breaks out of the hospital, checks up on the organized crime message board, and decides to pop in.
The way I see it you have no vigil if you're in that business. I think Goodfellas or the Godfather are perfect examples. All those guys cheated on their wife, why would Kingpin be any different. I wouldn't be surprised if he even had a prostituion ring. On another note, you can't help the connection you feel when you meet someone. If you feel it was meant to be, then dump your woman and go with your choice. If he really cared for her, then he wouldn't be rumored to be sleeping around with so many women.
You see, that's the rub. The Kingpin/Vanessa relationship was the one thing that extended the Kingpin beyond being a stereotypical (albeit, a well characterized) mob boss. Sonny Corleone cheated on his wife, but he had other humanizing traits: primarily the love of his family. Vito NEVER cheated on his wife. Fredo wasn't even married, but he was a total sleaze anyway. and Mikey? Yeah, sure he cheated. on his girlfriend, when he was in exile, and it was a huge issue for the character. And Goodfellas was biographical, so it wasn't really about developing interesting traits in characters.
Sure, mobsters cheat on their wives. That's not what sucks. What sucks is the fact that Fisk has been stripped of the one trait that really humanized him and made him three-dimensional.
but thanks a lot!
