Ultimate Spider-Man Animated Series

Venom Melendez said:
Except those aren't "problems" at all, just your own bias opinion.

And since there are plenty of people who enjoyed those clips, they sure aren't "Problems" . And again, there is various ways to interpret these characters, and all are valid. Just because it isn't your cup of tea, doesn't make it a "problem".

If you aren't going to give the show a chance, why even post in this thread? No offense.

And it isn't serious, big deal. Not everything has to be Dark and Grim. The silver age stuff was goofier than this anyway.

The Teen Titans show did similar gags and that was a hit, it even brought in a new generation of comic readers.
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I am expressing my opinions and biases on a message board? Wow what a shock, no one has ever done that here before.

Of course I am expressing my own biases and opinions, if other people like this clip, that's fine, I have no desire to control other people's tastes. Again maybe I am off base and maybe this cartoon will be the best thing ever, that doesn't mean I like that clip. Just because its my opinions, doesn't make my criticisms of those clips invalid.

And really Jersey Shore gets good ratings, that doesn't make a good show or anything besides a cultural landfill. Popularity doesn't determine quality. I won't think something is good just because its popular.

Also Silver Age Marvel wasn't as goofy as this, Silver age Spidey never broke the fourth wall or had really cartoony humor. That was Silver Age DC. I think that's why people like Batman Brave and the Bold, because it was a throw back to Silver Age DC. Plus early Spidey was never a team player, so it seems odd for him to be in a team and working for SHIELD at this point in his career. Spectacular Spider-Man seems closer to Silver age Spidey then this cartoon, with Spidey being a lone hero in high school. Its not about being dark, its about what I feel is closer to the character as presented in the comics.
 
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The Overlord said:
I am expressing my opinions and biases on a message board? Wow what a shock, no one has ever done that here before.

Of course I am expressing my own biases and opinions, if other people like this clip, that's fine, I have no desire to control other people's tastes. Again maybe I am off base and maybe this cartoon will be the best thing ever, that doesn't mean I like that clip. Just because its my opinions, doesn't make my criticisms of those clips invalid.

And really Jersey Shore gets good ratings, that doesn't make a good show or anything besides a cultural landfill. Popularity doesn't determine quality. I won't think something is good just because its popular.

Also Silver Age Marvel wasn't as goofy as this, Silver age Spidey never broke the fourth wall or had really cartoony humor. That was Silver Age DC. I think that's why people like Batman Brave and the Bold, because it was a throw back to Silver Age DC. Plus early Spidey was never a team player, so it seems odd for him to be in a team and working for SHIELD at this point in his career. Spectacular Spider-Man seems closer to Silver age Spidey then this cartoon, with Spidey being a lone hero in high school. Its not about being dark, its about what I feel is closer to the character as presented in the comics.
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Actually, Silver Age Marvel had plenty of goofy moments. Thor turning into a frog, Superia trying to turn Captain America and Paladin into women,etc.

Plus of course, their fun all ages Marvel Adventures books.

As for early Peter not being a "team player", you do remember that he stared in a book called "Marvel Team-Up", where he regularly teamed up with other heroes.

He teamed up with other heroes outside that book and he tried to join the F4 when he was starting out. He's also close friends with other heroes,Luke and Danny included.

And Ultimate Peter was getting SHIELD training in the Ultimate books.

The first White Tiger(Hector Ayala) was also a regular in his books for awhile.

So no, it's not odd at all and he also still has solo adventures. Going by the premier at SXSW, he's fighting the Frightful Four solo in the first episode.

And while just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good, what's "good" is subjective. Just because you dislike something, doesn't mean others can't enjoy it.
 
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A grown man doesn't like the new direction of a Saturday morning superhero cartoon?

Uh-oh.... Marvel has clearly missed their demographic entirely...
 
Zombipanda said:
A grown man doesn't like the new direction of a Saturday morning superhero cartoon?

Uh-oh.... Marvel has clearly missed their demographic entirely...
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Ahem. Sunday morning! Get it right! :p
 
Venom Melendez said:
Actually, Silver Age Marvel had plenty of goofy moments. Thor turning into a frog, Superia trying to turn Captain America and Paladin into women,etc.
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Those examples are from the 80s, the Silver Age was from the early 60s to the early 70s. I don't think Spidey ever turned into a frog or a woman in the 60s.

My point is there has never been the type of 4th wall jokes in a Spider-Man comic, that we see in this clip. In Silver Age Marvel Spider-Man wasn't appear he was a fictional character, so the 4th wall jokes seem a bit jarring. Silly things happen in almost ever comic or indeed almost any type of fiction. Its how you treat these silly things that matters.

Venom Melendez said:
Plus of course, their fun all ages Marvel Adventures books.

As for early Peter not being a "team player", you do remember that he stared in a book called "Marvel Team-Up", where he regularly teamed up with other heroes.

He teamed up with other heroes outside that book and he tried to join the F4 when he was starting out. He's also close friends with other heroes,Luke and Danny included.

And Ultimate Peter was getting SHIELD training in the Ultimate books.

The first White Tiger(Hector Ayala) was also a regular in his books for awhile.

So no, it's not odd at all and he also still has solo adventures. Going by the premier at SXSW, he's fighting the Frightful Four solo in the first episode.
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But Spidey has spent most of his career as a solo act, he didn't join the Avengers till 2004, for 4 decades Spidey was a lone hero. Marvel Team up was just him teaming up heroes for one adventure, not being a member of a team. That's not quite the same.


Venom Melendez said:
And while just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good, what's "good" is subjective. Just because you dislike something, doesn't mean others can't enjoy it.
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And who says I'm commenting on anyone's tastes but my own? I cannot regulate other people's tastes, but saying other people like it means nothing to me. Frankly I don't hate this cartoon, the way I would Jersey Shore, where I do think the popularity of that show is damaging to our culture. But that argument is a non starter with me, I really don't care how popular something is, that's not a merit I can judge something on. From those clips, that cartoon didn't seem similar to the Spidey I was used to reading.

Zombipanda said:
A grown man doesn't like the new direction of a Saturday morning superhero cartoon?

Uh-oh.... Marvel has clearly missed their demographic entirely...
Click to expand...

We are all out of the demographic of this cartoon, no one at Marvels cares if anyone here likes it or not. If you are going to comment on me being outside the show's demo, why even have this tread on this site, since everyone here is out of the demographic. I am merely commenting on it because there is a thread on it, is that not the point of this thread?

Geeze, other people on this thread have been harsher on it then I have, is everyone going to jump their throats as well?
 
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Venom Melendez said:
Actually, Silver Age Marvel had plenty of goofy moments. Thor turning into a frog, Superia trying to turn Captain America and Paladin into women,etc.
Click to expand...

Those examples are from the 80s, the Silver Age was from the early 60s to the early 70s. I don't think Spidey ever turned into a frog or a woman in the 60s.

My point is there has never been the type of 4th wall jokes in a Spider-Man comic, that we see in this clip. In Silver Age Marvel Spider-Man wasn't appear he was a fictional character, so the 4th wall jokes seem a bit jarring. Silly things happen in almost ever comic or indeed almost any type of fiction. Its how you treat these silly things that matters.

Venom Melendez said:
Plus of course, their fun all ages Marvel Adventures books.

As for early Peter not being a "team player", you do remember that he stared in a book called "Marvel Team-Up", where he regularly teamed up with other heroes.

He teamed up with other heroes outside that book and he tried to join the F4 when he was starting out. He's also close friends with other heroes,Luke and Danny included.

And Ultimate Peter was getting SHIELD training in the Ultimate books.

The first White Tiger(Hector Ayala) was also a regular in his books for awhile.

So no, it's not odd at all and he also still has solo adventures. Going by the premier at SXSW, he's fighting the Frightful Four solo in the first episode.
Click to expand...

But Spidey has spent most of his career as a solo act, he didn't join the Avengers till 2004, for 4 decades Spidey was a lone hero. Marvel Team up was just him teaming up heroes for one adventure, not being a member of a team. That's not quite the same.


Venom Melendez said:
And while just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good, what's "good" is subjective. Just because you dislike something, doesn't mean others can't enjoy it.
Click to expand...

And who says I'm commenting on anyone's tastes but my own? I cannot regulate other people's tastes, but saying other people like it means nothing to me. Frankly I don't hate this cartoon, the way I would Jersey Shore, where I do think the popularity of that show is damaging to our culture. But that argument is a non starter with me, I really don't care how popular something is, that's not a merit I can judge something on. From those clips, that cartoon didn't seem similar to the Spidey I was used to reading.

Zombipanda said:
A grown man doesn't like the new direction of a Saturday morning superhero cartoon?

Uh-oh.... Marvel has clearly missed their demographic entirely...
Click to expand...

We are all out of the demographic of this cartoon, no one at Marvels cares if anyone here likes it or not. If you are going to comment on me being outside the show's demo, why even have this tread on this site, since everyone here is out of the demographic. I am merely commenting on it because there is a thread on it, is that not the point of this thread? Do you think Marvel cares if grown men outside of its demographic like this show?
 
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The Overlord said:
Geeze, other people on this thread have been harsher on it then I have, is everyone going to jump their throats as well?
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Nah. You're just the most convenient target, and I'm just being snarky.

I just think it's silly to argue about what this series isn't, when it's trying to be something else entirely. It strikes me as an attempt to draw in younger audiences by appealing to the popularity of the Avengers movies and cartoon and using Spidey as a gateway to introduce kids to the rest of Marvel's properties. Your arguments just don't make much sense to me. "Spidey never broke the fourth wall before. Spidey spends most of his time as a solo hero." In this series, he's not. So what's the argument? You're going to judge the series on the merits of what you expect from a comic book rather than judging the series in its own right? That's silly.

Oh, and people didn't like BatB because it reminded them of the past. They liked it because it was fun.
 
Zombipanda said:
Nah. You're just the most convenient target, and I'm just being snarky.

I just think it's silly to argue about what this series isn't, when it's trying to be something else entirely. It strikes me as an attempt to draw in younger audiences by appealing to the popularity of the Avengers movies and cartoon and using Spidey as a gateway to introduce kids to the rest of Marvel's properties. Your arguments just don't make much sense to me. "Spidey never broke the fourth wall before. Spidey spends most of his time as a solo hero." In this series, he's not. So what's the argument? You're going to judge the series on the merits of what you expect from a comic book rather than judging the series in its own right? That's silly.

Oh, and people didn't like BatB because it reminded them of the past. They liked it because it was fun.
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But again this my personal opinion on this show, based on my likes and dislikes. That's part of the point of the thread, to give our opinions on the show. To me if you stray too far from a source material, you can lose what makes the thing sucessful in the first place. That's the problem with say Spider-Man Unlimited, it felt like some Batman Beyond rip off, instead of being Spider-Man. Can't you make the same argument for that show? Just saying "this show doesn't follow those plot elements in this series" detracts from what made Spidey so popular in the first place, it feels like fixing something that isn't broken.

And people comment on things that are out of their demograph all the time. Should adults not complain that the Lorax is used to sell SUVs, even though the movie is aimed at children? I have seen people complain about how the Lorax was adapted from the book in this latest movie, that a lot of the orginal message got lost in some uneeded Hollywood story telling cliches. Is complaining about that silly, because the movie is not going to be exactly like the book? I think if you change too much of something, you are in danger of missing the point when it is adapted.
 
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Breaking the Fourth Wall... you keep using those words, I don't think it means what you think it means.


Metafiction (aka Breaking the 4th Wall) in this context, is more of an overt acknowledgment of the fact that they are in a work of fiction, for a better example most Deadpool, Byrne's She-Hulk, and to a lesser extent Morrison's Animal Man.

What he did in the preview was more of what's known as a "Wink-nod", where the character acknowledges a presumed thought/question/etc of the viewer (or acknowledging the camera's presence), a different theatrical mechanic that actors like Sean Connery and Roger Moore brought to an art form in the Bond franchise (Also, in reference to a previous paraphrase, Carey Elwes does it beautifully in The Princess Bride)

Also, IIRC, the 90's Spidey cartoon self-monologued as narration (or Peter has an extreme psychotic break) as he does now. I know for a fact that for the longest time in the comics he also self-monologued, just like he did in the preview, down to the "wink-nod" answering the readers' unasked questions.


And I won't get started on the insertion of the real world Spider-man movie into the comic.


Not all metafiction is Breaking the Fourth Wall, but all Breaking the Fourth Wall is metafiction. Spidey's always been guilty of it.
 
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Jaggyd said:
Breaking the Fourth Wall... you keep using those words, I don't think it means what you think it means.


Metafiction (aka Breaking the 4th Wall) in this context, is more of an overt acknowledgment of the fact that they are in a work of fiction, for a better example most Deadpool, Byrne's She-Hulk, and to a lesser extent Morrison's Animal Man.

What he did in the preview was more of what's known as a "Wink-nod", where the character acknowledges a presumed thought/question/etc of the viewer (or acknowledging the camera's presence), a different theatrical mechanic that actors like Sean Connery and Roger Moore brought to an art form in the Bond franchise (Also, in reference to a previous paraphrase, Carey Elwes does it beautifully in The Princess Bride)

Also, IIRC, the 90's Spidey cartoon self-monologued as narration (or Peter has an extreme psychotic break) as he does now. I know for a fact that for the longest time in the comics he also self-monologued, just like he did in the preview, down to the "wink-nod" answering the readers' unasked questions.


And I won't get started on the insertion of the real world Spider-man movie into the comic.


Not all metafiction is Breaking the Fourth Wall, but all Breaking the Fourth Wall is metafiction. Spidey's always been guilty of it.
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Perhaps I am using the wrong term here. Perhaps its more correct to say everything seems more exaggerated here then in previous installments of Spider-Man. The scene where Spidey remembers his fight with Trapster and a big red arrow appears to show when and where Traspster put the tracking device on him, seems more exaggerated then need be. He could have just found the device and verbally theorized that Trapster put it on him. It just seems like needlessly spelling out a plot point to the kids.

If some people like this exaggerated feel, then good for them. That doesn't mean everyone is going to like it.

Also at this point I don't feel like arguing with 3 people at once, I think I am done talking about it.
 
There's two major distinctions with the Lorax comparison. First, the commercialization you mentioned is directly antithetical to the story. The Lorax is about environmentalism. To use him as a spokesman for an SUV is in direct opposition to the central theme of the story. Second, it's a self contained story with a definitive beginning and end, and a core theme and message at the heart of it. "Wasteful destruction for profit will destroy us". Spider-Man is a robust property. There are key elements to the character. He's an everyman character with spider powers and a central theme of responsibility. But as far as the "problems" you mentioned, all of them have been used with the character in the past, and none of them run contrary to who the character is. Nothing about the trailer seems to contradict who the character fundamentally is.

I think you just need to lighten up. He's a versatile character who's been through multiple iterations. The problem arguing with you (not just in this thread but in general) is that you tend to focus on very narrative criteria for what's good and what's bad, to the extent that it's nearly impossible to have any rational discussion with you about the actual pros and cons of the issue.
 
Jaggyd said:
Breaking the Fourth Wall... you keep using those words, I don't think it means what you think it means.


Metafiction (aka Breaking the 4th Wall) in this context, is more of an overt acknowledgment of the fact that they are in a work of fiction, for a better example most Deadpool, Byrne's She-Hulk, and to a lesser extent Morrison's Animal Man.

What he did in the preview was more of what's known as a "Wink-nod", where the character acknowledges a presumed thought/question/etc of the viewer (or acknowledging the camera's presence), a different theatrical mechanic that actors like Sean Connery and Roger Moore brought to an art form in the Bond franchise (Also, in reference to a previous paraphrase, Carey Elwes does it beautifully in The Princess Bride)

Also, IIRC, the 90's Spidey cartoon self-monologued as narration (or Peter has an extreme psychotic break) as he does now. I know for a fact that for the longest time in the comics he also self-monologued, just like he did in the preview, down to the "wink-nod" answering the readers' unasked questions.


And I won't get started on the insertion of the real world Spider-man movie into the comic.


Not all metafiction is Breaking the Fourth Wall, but all Breaking the Fourth Wall is metafiction. Spidey's always been guilty of it.
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^This

Anyway, moving on.

Here's an interview with Duncan Rouleau:
http://marvel.com/news/story/18243/meet_the_men_of_action_duncan_rouleau

and Steven T. Seagle on the show:
http://marvel.com/news/story/18280/meet_the_men_of_action_steven_t_seagle
 
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Drunken Pickle said:
Haven't watched any clips for this. Who makes up the Frightful For and does Doom have the goat legs?
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Wizard,Trapster,Klaw and Thundra.

And no, he does not.

This show has a cool Creepy looking Doc Ock btw.
 
Ah oh well to Doom.

I did actually see a marvel link that described Ock a few minutes ago. It was intriguing that they are going asm #600 with Ock and I think that's great!
 
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