Ultimate Secret #3 (Spoilers)

[Bass]

I thought the issue was lots of fun. The only problem I had was that after three months we get another set up issue. Sigh.

In any case - I thought Thor rocked. "Military-industrial-complex drone girl. Bring us beer."

Yeah - I know it's not exactly like Millar's Thor in The Ultimates - but this Ultimate Secret by Ellis. I don't care he doesn't sound like the political animal but a glorious warrior eager for those simple battles of legend of good versus evil. This is the side of Thor that is mentioned in The Ultimates - the Norse God side of him - we haven't yet experienced. This isn't changing the character. It's developing a side of him that is appropriate for this story, though it's less so for Millar's stories. Also - he didn't lose his political views. Ellis still managed to nonchalantly drop in his contempt for the military without any trouble, while making him sound like a warrior. Gotta love that.

Also, I dunno what's wrong with you people. "There's too much joking." The only lighthearted thing in the comic that was stupid was Iron Man trying to hit on Sue. As for the light-heartedness - they've just drafted four KIDS with outrageous powers who call themselves the "Fantastic Four". Considering his track run with Spidey, it makes perfect sense Fury would play up the action adventure side of the mission to get them onboard and doing their jobs without terrifying them. He's not going to start training them and show them how to kill things. He wants them to just get in there and blow things up. He doesn't need to needlessly scare or complicate matters for the F4. Mahr-Vehl does the same, being serious one moment, then trying to lighten up the situation as best as he can. Plus, while we have Torch, Thing, and Iron Man (who never take any of this stuff seriously until its right on top of them anyway) we had Black Widow and Hawkeye who don't crack one joke in the issue about Gah Lak Tus or the situation they're in. Yes, they do joke, but no more than the nervous barbing one gives familiar company in trying times - and the comments were "Your bow is stupid" and "You're marrying Tony for his money". Yes, I laughed when Hawkeye mentions the "A on my head" thing, but he's not making a joke. Hawkeye is very melancholy and explains that the whole thing is, as you're suggesting, being taken too lightheartedly, and everyone is acting like an amateur and that they'll all die because of this. He says this just after the "Dude. Keg." bit which is the most lighthearted part of the issue.

As for the rest of the issue, bits where Iron Man hits the button and it doesn't work were slightly comical but also quite worrying. They can't launch the damn shuttle. All these feelings of "they're not taking it seriously" are supposed to be there and created by Ellis to point something out - They're not ready for this. Here they are with aliens planning to watch them go extinct and they talk about reverse engineering and treat it like a damn science fair. Hawkeye's words sent a chill down my back because he's right.

Ellis, I thought, juggled the feeling of absurdity of aliens watching Earth be destroyed with the impending doom of such an occurrence very well.

Ultimate Nightmare was Falcon (who's looking for a cure for death), Black Widow (an ex-KGB operative), Nick Fury (head of intelligence organisation SHIELD) and Captain America (the super soldier) going through the hellish underground of a super soldier facility that is a dark mirror for their own ambitions in search for something that is responsible for mass suicides on a global scale.

Ultimate Secret is the Fantastic Four (who're kids with superpowers who go on crazy adventures), Captain Mahr-Vehl (who's defected to save humanity), Nick Fury and Black Widow (who's aware of the alien menace), Hawkeye (who's a disillusioned soldier), Iron Man (who's a drunken womaniser), and Thor (who's a rebellious legendary warrior who thinks he's a God) who've shown up to beat up some aliens that attacked a shuttle launch.

Of course it's not taken seriously by those who weren't in Nightmare. They don't get it - yet. Instead, we see them fumbling around and making mistakes (like the X-Men in Nightmare - is that a parallel, guess that's story structure for you).

It was a welcome change of pace.

And it made sense.





However, I did notice a plot hole. Why are the killforms visible? And why so many? One invisible killform destroyed the Asis. Did the Kree know that there'd be supers this time? If so - how did they know?

Still - the events surrounding the release of this issue is a ****ing disgrace.

 

[Guijllons]

Well I should stop commenting on it before I've read it then. But it's so much fun to go for the populist view as well

 

[DIrishB]

Regarding the candid banter between the Ultimates and the FF, I don't know. I don't see that even though there is great threat over their heads, doesn't automatically mean they should be sulking and crying and thinking "OMG, we're all gonna die!". Human tendency when he knows that there's a possibility of imminent death would have to be enjoying the ride while it lasts. Add the slight upgrade of egos by the Ultimates for having beaten down an entire alien invasion, the fact that Gah Lak Tus has yet to be seen, and the celebrity geekfest the UFF feels since they're personally meeting the Ultimates themselves and you have one hell of a meeting.

How about we test this theory? I put a loaded gun to your head with you under the impression I'm going to shoot and see how much fun you have. I'm sure you're not going to be wanting to go out for drinks at that point. Maybe change your underwear, but thats about it.

And Bass, they're still facing down the possible extinction of all life on their planet, I don't care who they are, kids or adults, they should be acting not as if its a Saturday night drive to the movies.

 

[compound]

How about we test this theory? I put a loaded gun to your head with you under the impression I'm going to shoot and see how much fun you have. I'm sure you're not going to be wanting to go out for drinks at that point. Maybe change your underwear, but thats about it.

And Bass, they're still facing down the possible extinction of all life on their planet, I don't care who they are, kids or adults, they should be acting not as if its a Saturday night drive to the movies.

The operative word is POSSIBLE. The comparison with the gun-to-your-head scenario doesn't work because cold steel against one's temple creates a far more real, physical, sense of impending doom than a battalion of sci-fi Killforms that may or may not wipe out life as we know it.

It's difficult for us mere mortals to wrap our heads around threat of something so... well... alien (literally).

Having said that, I do think a more comparable -- and relate-able -- situation would be the arrival of an oncoming, powerful hurricane. In which case, yes, the celebratory vibe seems unrealistic and out-of-place. But really, who cares, if it helps to tell a more interesting story?

(Of course, I won't know this, personally, until I've d*nl**d*d the issue )

 

[DIrishB]

The operative word is POSSIBLE. The comparison with the gun-to-your-head scenario doesn't work because cold steel against one's temple creates a far more real, physical, sense of impending doom than a battalion of sci-fi Killforms that may or may not wipe out life as we know it.

Right, but not in relation to the characters themselves. As far as they know they're dead as soon as Gah Lak Tus shows up, just as someone with a gun to their head thinks they're dead as soon as its fired. After all, its ignorant to assume they're the only planet with super-beings or technology advanced enough to fight off the Big G, and I think most of them are intelligent enough to realize it.

And in regards to my analogy, either way you're dead. Close enough for me.

It's difficult for us mere mortals to wrap our heads around threat of something so... well... alien (literally).

Having said that, I do think a more comparable -- and relate-able -- situation would be the arrival of an oncoming, powerful hurricane. In which case, yes, the celebratory vibe seems unrealistic and out-of-place. But really, who cares, if it helps to tell a more interesting story?

(Of course, I won't know this, personally, until I've d*nl**d*d the issue )

Read the issue then so you'll see what I'm talking about. A bit of joking is fine, its just gone overboard with this issue.

 

[Bass]

Your analogy is flawed. The point is some guy has just said "An alien's going to annihilate Earth" something the Ultimates stopped 6 months ago. Something the Fantastic Four already stopped in "N-Zone". They're not taking it seriously because they haven't don't know what it's about. And this isn't just "gun to your head" this is the Anti-God. It's so preposterous, it's hard to take it seriously.

If they immediately went all stern-faced and grimaced and went "My God" I'd find it a little unbelievable considering that they've seen this stuff before. Iron Man's already had his "Aliens are real?!" moment in The Ultimates. So have the F4. It's silly to assume that after successfully dealing with alien threats convincingly without suffering any casualties that they'd immediately **** their pants when another shows up. Especially when one of them watches "Lost".

It makes sense they'd be cocky and not take it seriously. They're overconfident. They're proud. Which is good, because now, they can fall...

 

[DIrishB]

Your analogy is flawed. The point is some guy has just said "An alien's going to annihilate Earth" something the Ultimates stopped 6 months ago. Something the Fantastic Four already stopped in "N-Zone". They're not taking it seriously because they haven't don't know what it's about. And this isn't just "gun to your head" this is the Anti-God. It's so preposterous, it's hard to take it seriously.

Ok, did either the Chitauri or the N-Zone aliens obliterate almost all life in the known universe? No. So I think its that analogy which is flawed. And they don't know the exact details, but they know what he's done based on Fury's breifing and Mahr-Vell's description. Considering that only the one Kree on the ship is allowed to know the details, as otherwise they'd all go mad, sounds a bit more serious than the Chitauri or N-Zone folks. Thats what you all keep missing.

If they immediately went all stern-faced and grimaced and went "My God" I'd find it a little unbelievable considering that they've seen this stuff before. Iron Man's already had his "Aliens are real?!" moment in The Ultimates. So have the F4. It's silly to assume that after successfully dealing with alien threats convincingly without suffering any casualties that they'd immediately **** their pants when another shows up. Especially when one of them watches "Lost".

Thats not what I'm saying, it has nothing to do with the fact they're aliens, it has to do with the scope of the threat.

It makes sense they'd be cocky and not take it seriously. They're overconfident. They're proud. Which is good, because now, they can fall...

Thats true, I just think NO ONE is that cocky given what they know about their foe. None of them are that ignorant or stupid, but all the overly-done humor makes them seem so in a way. Johnny, Ben, or even Tony or Thor, I could maybe expect the overconfidence from, but not Reed or Sue. They're usually the voices of reason, something Ellis didn't address at all about their characters with this issue, and something he should have.

 

[Bass]

Ok, did either the Chitauri or the N-Zone aliens obliterate almost all life in the known universe? No. So I think its that analogy which is flawed. And they don't know the exact details, but they know what he's done based on Fury's breifing and Mahr-Vell's description. Considering that only the one Kree on the ship is allowed to know the details, as otherwise they'd all go mad, sounds a bit more serious than the Chitauri or N-Zone folks. Thats what you all keep missing.

Well - apparently only one guy goes mad. And they've all fought they share of crazy men. Also, Gah Lak Tus kills entire planets. The Chitauri dominated the universe, orchestrated World War II, tried to eliminate our sentience, and were about to blow up the entire solar system. I think you're missing that this is Gah Lak Tus and not Galactus. You're bringing too much 616 baggage with you.

Thats true, I just think NO ONE is that cocky given what they know about their foe. None of them are that ignorant or stupid, but all the overly-done humor makes them seem so in a way. Johnny, Ben, or even Tony or Thor, I could maybe expect the overconfidence from, but not Reed or Sue. They're usually the voices of reason, something Ellis didn't address at all about their characters with this issue, and something he should have.

That's fair - Sue's not really addressed. But neither is Ben or Danverse. But I thought Hawkeye, and even Fury, Widow, and Mahr Vehl were appropriately melancholy to balance out Iron Man, Reed, Johnny and Thor.

But this is the point - they don't know anything about Gah Lak Tus except he might be coming to kill the planet. And that know one really knows what it is, except that it kills, and those that do go mad. So Fury is playing it. He's making it more light to get the F4 to do what needs doing. And the light-heartedness is addressed in the issue. You seem to be completely missing the fact that in this issue which you claim is too light-hearted and doesn't take Gah Lak Tus seriously, half of it is characters saying how horrifically they're all gonna die.

But if you thought it was too much - fair enough. I thought Iron Man hitting on Sue was poor as hell, as was Johnny's put down on Mahr Vehl. But I think two misteps isn't enough to harshly criticise the issue. But I do see where you're coming from.






Where you're coming from is wrong, though. :wink:

 

[E]

It makes sense they'd be cocky and not take it seriously. They're overconfident. They're proud. Which is good, because now, they can fall...

But they aren't being cocky. No one is saying, "Pfft - we can do this with our hands tied behind our backs." They're just joking. Nervous joking might even be OK, but it doesn't come across as nervous to me.

 

[Bass]

Well then, you're wrong too.

 

[DIrishB]

Well - apparently only one guy goes mad. And they've all fought they share of crazy men. Also, Gah Lak Tus kills entire planets. The Chitauri dominated the universe, orchestrated World War II, tried to eliminate our sentience, and were about to blow up the entire solar system. I think you're missing that this is Gah Lak Tus and not Galactus. You're bringing too much 616 baggage with you.

Maybe so, but I think you're still ignoring too much of what they do know about Gah Lak Tus.

That's fair - Sue's not really addressed. But neither is Ben or Danverse. But I thought Hawkeye, and even Fury, Widow, and Mahr Vehl were appropriately melancholy to balance out Iron Man, Reed, Johnny and Thor.

That I can agree with, I still just think its inappropriate given the gravity of the situation...and even that is only the little they know about Gah Lak Tus. Either way, the Big G is a much greater threat than anything any of them has faced before...yes, even the Chitauri. After all, they didn't get their own mini-series trilogy.

But this is the point - they don't know anything about Gah Lak Tus except he might be coming to kill the planet.

Its not a "might", its a 99% sure deal. They have no reason to disbelieve Vision, and I think they've been able to track him on his way to Earth.

And that know one really knows what it is, except that it kills, and those that do go mad.

Really, what else do you need to know other than how to kill it.

So Fury is playing it. He's making it more light to get the F4 to do what needs doing. And the light-heartedness is addressed in the issue. You seem to be completely missing the fact that in this issue which you claim is too light-hearted and doesn't take Gah Lak Tus seriously, half of it is characters saying how horrifically they're all gonna die.

The only one complaining about dying is Hawkeye. And Mahr-vell warning about it. None of the FF, Tony, Thor, etc make any such mention. Now you're just putting words into imaginary characters mouths.

But if you thought it was too much - fair enough. I thought Iron Man hitting on Sue was poor as hell, as was Johnny's put down on Mahr Vehl. But I think two misteps isn't enough to harshly criticise the issue. But I do see where you're coming from.

I'm not harshly criticizing the entire issue, just that one aspect of it. It was still much better than Ultimate Iron Man #4.

Where you're coming from is wrong, though. :wink:

Its always wrong, I just somehow rationalize it in my crazy mind. Noodles!

But they aren't being cocky. No one is saying, "Pfft - we can do this with our hands tied behind our backs." They're just joking. Nervous joking might even be OK, but it doesn't come across as nervous to me.

Exactly, a bit of sweating would've addressed that nicely.

 

[Bass]

That I can agree with, I still just think its inappropriate given the gravity of the situation...and even that is only the little they know about Gah Lak Tus. Either way, the Big G is a much greater threat than anything any of them has faced before...yes, even the Chitauri. After all, they didn't get their own mini-series trilogy.

Nick Fury: C'mon, take this seriously, dammit! The Big G'll kill us all.
Thor: I want beer.
Iron Man: I am horny.
Mahr Vehl: Shove it up your noise tube, human germ.
Reed: Yeah. We took on Nihil and you guys defeated the Chitauri. Who cares.
Nick Fury: Neither of those got their own mini-series trilogy.
[terrified silence]
[sweating begins]
Nick Fury: Damn right.
Hawkeye: Oh, **** that.
Nick Fury: 'scuse me?
Hawkeye: So what if he has his own mini-series trilogy? It'll take 700 years before it finishes. So **** the tension. **** the drama. We'll be long dead by the time it matters, am I right guys?
Thor: I want beer.
Iron Man: I am horny.
Mahr Vehl: Shove it up your noise tube, human germ.
Nick Fury: I'm going to kill you one day, Hawkeye, dye my skin white, then blame it on Captain America.
Hawkeye: Beg your pardon?
Nick Fury: Oh nothing. So tell me, how is the family?
Hawkeye: Fine. Do you want to be the godfather to my newborn?
Nick Fury: Oh believe me, she'll see God soon enough.
Hawkeye: I'm sorry?
Nick Fury: You will be... you will be.

Its not a "might", its a 99% sure deal. They have no reason to disbelieve Vision, and I think they've been able to track him on his way to Earth.

You're right actually.

The only one complaining about dying is Hawkeye. And Mahr-vell warning about it. None of the FF, Tony, Thor, etc make any such mention. Now you're just putting words into imaginary characters mouths.

I could've sworn I said that Fury, Hawkeye, and Mahr Vehl were the only ones to say how bad things are getting (and they do) and that the others didn't and that was a good dichotomy in the group. Especially when you note that the "serious" and "light" characters are split up among the teams. So... I'm not making up anything. You could even say Reed mentions Gah Lak Tus' power when he mentions the Fermi paradox.

I'm not harshly criticizing the entire issue, just that one aspect of it. It was still much better than Ultimate Iron Man #4.

And The Sentry #1.

 

[DIrishB]

Nick Fury: C'mon, take this seriously, dammit! The Big G'll kill us all.
Thor: I want beer.
Iron Man: I am horny.
Mahr Vehl: Shove it up your noise tube, human germ.
Reed: Yeah. We took on Nihil and you guys defeated the Chitauri. Who cares.
Nick Fury: Neither of those got their own mini-series trilogy.
[terrified silence]
[sweating begins]
Nick Fury: Damn right.
Hawkeye: Oh, **** that.
Nick Fury: 'scuse me?
Hawkeye: So what if he has his own mini-series trilogy? It'll take 700 years before it finishes. So **** the tension. **** the drama. We'll be long dead by the time it matters, am I right guys?
Thor: I want beer.
Iron Man: I am horny.
Mahr Vehl: Shove it up your noise tube, human germ.
Nick Fury: I'm going to kill you one day, Hawkeye, dye my skin white, then blame it on Captain America.
Hawkeye: Beg your pardon?
Nick Fury: Oh nothing. So tell me, how is the family?
Hawkeye: Fine. Do you want to be the godfather to my newborn?
Nick Fury: Oh believe me, she'll see God soon enough.
Hawkeye: I'm sorry?
Nick Fury: You will be... you will be.

:lol:

You're right actually.

Yes, I am about 99% of the time.

I could've sworn I said that Fury, Hawkeye, and Mahr Vehl were the only ones to say how bad things are getting (and they do) and that the others didn't and that was a good dichotomy in the group. Especially when you note that the "serious" and "light" characters are split up among the teams. So... I'm not making up anything. You could even say Reed mentions Gah Lak Tus' power when he mentions the Fermi paradox.

You just made all that up.

And The Sentry #1.

Wouldn't know, didn't read it.

 

[Doc Comic]

Nick Fury: C'mon, take this seriously, dammit! The Big G'll kill us all.
Thor: I want beer.
Iron Man: I am horny.
Mahr Vehl: Shove it up your noise tube, human germ.
Reed: Yeah. We took on Nihil and you guys defeated the Chitauri. Who cares.
Nick Fury: Neither of those got their own mini-series trilogy.
[terrified silence]
[sweating begins]
Nick Fury: Damn right.
Hawkeye: Oh, **** that.
Nick Fury: 'scuse me?
Hawkeye: So what if he has his own mini-series trilogy? It'll take 700 years before it finishes. So **** the tension. **** the drama. We'll be long dead by the time it matters, am I right guys?
Thor: I want beer.
Iron Man: I am horny.
Mahr Vehl: Shove it up your noise tube, human germ.
Nick Fury: I'm going to kill you one day, Hawkeye, dye my skin white, then blame it on Captain America.
Hawkeye: Beg your pardon?
Nick Fury: Oh nothing. So tell me, how is the family?
Hawkeye: Fine. Do you want to be the godfather to my newborn?
Nick Fury: Oh believe me, she'll see God soon enough.
Hawkeye: I'm sorry?
Nick Fury: You will be... you will be.

You forgot Ben and Johnny highfiving and saying "THOR'S GETTING US BEER!" over and over.

 

[DIrishB]

You forgot Ben and Johnny highfiving and saying "THOR'S GETTING US BEER!" over and over.

And Mahr-Vell wondering whats going to happen to Kate on the next episode of Lost.

 

[Fredrik Martinsson]

Does anything significant happen involving Carol Danvers in this issue?

She goes out to shoot herself in the head. Does that count? (OK. She doesn't mean it but she still says it :wink: )

 

[Guijllons]

You people.

Just read the issue.

When Widow says "fiancé", she's just being, well, hopeful. She's been married numerous times before, she had stated that she had planned to seduce Thor when she first joined the team, she wants to marry Tony and is taking it for granted. It's just like someone saying, "Britney Murphy, she's a right slapper" and me replying "Hey! that's my future wife you're talking about!".

The Lighthearted attitude? The problem is not with the writing, but the acting. Reed loves nothing more than solving puzzles, he's loving this. Tony is a womaniser, he loves nothing more than being around beautiful women. Fury is such a Hannibal and really does "love it when a plan comes together", of course he's enjoying this too.

Ben, Johnny and Thor. Ben and Johnny would be cracking jokes and ribbing each other if they were being hung from the ceiling by their toenails and Thor loves beer, a common ground he has with Ben and Johnny. Mahr Vehl loves this world and is just a really happy guy.

In fact, let's look at the characters used here, they're all happy lighthearted folks. let's look at Ultimate Nightmare, Wolverine is an ex-hitman/test subject, Colossus is a noble giant with issues, Jean is an ex psychiatric patient that is (supposedly) possessed by a supernatural force called the phoenix and is on the verge of a breakdown. Captain America is a Soldier that hasn't cracked an intentional joke once, Falcon is trying to bring people back from the dead and is a hard-*** and Widow is widow and widow is the same in both books.
Ellis was deliberately giving us a lighter tale. Who's in the next part of the trilogy? Well, we know cyclops is in it, he full of laughs? This is drama, this is dynamics he's playing with.

The constant smiles and goofy looks and general comedy feel of the book is purely down to the art, the acting sucks. Imagine how it would look if done by McNiven and then examine how much of it seems like light-hearted comedy and how much is just being wry.

All in all I thought it was a rather good issue writing-wise. It was another set up, sure, but getting from the beginning of the issue to the end in any less time wouldn't have made sense. I hate it when books move too fast, and this slow burn of the story, to the ultimate conclusion is appealing to me.

I rate this issue a 4 out of 5 for the writing, two points less for the art.

Oh, I think someone asked why the Killform's weren't cloaked, I'm not gonna go back and read to see if that was answered. It was because reed hooked something up to uncloak em. There.

 

[Ice]

When Widow says "fiancé", she's just being, well, hopeful. She's been married numerous times before, she had stated that she had planned to seduce Thor when she first joined the team, she wants to marry Tony and is taking it for granted. It's just like someone saying, "Britney Murphy, she's a right slapper" and me replying "Hey! that's my future wife you're talking about!".

It didn't read like that at first, but reading it again, it could be that, too. But I was like "Eh?!" the first time I read the line.

 

[Bass]

Oh, I think someone asked why the Killform's weren't cloaked, I'm not gonna go back and read to see if that was answered. It was because reed hooked something up to uncloak em. There.

I brought that up, and why there were so many. I don't remember him saying that, but I probably missed it.

In any case, I completely agree with you Guij. You said what I said, but with more force. Good for you.

SLAP DOWN THE NONSENSE.​

 

[Rawb]

This issue was okay. I liked it enough to read it twice.

The beer thing was overdone and Tony came off a bit too strong in my opinion but otherwise I didn't find it too light hearted. Most of what Guijillions said hit the nail. (Hit the nail? Does that even make sense? I'm missing something, I know it.) (Crap, now I'm typing like Bendis.)

At any rate, I think the younger members, ie the FF wouldn't be as frightened as the more serious characters like Fury. I mean, well, I can understand there would be a big threat, but most people would see it as somewhat exaggerated. But they aren't normal people. The fear is a tough call, really. I mean on one hand they could be excited for the science or something along those lines, on the other they could be terrified. Meh, I prefer a more balance of the two.

I'm tired and I have no idea if that even made sense. It makes sense to me. In my head.