DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
That's a good point.
Ultimate FF cancelled after 6 issues...
- Thread starter DIrishB
- Start date
That's a good point.
wyokid
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,120
That's actually why I put that in there. I like that there is no actual answer.
the watcher
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2005
- Messages
- 6,530
Not really, I heard the guy that wrote this was a reviewer over at CBR. (Which falls into my theory that Marvel, gave this guy a chance as a punishment for all the negative reviews. That fans have been giving the Ultimate titles for the past few years.) He probably saw your theory and put it to use.
"Nine months pass and a lot of things might possibly have happened that could have changed the character and made him do a complete 180" is a pretty poor storytelling technique.
I might have to read this. I have a strange attraction to such polarizing books
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
Exactly. It's lazy, unimaginative, unrelatable, and unbelievable. If your audience can't understand the motivations of the characters, you're doing a poor job as a writer.
Overall the series isn't bad, but the first and last issues were horrible.
wyokid
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,120
Except Fialkov clearly had all that laid out and was forced to rush to the final issue. I feel like that needs to be put into play and considered.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
Fair enough. But I haven't been impressed by the approach to characterization Fialkov displayed in the previous five issues, so even had he been given the time, I'm not sure it would've come off much better.
I guess it just comes down to the fact that I don't like that they've made Reed "good" again. I liked Reed as a villain. While his transition to being a villain wasn't perfect, it was far and away handled better than Reed's redemption (if it can be called that) that's occurred since Cataclysm. Reed as a villain was a great idea, and presented a truly terrifying, insanely brilliant, formidable opponent.
Now that he's good again, it's just a very close version of the 616 Reed, albeit he temporarily went bad. Sure, Sue and Ben are together and have a kid, instead of Reed and Sue in the 616 universe, but that's not terribly interesting or worthwhile. Besides the lackluster deus ex machina approach to the baby in that last issue.
And that's the whole point of the Ultimate universe: to take the existing and familiar characters, themes, and concepts of the 616 universe and do something different. Unfortunately, in the past few years, they've largely abandoned that approach and have aimed for it being a lame copy of the old 616, before the Ultimate approach was adopted in the main universe.
Making Reed a "good guy" again was a terrible idea, and largely pointless, uninspired, and unnecessary. It sucks.
wyokid
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,120
I liked Reed as a bad guy...to an extent. I loved Ultimate Doomsday and was really looking forward to seeing where that went but then Hickman came in and made him so pretentious and boring. He was just retelling his Future Foundation story from Fantastic Four (he even confirmed on Formspring that the Children were, in fact, Ultimate Future Foundation) and that SO did not interest me the first time around and then he came on The Ultimates and did it again. Yes, the stories were different but both Reed's had the same motivation and it just killed the book for me. Then he added Jessica Drew to the team and, along with the other women, didn't do anything. Then came the moment that made me hate his run. The last time we had a good Hulk smash was in Ultimate X (don't even get me started on Hickman's handling of them) and that was so long ago and was pretty short. Then we got it. "HULK SMASH! HULK SMASH! HULK...talk out his problems". UGH. Then Sam Humphries came in and made the book SO much better. In came the faux American patriotic Cap of Millar's run (while still staying true to the new reformed Cap that had been growing since Ultimate Captain America) in came old Reed (Doomsday Reed) and I loved it. Hulk even got an awesome Giant Hulk moment. So badass. Loved Humphries run. Was it the greatest? No, but it was fun and definitely more entertaining than the snorefest before it. Then Fialkov went back to Reed and it was a mixture of Hickman and Doomsday Reed but it and Cataclysm felt like he was waiting for his real story to begin. It's a shame that story only lasted six issues. Cataclysm definitely planted the seeds of Reed's redemption and I feel like had we gotten ALL of Ultimate FF we would have gotten a really great story. Oh well, there's always flashbacks.
Last edited:
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
I think the point of the Ultimate U was actually to retell the stories for a new generation. I remember reading an interview with Bendis where someone had suggested that Aunt May die instead of Uncle Ben in Ultimate Spider-Man and his response was something along the lines of "Spider-Man's story isn't broken. It still works, we don't need to change it, just retell it for a modern audience." Which they did well for a while, but then the retelling became rehashing old stories and it started to feel stale. So they turned to their go-to gimmick: a cycle of 'events' and 'all new' beginnings. In that cycle, some cool and different things happened (like making Reed a villain), but I don't think doing things differently was the original point of the Ultimate U. That's "What If...?"
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
What's the difference between retelling and rehashing? And by that regard, Thor's story in 616, or Cap's, etc weren't broken, but their characters were largely altered. Even to a "What If...?" capacity.
^ This. Exactly.
I'm okay with the point of the UU being both "modernization" and "doing something different". The worst/most boring Ultimate stuff is split pretty evenly between transplanting a character's story into the 21st century and change for the sake of change, as is the most interesting/successful stuff. I think it really depends on the character, story, and/or author in question, and there's no really clear answer. In fact, the line between the two isn't exactly clear - many times, modernizing a character or concept has required significant change.
However, Ultimate "events" have sucked approximately 100% percent of the time. That's one concept that did NOT need to come into the UU.
However, Ultimate "events" have sucked approximately 100% percent of the time. That's one concept that did NOT need to come into the UU.
Last edited:
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Retelling is taking the story, keeping it's heart, but changing the details to suit the new audience.
Ultimate Spider-Man was still recognizable as Spider-Man, but he worked for the Daily Bugle as a web designer rather than a photographer, MJ was his friend right from the beginning, and his origin as Spider-Man was tied into Oscorp and the metahuman arms race.
Ultimate Thor wasn't that different that 616 Thor. For the first few years of Thor comics, Thor was just a man named Donald Blake who found the enchanted walking stick that gave him Thor's powers. Then later on Odin revealed to him that he actually WAS Thor, but that he had been stripped of his powers and memories so he could learn compassion and responsibility and become worthy of his power. The Ultimates took that concept and ran with it. They made us wonder if Thor was just a man with incredible powers, or really Thor. If a Norse god showed up today, what would he be like? How would people react to him? Would we believe him?
Rehashing is telling all the old 616 stories again "ultimate style." Ultimate Dark Phoenix, Ultimate Thanos, Ultimate Diablo. This was when the Ultimate line started to decline. Nothing felt fresh any more because they were just taking known stories and rewriting them. So they tried to make it fresh again by drowning everyone.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Last edited:
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
That's fair.
Way, way too much of that. Particularly in UXM and later issues of USM (around Ultimate Carnage or so).
Ultimate Galactus was an event and was pretty good, I'd say. Aside from Tom Raney polluting Secret with his terrible art.
:lol:
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Clearly you don't understand how online forum discussions are supposed to work. Specifically discussions about comic books.
You're supposed to flame me now and tell me all the reasons I'm wrong without actually showing me why I'm wrong.
Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
Your wrong cause our canadien and smell like moose poo
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
You're wrong, just because.
While he did well in Chemistry, Houde failed basic English.
Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
I WAS PRETENDING TO BE A TROLL
Ass.
Ass.
