Ultimate Fantastic Four #16 Discussion (Spoilers)

[E]

Thing and Reed think they're about to die... then there's a pause. They're not dead. Annihilus is confused. Thing is confused. REED is confused. "Huh. That's odd."

It could be quite a funny scene.

Heh - I'm expecting something basically like that.

 

[Bass]

God, we're better than Warren Ellis aren't we?

 

[Goodwill]

Not hardly.

I just got the issue and I was happy with the progression, but I was a little taken a back with Nihil and the rest of the aliens. This is certainly taking a step back, isn't it? I mean, it's really out there and it's taking a completely different direction from what the first issues introduced... I don't really know whether or not I like that.

 

[Guijllons]

I understand that concern, and I had it myself. But I do feel as though the N-zone has to have some dynamic interest. The FF are a science team, they are going to encounter things which are not the norm. I did have bigger issue over the big monster that crawled up from underground in the moleman arc, that felt a bit silly. But the N-zone is more like a playground where a writer can get away with being a little silly because it is a totally self contained micro-environment.

 

[DIrishB]

Personally, the only way I see Reed and Ben surviving the cliffhanger ending of #16 is that Sue shows up and wraps a force field around their heads, allowing them to breathe within it for long enough to get back to the ship. Just my theory.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Personally, the only way I see Reed and Ben surviving the cliffhanger ending of #16 is that Sue shows up and wraps a force field around their heads, allowing them to breathe within it for long enough to get back to the ship. Just my theory.

I feel so stupid. Why didn't we originally think of that?

 

[supermusli]

Okay, here my two cents.
I liked the issue, probably the best one so far of UFF. Sure, the pace is slower than a snail on glue, but that doesn´t bother me. I find the characters interaction with one another the most interesting thing about this series anyways, and i also enjoy all the science talk. This issue makes me wish Ellis would stay on this title a while longer (although I´m sure Millar will make something fun with UFF too).

The nicest moment in #16 IMO, was when Reed asked Ben to accompany him to talk to Nihilus, and to keep him from getting sucked into a conversation. I like how Reed is very alienated from the world around him, and how he realizes this, and his dependancy of his friends. This group is evolving into a fine little Ultimate family, indeed.

 

[Goodwill]

Personally, the only way I see Reed and Ben surviving the cliffhanger ending of #16 is that Sue shows up and wraps a force field around their heads, allowing them to breathe within it for long enough to get back to the ship. Just my theory.

The first thing I thought about was they would survive because of their changes. This would be a good way to explain and have some closure as to what they were doing in the N-Zone in the first place. If they found out that it was indeed the N-Zone's environment that changed them than it would be far more scientific and smart rather just have a fight between Nihil and the Four.

Also, I liked the little comment Reed had about all of the people he encountered now were all taking what mysteries were out there for granted. I think this is a good theme for the current state of the title.

 

[Bass]

I feel so stupid. Why didn't we originally think of that?

That was the first thing I said. I just said; "I think Sue's there."

 

[ourchair]

But the N-zone is more like a playground where a writer can get away with being a little silly because it is a totally self contained micro-environment.

Great observation, yo. That totally explains how ripe with story potential the N-Zone is, but at the same time that clever observation also makes me see why people would have a problem with having the N-Zone become overused as a source of villains: It's an overflowing well/untapped mine of wacky pseudo science from which all the paranormal and superhuman can come from and as such, could be easily abused as the explanation for everything.

The flip side of the coin is that the N-Zone could be justified as the equivalent of Buffy the Vampire Slayer's Hellmouth (the center of earth that draws all supernatural and demonic forces to it) but it takes a difficult balancing act to be able to avoid it becoming hokey or uncomfortably convenient.

 

[ourchair]

Shortly after I finished reading UFF 16, the ending seems pretty self-evident, and it seems that everyone here has pretty good ideas as well. (However, if I'm all wrong feel free to laugh in my face and toss monkey poop my way)

I think the idea of Ben and Reed can be synthesized this way:

First, if Reed has a pliable bacterial stack that draws all of his nutrients out of the air, he is essentially eating through the air. The thing is, it's NEVER been specified what the limitations of that system is. Does he need to breath just oxygen or does he synthesize gases --- nitrogen, CO2, oxygen, hydrogen --- into the complex forms his body needs? That could make sesne, since as far as I know carbohydrates, amino acids and other nutritional needs are made out of those core elements.

Even Sue helps out by saying in # 15, "Not a whole lot of complex particles. Not a lot of hot spots. Textbook late entropic system." Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but if a universe is decaying, doesn't that mean that life and matter on it are decaying as well? Meaning that Reed would be able to "eat" the air of that system just as easily as he would back in our universe?

As for Ben, Sue remarks that she's absolutely unsure as to how Ben is even capable of breathing. "He weighs like, half a ton, how does he inflate his lungs?" There isn't any more explanation than that but what if Ben doesn't even need to breathe? What if his blood consumes something else to feed his organs? What if Ben breathes through his petridermis?

The thing is that while the N-Zone has already been explored as a catalyst for genetic and quantum change, it has only revealed to us the "changed forms" of the Fantastic within the context of our own universe. Which means we still don't know how their powers work within the N-Zone and the very unpredictability of that is made even more definite by Johnny's condition.

 

[DIrishB]

Bass wrote:

That was the first thing I said. I just said; "I think Sue's there."

Yes, and I agreed and compounded the idea by saying she wrapped a force field around their heads so they could breathe, each containing just enough air for them to dash back to the ship.


ourchair wrote:

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but if a universe is decaying, doesn't that mean that life and matter on it are decaying as well? Meaning that Reed would be able to "eat" the air of that system just as easily as he would back in our universe?

Good point, though does that mean Johnny's reached a point of "maximum decay" since his powers have burned out? hehe

So either they won't be affected by the poisonous (at least to normal humans) atmosphere, or Sue's there to wrap some force bubbles around their heads. I'd be really impressed if Ellis managed to surprise us as to how they survive, but those seem like the only two likely answers.

 

[Bass]

Yes, and I agreed and compounded the idea by saying she wrapped a force field around their heads so they could breathe, each containing just enough air for them to dash back to the ship.

Don't try to calm me down. You have only compounded your folly. YOU HAVE INCURRED MY WRATH!

Ah, but I love the Irish accent. I am torn.

Speaking of torn; the Sue thing vs the "they can actually breathe the atmosphere due to their fantastic biology". I dunno which to root for.

 

[Guijllons]

I'm with the atmosphere thing.

since I said it ages ago, though without as much charm, charisma nor thinkythinkystuff

 

[E]

Oooh, I say the Sue thing. Less imaginitive but I'd rather have that then more unnecessary mumbo-jumbo. As interesting as the explanations are behind Reed and Johnny, it has always seemed unneccessary to me.

 

[Guijllons]

I just don't think sue would leave johnny at this point.

 

[ourchair]

Bass wrote:Good point, though does that mean Johnny's reached a point of "maximum decay" since his powers have burned out? hehe

Well, I think it just means that he's burnt out all his fat cells really damn quickly. Assuming he's only eating "normally" since we haven't seen him trying to load up on carbo and fat then he's already over exerted himself by pulling a Nova Flame back in the Doom arc.

The force bubble isn't unlikely and actually IS a logical explanation for their survival. It just seems too much of a cop-out for such a cliffhanger ending. I like the atmosphere thing because it's so wacky.

 

[compound]

Well, I think it just means that he's burnt out all his fat cells really damn quickly. Assuming he's only eating "normally" since we haven't seen him trying to load up on carbo and fat then he's already over exerted himself by pulling a Nova Flame back in the Doom arc.

I think you mentioned this before, in person -- initially, Ellis' "burning fat cells" explanation for Johnny's powers seemed like an ideal in-story justification for him behaving like a stereotypical "lad" type guy: excessive boozing, lots of deep-fried meats, the whole testosterone-driven, FHM-reading, Man Show shebang. Now, after the current arc, it seems absoluely *imperative* that he should live like a slob to survive.

It's the same kind of playful inversion that Ellis was going for when he created The Authority's Jack Hawksmoor, I think -- he needed air pollution and crowded urban eniveronments, in order to stay alive. And, in a perverse way, so did Spider in Transmet, becuase he really couldn't function as a person without the chaos of The City.

I assume Millar or Carey will use this as a cue to explore the notions of cliched "masculine" behavior through Johnny. It would be a shame to just see this subplot dropped when Ellis leaves the book.

 

[Guijllons]

Certainly, though 'wacky' is a word I'd never, ever use.
I forget who mentioned it, but the scene of Reed and Ben looking at each other wondering why they're not dead, and nihil looking at them wondering why they're not dead seems very cool for the series. It makes sense.

 

[ourchair]

Certainly, though 'wacky' is a word I'd never, ever use.
I forget who mentioned it, but the scene of Reed and Ben looking at each other wondering why they're not dead, and nihil looking at them wondering why they're not dead seems very cool for the series. It makes sense.

Yeah, I totally LMAOed over it. if that is absolutely on the mark then when UFF 17 comes out I guess it won't be as funny anymore since we'll have like five weeks to dwell on it.