Ultimate Controversy

[moonmaster]

I do believe he was a Nazi. Hitlers second in command, or some nonsense like that.

Hitler's bellboy, actually.


Yes, I said "Hitler's bellboy."

 

[nigma]

Comic books should be more than just entertainment.

thats one reasons i read comic books is to get away from real life.

I'm not being a bigot but it's history...

History has a werid way of repeating itself. I don't see any villians or hero's coming form anywhere else in the world where the United states has a foot in at the current moment (see bold). this is a list of all wars going on in the world.

Current Conflicts
Algeria Insurgency 1992 -->
Angola Cabinda 1975 -->
Burma Insurgency 1950 -->
Burundi Civil Conflict 1993 -->
China Senkaku Islands 1968 -->
China Spratly Islands 1988 -->
Colombia Insurgencies 1970s-->
Congo (Zaire) Congo War 1998-->
Georgia Civil War 1991-->
India Assam 1985 -->
India Kashmir 1970s-->
India Naxalite Uprising 1967 -->
Indonesia Aceh 1986 -->
Indonesia Kalimantan 1983 -->
Indonesia Maluku 1999 -
Indonesia Papua / West Irian 1963 -->
Israel Al-Aqsa Intifada 2000 -->
Ivory Coast Civil War 2002 -->
Korea Korean War 1953 -->
Laos Hmong Insurgency 2000 -->
Liberia Civil War 1999 -->
Moldova Transdniester 1991-->
Namibia Caprivi Strip 1966-->
Nepal Maoists 1996 -->
Nigeria Civil Disturbances 1997 -
Pakistan Baluchistan 2004 -
Peru Shining Path 1970s-->
Philippines Moro Uprising 1970s-->
Russia Chechen Uprising 1992 -->
Somalia Civil War 1991-->
Spain Basque Uprising 1970s-->
Sudan Darfur 1983 -->
Thailand Islamic Rebels 2001 -->
Turkey Kurdistan 1984 -->
Uganda Civil Conflict 1980 -->
United States Afghanistan 1980 -->
United States Djibouti 2001 -->
United States Iraq 1990 -->
United States Philippines 1898 -->
Uzbekistan Civil Disturbances 2005 -->
Yemen Sheik al-Houti 2004 -->

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Ok, I know some of us aren't from America but isn't that where these comics come from? I mean they're going to be Americanized... that's why I think there should be villains from these conflicts. Nig, you can't read comics to get away from real life. That's unhealthy.

 

[Parthuman]

Who's version of real life are you talking about? I think the comix, 'specially the Ultimates, do a fine job reflecting the world as many perception people perceive it to be. And when you see Cap, Thor and the rest of the moral core of the UU take down the Bush-Fury axis, you'll see. This whole thing is all about the "duh, I was only following orders" line of thinking totally upended.

Unless, allah forbid, I'm wrong.

 

[Parthuman]

Not being from America is no excuse for not wanting a villain from a far more diverse region than America, namely the Middle East.

Why not a villain from Africa? Or a hero? Just take Nigeria, 10th most populous country in the world and 7th leading OPEC member. How many ethnic groups? Duh, Africans, you say? Try 220 distinct peoples. How in the hell can you generalize into heroes and villains?

 

[MaxwellSmart]

When I think of a villain from the middle east I'm thinking of someone who's Arab. But not Iraqi I feel like they shouldn't draw to many parallels to the war in Iraq, but more importantly someone who is an Islamic extremist, someone whose motivations are religious not political. I think that they need to be portrayed as someone who sees the Ultimates as being agents of evil who must be destroyed, not a butcher who murders innocent civilians, like the suicide bombers of Iraq. It would be bigoted to portray the villain that way.

 

[Widdle Wade]

Muslims arent always arab...I mean My father is from Libya North Africa, and hes a berber, arabised we were but were not ethincally arab...we look very much different....some of us are muslim, some of us have choosen not to be...Afghanistanis and pakistanis are not arab, neither are Malaysians. Nigerians are also prodominately Muslim....are they arab, nope. So if you want to take an extreme view on Islam and put it on a character, that character could be from any country....and believe me that rings truer, than making an arab a villain...

 

[MaxwellSmart]

The main reason I think the character should be an arab muslim is that most islamic extremist groups are arab(i.e. Islamic Jihad, Al-Qaeda, and Hezbollah). The story would also heavily involve the Ultimate's role in the Middle East.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I think it should be some sort of Demon who inspires his whorshippers to do his bidding. That would be fitting considering the reason these terrorists do what they do is because they believe that they're beliefs will save them in the end... it always comes down to religion.

 

[nigma]

Ok, I know some of us aren't from America but isn't that where these comics come from? I mean they're going to be Americanized... that's why I think there should be villains from these conflicts. Nig, you can't read comics to get away from real life. That's unhealthy.

I was going to reply to this earlier but the UC server freaked out after I posted in the x-3 thread...and its not unhealthy, I read comics to know that my life is somewhat normal, and it could be worse.

The main reason I think the character should be an arab muslim is that most islamic extremist groups are arab(i.e. Islamic Jihad, Al-Qaeda, and Hezbollah). The story would also heavily involve the Ultimate's role in the Middle East.

You can thank American and British media for that. I can't even make a list of all the organization in the world man; I think there's something like about 75 in India alone.

Muslims arent always arab...I mean My father is from Libya North Africa, and hes a berber, arabised we were but were not ethincally arab...we look very much different....some of us are muslim, some of us have choosen not to be...Afghanistanis and pakistanis are not arab, neither are Malaysians. Nigerians are also prodominately Muslim....are they arab, nope. So if you want to take an extreme view on Islam and put it on a character, that character could be from any country....and believe me that rings truer, than making an arab a villain...

Nice points, and its like saying you want a villain from Asia, an ASIAN villain. what type of Asian?, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnam, Korean, Indian, Paki, Nepal, the Fiji islands, Russia ect...

or like saying you want a European villain, form where? England, German, France, UK, Russia (could go either way), Ireland, ect....

 

[TheCell]

An generalized islamic villain? What next, a crazed wiccan?

Not being rude, but seriously. A villain should be more about who he is, not where he's from. Sure, region can affect your point of view, but it's not all that affects you. You have parents, friends, PEOPLE ENTERING YOUR COUNTRY, and many other events that can change your life. The bad part about msny americans is that they don't look at it from their point of view. If someone came to america and started trying to help us, most americans would find it insulting and probably a threat.

Maybe we could simply take a villain and ultimize him into an iraqi. Anyone else think absorbing man would make a really cool uber-religious muslim? lol

On a side not, I think Cap should meet silver samurai, or someone similar, who has honor, but just does things differently. Maybe even help cap to the realisation that something is wrong with his government.

 

[Patriot Mk2]

On a side not, I think Cap should meet silver samurai, or someone similar, who has honor, but just does things differently. Maybe even help cap to the realisation that something is wrong with his government.

Agreed.And this thread is just ridiculous.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

An generalized islamic villain? What next, a crazed wiccan?

Not being rude, but seriously. A villain should be more about who he is, not where he's from. Sure, region can affect your point of view, but it's not all that affects you. You have parents, friends, PEOPLE ENTERING YOUR COUNTRY, and many other events that can change your life. The bad part about msny americans is that they don't look at it from their point of view. If someone came to america and started trying to help us, most americans would find it insulting and probably a threat.

The idea of this character is not that of an Iraq insurgent that Cap. has to beat up to show how much better the US is than any Arab country. It's more of a character who sees himself as a holy warrior and sees Cap. and everything he stands for as evil. And btw Islamic doesn't mean that they're from an Arab country it means that they're Muslim. And btw it's wicca not not wiccan.

On a side not, I think Cap should meet silver samurai, or someone similar, who has honor, but just does things differently. Maybe even help cap to the realisation that something is wrong with his government.

I like this idea. Cap. definitely needs a reality check.

 

[TheCell]

The idea of this character is not that of an Iraq insurgent that Cap. has to beat up to show how much better the US is than any Arab country. It's more of a character who sees himself as a holy warrior and sees Cap. and everything he stands for as evil. And btw Islamic doesn't mean that they're from an Arab country it means that they're Muslim. And btw it's wicca not not wiccan.

Just saw this thread up again and felt the odd urge to post (don't know why)

1. If they practice wicca, they're a wiccan. Just like someone who practices christianity is a christian.

2. In a strange sense, Loki is a religious freak. Thor as well, and he was portrayed as a villain for a few issues. I know islamic doesn't mean Arab. They were talking about the Terrorists who were doing this for religious purposes.

3. Lastly, lets stick to good villains. We should not make a villain for the sole purpose to communicate to future generations about the troubled times we were in. Thats what history class is for. Like I said before, lets just ultimize a villain into the "enemy" if it is really needed that bad.

 

[ourchair]

Well, originally Ultimate Captain America got his super soldier serum during the Gulf War.

I don't think people today fully understand the difference between the Middle Eastern villains of our time and the Nazis of WWII.

Firstly, terrorism, Hussein and others are nowhere near the same kind of threat as the Nazis, Japanese and the Russians during WWII. The axis was capable of almost ruling the world through it's military campaign - compared to Iraq or Al-Qaeda or whomever you wish to claim is a threat who are incapable of a military invasion of American soil. To create a villain for the purposes of demonstrating the 'war' against the Middle East of the same scale as the Red Skull would be unfair.

Also, what is even more reprehensible is the concept of having a "Middle Eastern" villain to represent Hussein, terrorism and so forth.

The Red Skull represented Germany and the Nazis - not Europe. If you want an Iraqi villain to demonstrate that conflict (which will be little more than propaganda) then I can understand the desire. If you want a Saudi, I understand. But the sheer generalisation of a "Middle Eastern" villain is horrendously prejudiced and bigoted. That concept includes not only Iraq but but also Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, India (though I suppose you could argue Asia in their case to some extent), Israel, Palestine, Dubei, Brunei, Iran, Syria... all of these countries are unique and individual, and cannot and should not be painted with the same brush, just as you would not paint Britain, Germany, Spain, Italy, and France with the same brush.

I understand that you do not mean to be offensive or insulting, but while I can understand the desire for a contemporary villain that represents the turmoil with the current Middle Eastern regions, namely Iraq, please keep such suggestions to the countries and to the actual players in this 'war', and not to entire demographics of an entire continent and the people who populate it because they share similar geography.

Excellent point.

However, this sound reasoning has only affected my thoughts backwards.

Where it is wrong to lump all Middle Eastern demographics together simply because of geography, I'd like to see it done to Asia.

In other words, fictional analogues to North Korea should generalize all of Asia. As in if Iraq = "Middle East" ergo Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey then Korea = "Asia" ergo Philippines.

That's right, I'm fully in support of misrepresenting Asian countries as wannabe nuclear powers not sanctioned by the U.N.

Because I'm an *******.