Ultimate Casting

ourchair said:
I have no idea why people are so keen on perpetuating the idea of Ultimate Hawkeye as being so badass he can't have anything else but a badass play him in a movie. That line of logic makes him a one-note character lost in a sea of other bad-asses like Widow and Cap.
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I think you're taking those posts a bit too seriously. That isn't what anyone was saying.

It's already been clearly established that while Hawkeye is no less competent than his contemporary's in SHIELD's little supergroup, he is also very much a family man who'd rather spend time with his family than making the rounds on the late night talk show circuit.

And when things go crazy, he understands that he is but a man in an insane world of superhumans. A super spy who keeps his cool even while he is internally overwhelmed by the chaos of widescreen destruction around him.

He's either an man gone insane in a world of conflic or a conflicted man in a world gone insane. So who else could play him but Kiefer Sutherland of 24?

No question about it, Kiefer can do bad-*** AND soft-hearted humanity and manage to juxtapose the two elements such that they work in the same person.
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Despite Kiefer really not looking much like him at all. I know, I know, its a comic book and the role could be filled by just about any white guy, but this is all supposition anyway. Besides, most people don't go into as much detail and meticulous thought-process as you do in terms of the casting (using your seemingly vast reservoir of movie knowledge), and are mostly just picking people based on how closely they resemble the character and if they'd be competent in pulling off the role. While that might be short-sighted from a casting director's standpoint, it still doesn't stop it from happening often. We're not really talking only who, from an acting only standpoint, would be perfect for the role, but also a physical standpoint.

Hawkeye is a much younger guy, early 30's at best, in very good shape. Sutherland is a guy, late 40's at best, who smokes a pack of cigarettes a day and sounds exactly like it. I really can't picture him in the role at all. And while that line is physically-based only, and not taking into account if he could pull off the acting portion believable (which I'm sure he can), I still think its fair. Because really, the actor not only has to fill the role, but look the part. Sutherland doesn't, sorry. And sure, he could work out intensively for months, slim down and tone up for it, but his face would still be off. Maybe I'm holding to Hitch's renditions a bit too much, but I just don't see Sutherland when I look or think of Ultimate Hawkeye, in much the same way I don't think or see anyone else but Sam Jackson when I see Ultimate Nick Fury, or Johnny Depp with Iron Man.

However, I can see Jason Statham in the role, as he not only physically looks the part, and is already a very competent athlete and martial artist, but who I really don't think is incapable of taking on the role and giving a believable performance if it came right down to it. Its not like he's carrying the movie on that character's shoulders alone, and really while his past roles haven't been major stretches, who's to say he couldn't surprise us all?
 
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Pandrio said:
You seperated it as a seperate clause with the comma.
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Yes, I know, I should have inserted "who" before the comma, but you're really going to have to get over pointing out these small typos and contribute a little more man. You and I both know what I meant, and its readily available to everyone else what I meant.

I'll be sure to let you proof-read my next essay, but in the meantime you've beaten this to death. You're getting like JQP with his schtick of altering member names.
 
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DIrishB said:
Yes, I know, I should have inserted "who" before the comma, but you're really going to have to get over pointing out these small typos and contribute a little more man. You and I both know what I meant, and its readily available to everyone else what I meant.

I'll be sure to let you proof-read my next essay, but in the meantime you've beaten this to death. You're getting like JQP with his schtick of altering member names.
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:oops:Sorry, didn't think the joke was that old yet.
*Writes mental note to self: stop correcting*
The above post is not sarcasm or any of the sort.
 
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DIrishB said:
Besides, most people don't go into as much detail and meticulous thought-process as you do in terms of the casting (using your seemingly vast reservoir of movie knowledge), and are mostly just picking people based on how closely they resemble the character and if they'd be competent in pulling off the role. While that might be short-sighted from a casting director's standpoint, it still doesn't stop it from happening often. We're not really talking only who, from an acting only standpoint, would be perfect for the role, but also a physical standpoint.
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Honestly, this is how I do my casting call. I take a dozen or so candidates and run them THROUGH MY HEAD like they were auditioning for the role. I literally have them walk into a room INSIDE MY HEAD without makeup or wardrobe and just make them read a few choice scenes and if they can convince IN MY HEAD. I usually analyze their cinematic resume AFTER the fact.

DIrishB said:
Hawkeye is a much younger guy, early 30's at best, in very good shape. Sutherland is a guy, late 40's at best, who smokes a pack of cigarettes a day and sounds exactly like it.
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Actually, Kiefer's role as Jack Bauer on 24 is pegged as being in his mid-to-late thirties making him a bit younger than he actually is. Age is a mutable concept in the movies, so I really don't care for the actor's exact age so much as his cinematic age range. I mean, Sean Connery wasn't even old enough to play Harrison Ford's dad in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, nor is Brian Cox much older than Bruce Davison to declare in X-2: X-Men United that he was 'leading black ops missions into fields of North Vietnam while you were sucking on your mommy's tit at Woodstock'.

DIrishB said:
I think you're taking those posts a bit too seriously. That isn't what anyone was saying.
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I don't mean just in the casting call discussions but all posts regarding Hawkeye. I just think its awfully one dimensional to focus on his bad-assery.

However, I'm not faulting your choice of Statham at all. I actually think he's suited for the role and if he walked into my imaginary Hollywood office and pulled off a great screen test, I'd give him the role in a heartbeat. I don't even think the accent is a problem, either, and would encourage him to keep it since it gives the character a unique flavor that wasn't in the original material.

I'm not necessarily casting AGAINST other people's choices, in the same way that casting Hugh Jackman as Wolverine doesn't necessarily imply that Dougray Scott was less competent or that casting Tobey Maguire is a definitive knock against Leonardo DiCaprio.
 
ourchair said:
Honestly, this is how I do my casting call. I take a dozen or so candidates and run them THROUGH MY HEAD like they were auditioning for the role. I literally have them walk into a room INSIDE MY HEAD without makeup or wardrobe and just make them read a few choice scenes and if they can convince IN MY HEAD. I usually analyze their cinematic resume AFTER the fact.
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So you're schizophrenic?

Actually, Kiefer's role as Jack Bauer on 24 is pegged as being in his mid-to-late thirties making him a bit younger than he actually is. Age is a mutable concept in the movies, so I really don't care for the actor's exact age so much as his cinematic age range. I mean, Sean Connery wasn't even old enough to play Harrison Ford's dad in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, nor is Brian Cox much older than Bruce Davison to declare in X-2: X-Men United that he was 'leading black ops missions into fields of North Vietnam while you were sucking on your mommy's tit at Woodstock'.
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Good point, but I still have a hard time picturing Sutherland as Hawkeye in any respect.

I don't mean just in the casting call discussions but all posts regarding Hawkeye. I just think its awfully one dimensional to focus on his bad-assery.
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I completely agree, which is why I enjoyed the softer side of the character illustrated by Millar with Hawkeye's concern for his family (even way before they all got popped). It added a nice, yet simple, "family man" dynamic to someone who otherwise is just a bad-***. ;)

However, I'm not faulting your choice of Statham at all. I actually think he's suited for the role and if he walked into my imaginary Hollywood office and pulled off a great screen test, I'd give him the role in a heartbeat. I don't even think the accent is a problem, either, and would encourage him to keep it since it gives the character a unique flavor that wasn't in the original material.
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True. I'd personally have him work on getting rid of the accent, but I can appreciate the reasoning for keeping it. Course, I'm not sure how that would affect the likelyhood of him being a high-ranking officer in an American intelligence and espionage agency.

I'm not necessarily casting AGAINST other people's choices, in the same way that casting Hugh Jackman as Wolverine doesn't necessarily imply that Dougray Scott was less competent or that casting Tobey Maguire is a definitive knock against Leonardo DiCaprio.
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I know. :)
 
DIrishB said:
I completely agree, which is why I enjoyed the softer side of the character illustrated by Millar with Hawkeye's concern for his family (even way before they all got popped). It added a nice, yet simple, "family man" dynamic to someone who otherwise is just a bad-***.
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Interestingly enough, Millar relies on a lot of expository dialogue or visuals to communicate this fact. I'm beginning to wonder if Millar even knows the meaning of the word subtle. :p

DIrishB said:
True. I'd personally have him work on getting rid of the accent, but I can appreciate the reasoning for keeping it. Course, I'm not sure how that would affect the likelyhood of him being a high-ranking officer in an American intelligence and espionage agency.
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Well, my reasoning is that Statham-Hawkeye would be an Englishman who changed his citizenship, and I sincerely doubt that the U.S. military would care what his original nationality or ethnicity was. I mean they've got a Norwegian former nurse turned so-called psychopath, an Asian insect-lady and a Russian femme fatale on their team.

DIrishB said:
So you're schizophrenic?
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No, it means I have a nano-sized or rather pico-sized Hollywood studio INSIDE my head. And yes, Robert Downey Jr. is STILL not allowed on the studio premises. Not after what he did to that security guard with that beer bottle.
 
ourchair said:
Interestingly enough, Millar relies on a lot of expository dialogue or visuals to communicate this fact. I'm beginning to wonder if Millar even knows the meaning of the word subtle. :p
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According to some fans, they think his subtle (sort of) showing of Fury and Betty holding hands right before the attack meant they were in love...I think he's at least capable of being more subtle than that.

Well, my reasoning is that Statham-Hawkeye would be an Englishman who changed his citizenship, and I sincerely doubt that the U.S. military would care what his original nationality or ethnicity was. I mean they've got a Norwegian former nurse turned so-called psychopath, an Asian insect-lady and a Russian femme fatale on their team.
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First of all, Wasp is Asian-American. Secondly, Hawkeye was a high-ranking SHIELD officer long before the Ultimates came into being. Thirdly, while Black Widow and Thor are indeed from other countries, they were considered only for their extra-ordinary abilities...though I guess that also applies to Hawkeye. Still, post 9/11 (or the Magneto attack equivalent), even the Ultimate universe version of America must be incredibly wary about bringing foreign citizens (or at least former foreign citizens) into high-ranking intelligence positions. And as far as I know from the books, Thor, Wasp, nor Widow (or the rest of the public team for that matter) had access to those very important security codes (hence Widow not just giving them to her allies and needing to kidnap Hawkeye to get them).

No, it means I have a nano-sized or rather pico-sized Hollywood studio INSIDE my head. And yes, Robert Downey Jr. is STILL not allowed on the studio premises. Not after what he did to that security guard with that beer bottle.
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How's that any different than some homeless dude on a street corner who says Jesus lives in his head?
 
DIrishB said:
According to some fans, they think his subtle (sort of) showing of Fury and Betty holding hands right before the attack meant they were in love...I think he's at least capable of being more subtle than that.

DIrishB said:
First of all, Wasp is Asian-American.
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Yeah, I know, I just meant to point out how the eclectic mix of nationalities, personalities, ethnicities and such make whether or not Hawkeye has a British accent rather moot. :D

DIrishB said:
Secondly, Hawkeye was a high-ranking SHIELD officer long before the Ultimates came into being.
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I took that into account. The line about SHIELD being just him and Fury and a drinks tab trying to bring down the Soviet Union means he's been part of the American military for at least fifteen years.

DIrishB said:
Still, post 9/11 (or the Magneto attack equivalent), even the Ultimate universe version of America must be incredibly wary about bringing foreign citizens (or at least former foreign citizens) into high-ranking intelligence positions.

And as far as I know from the books, Thor, Wasp, nor Widow (or the rest of the public team for that matter) had access to those very important security codes (hence Widow not just giving them to her allies and needing to kidnap Hawkeye to get them).
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Good point. It's also supported by the fact that Thor, Widow and the Two Incestuous Muties also seem to have very tenuously defined roles on the team, like outsourced labor or something. :p

DIrishB said:
How's that any different than some homeless dude on a street corner who says Jesus lives in his head?
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Pffft. Jesus is a spook tale they use to frighten vineyard owners and winemakers.
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I recently changed my mind.....

I want Aaron Eckhart as Capt America.

After watching "Thank You For Smoking" I am convinced that he can carry a movie. And after watching "Paycheck" I know he can handle the physical aspect if Affleck can.

Put him on a training regimine that mixes Will Smith's for "Ali" and Brad Pitt for "Troy".
 
I'm not sure he seems a bit too old, we need someone that can pull of early twenties, cause thats what Cap was during WWII
 
Ultimates

Captain America - Jason David Frank
Nick Fury - Samuel L. Jackson
Iron Man - James Marsters
Thor - HHH from wwe
Bruce Banner -Sean Maher

Ultimate Spiderman

Spiderman/Peter Parker -Jonathan Taylor Thomas
MJ - Amy Davidson
 
Random said:
I'm not sure he seems a bit too old, we need someone that can pull of early twenties, cause thats what Cap was during WWII
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They say he's early 20s.....but he don't look it.
 
randomthoughts said:
Samuel L. Jackson should not be let anywhere near Nick Fury! Despite how much they look alike, he is the most over rated actor in the known universe. He hasn't done a job well since Pulp Fiction, and his acting range extends from talking loudly to looking edgy and/or angry (which is why people were convinced by PF that he was anyway decent).

Has everyone forgotten that he played a permanently scarred director of an intelligence agency in another film? And how God awful that was? Coach Carter, SWAT, Star Wars, Basic, Changing Lanes with equally reprehensible Beefleck and the worst actor CV continues in the sunset. UGH.
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You do realise this is pretty much the movie equivelent of blasphemy?
 
Hellsbuttmonkey said:
what about WWE's John Cena for Cap?
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I think the fans deserve someone who CAN act. While Cena most def has the chin and physique.....his acting skills are still somewhat poor.

Even though the WWE is pushing him to be the next Rock. Cena has a WWE film coming out called "The Marine".
 
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