Ultimate Cable

Guijllons said:
Yeah, when I heard she was joining I was in two minds, one of horror and one really praying that do something decent with the character. And yeah man, they did.
I do worry about cable though, as I mentioned above. I think it's essential that they retain his lineage, but if that is the case. then how the hell do they get him to adulthood without it being lame?
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read strangefates first post in this thread... it's a good one...
 
I read it. A nice idea, but I think that his lineage as I have mentioned, should remain the same. I think the fact that he is a child of these two, however they play that, is essential to the character.
 
Guijllons said:
I read it. A nice idea, but I think that his lineage as I have mentioned, should remain the same. I think the fact that he is a child of these two, however they play that, is essential to the character.
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How?

also, Nate Grey is the one grown in a cloning chamber, the X-man. He's from Age of Apocolypse, Cable was born to a Clone of Jean Grey who later became the Goblin Queen of Limbo. Jean is not Cable's Mother. And Scott only raised him for 2-4 years, then he was spirited away to the future.

There is no real reason why he has to be connected.

That's like saying Shatterstar has to be another character on Mojo's show, because thats what he was. He is the Longshot of the future Mojoverse. SS would operate fine as it was mentioned by someone before, a Weapon X trainee.
 
Especially...

Since that is one of the corniest things about his charachter. I hate how "whoever" deemed those two the "ultimate procreators" who's to say storm and wolverine couldn't make a powerful kid or chamber and shadowcat? Besides Cyclops is lame. Alex Summers used to be the interesting summers brother until that stupid coma crap. Is Havok ultimate yet?
 
I guess you haven't read my fan fic, huh? Don't insult one of my favorite characters, man... As I'm sure you've read, Vaughan is giving us a better Cyclops a bit at a time, my friend! ;)
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
Cable was born to a Clone of Jean Grey who later became the Goblin Queen of Limbo
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Did I ever mention how much I like the Ultimate line? :wink:
 
I never thought that Jean and Scott having a kid and the clone and the time travel and all that was good in the first place. However, there are lines one has to draw with the re-invention of a character. If you remove their history, and what led to their powers, and how they became who they are entirely. they are not the same character. The Ultimate line is a progression and a development of the characters we know from the 616. I liked very much Strangefate's hypothesis, and new background, but to me, that wasn't Cable's background, that is a background of any new cool character. If his parentage is lost, then something else needs to remain, the time travel is the only thing big enough to really mark him as Cable. And that I would love to discount entirely.
And as for how he comes into being? A good version of his background? I don't have one yet, nothing strong enough to give Cable the history he deserves.
And furthermore, Jean's clone or nay, it's still her genetic material. So whether they choose her body or her mind as well as Scotts body or mind to develop the character of Cable. It is still, in essence, them.
 
Synch said:
Since that is one of the corniest things about his charachter. I hate how "whoever" deemed those two the "ultimate procreators" who's to say storm and wolverine couldn't make a powerful kid or chamber and shadowcat? Besides Cyclops is lame. Alex Summers used to be the interesting summers brother until that stupid coma crap. Is Havok ultimate yet?
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No no no Synch Scott and Jean are definitely the Ultimate Procreators...
 
Guijllons said:
I never thought that Jean and Scott having a kid and the clone and the time travel and all that was good in the first place. However, there are lines one has to draw with the re-invention of a character. If you remove their history, and what led to their powers, and how they became who they are entirely. they are not the same character. The Ultimate line is a progression and a development of the characters we know from the 616. I liked very much Strangefate's hypothesis, and new background, but to me, that wasn't Cable's background, that is a background of any new cool character. If his parentage is lost, then something else needs to remain, the time travel is the only thing big enough to really mark him as Cable. And that I would love to discount entirely.
And as for how he comes into being? A good version of his background? I don't have one yet, nothing strong enough to give Cable the history he deserves.
And furthermore, Jean's clone or nay, it's still her genetic material. So whether they choose her body or her mind as well as Scotts body or mind to develop the character of Cable. It is still, in essence, them.
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So is Ultimate Longshot not Longshot, since he is a Mutant from Genosha rather than a genetically created entity in an alternate Universe. The same goes for Mojo, I can't imaging the Ultimate Mojo being the emperor of an entire dimension, but he is still ultimately the same character.

Ultimate Colossus was a Russian Mafia strongman, rather than a farmer in soviet russia. Ultimate Nightcrawler was trained and abused by Weapon X, as opposed to having been trained and loved back in his old circus. Ultimate Storm was never the goddess of any African tribes I am aware of. Ultimate Dazzler was/is a smalltime Rock Icon, and far more of a drunk, smoking type of character than her counterpart. Ultimate Ultimate Gwen Stacy came from a broken household. Ultimate Norman Osborn was commisioned to create the OZ serum that led both to the creation of U Spiderman and the U Green Goblin by the US Government. Ultimate Captain America kills like any other soldier, and never faced the trauma of the death of his young partner, Bucky. Ultimate Nick Fury earned his rank in Operation Desert Storm. Ultimate Hulk was an attempt to recreate Captain America, and was initially an injection to force transformation. Ultimate Thor is a Left-winged radical (not meant in a derrogatory way at all) and spent the early part of his life as a patient in a psychiatric hospital (rather than as a surgeon). For pete's sake, Ultimate Nazis are big f--king lizard aliens! Despite ALL of this, they are ALL still the characters they were written to be. They've gone through situations to make their characters pretty close to what they are down at the core. The Point of the Ultimate Universe is to get to the Core of characters without ever having to worry about decades of continuity, right? I acknowledge that they're trying to show a more realistic Superhero world, fitting in today's society, but really I think the main point is to avoid that crappy background no new reader has the energy to work out.

Making Cable unrelated to Cyclops doesn't compromise his character, and I also want to say that if Scott and Jean have a child, Rachel would be the most obvious choice, she can utilize an extent of Pheonix's powers without being a part of the Pheonix Force, she is pretty damn powerful. Moreso than Cable, in any case.

Cable, when it is down to the basics, is a soldier who has been fighting wars his entire life, both external and internal, and now finds himself awkward and out of place in today's society.

Also, just to bring it up if no one has yet, Cable was -not- supposed to be Cyclops son, he was actually intended to be a much older Cannonball who had come back from the future. A later writer specified it, but Cable never changed, he stayed a soldier. His parentage doesnt matter, especially in a universe completely devoid of something that can clone a full grown human into a full grown human, making it unreasonable to have him made a clone built by sinister's desire for information about the summers sons (of which there is still one unidentified), not to mention the fact that Essex lacks any such interest at all.

DSF = Stubborn as Hell
 
I agree that the nature of cable's character is not that he is the child of scott and jean. And hey, let's not forget that I said my cloning idea was a bad one, and I'd hate to read that in the books. But, Thor is still from asgard(or believes he is), Peter Rasputin still has a little sister called ilynana, and Wolverine still smells of wet dog.
Some things don't change, and they shouldn't change. However the link to Scott and Jean is played, I think it will be played well. Just because it was underplayed in the 616 universe, doesn't mean it should be underplayed in this one. And even if Scott and Jean are not his physical biological parents, some connection IS required for that character.
Just because the first theory that comes to you sounds good, doesn't mean that it's right for the character. The new universe opens a lot of options as to how to play it, but if the resulting character from your theory is just a soldier who feels dislocated from the world, then that could be so many different things. hell, Captian America is that. It needs more of Cable in it. It needs something that is definite to the Cable character, something individual. And there is little more individual than his parents being who they are, or as I would prefer to see, for Scott and Jean to play a role in his life post his birth, but in a more parenting way. It dazzler has changed into a drunk rock chick, can't Cable not be a a soldier dislocated from the world he knew? If you want to look into that dislocation more, maybe he is a child, maybe he comes from a world and is thrown out of that world, and is taken in and looked after by Jean and Scott. There are plenty of options to the character that can be played well. but so far yours doesn't give enough Cable to make it Cable.
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
So is Ultimate Longshot not Longshot, since he is a Mutant from Genosha rather than a genetically created entity in an alternate Universe. The same goes for Mojo, I can't imaging the Ultimate Mojo being the emperor of an entire dimension, but he is still ultimately the same character.

Ultimate Colossus was a Russian Mafia strongman, rather than a farmer in soviet russia. Ultimate Nightcrawler was trained and abused by Weapon X, as opposed to having been trained and loved back in his old circus. Ultimate Storm was never the goddess of any African tribes I am aware of. Ultimate Dazzler was/is a smalltime Rock Icon, and far more of a drunk, smoking type of character than her counterpart. Ultimate Ultimate Gwen Stacy came from a broken household. Ultimate Norman Osborn was commisioned to create the OZ serum that led both to the creation of U Spiderman and the U Green Goblin by the US Government. Ultimate Captain America kills like any other soldier, and never faced the trauma of the death of his young partner, Bucky. Ultimate Nick Fury earned his rank in Operation Desert Storm. Ultimate Hulk was an attempt to recreate Captain America, and was initially an injection to force transformation. Ultimate Thor is a Left-winged radical (not meant in a derrogatory way at all) and spent the early part of his life as a patient in a psychiatric hospital (rather than as a surgeon). For pete's sake, Ultimate Nazis are big f--king lizard aliens! Despite ALL of this, they are ALL still the characters they were written to be. They've gone through situations to make their characters pretty close to what they are down at the core. The Point of the Ultimate Universe is to get to the Core of characters without ever having to worry about decades of continuity, right? I acknowledge that they're trying to show a more realistic Superhero world, fitting in today's society, but really I think the main point is to avoid that crappy background no new reader has the energy to work out.

Making Cable unrelated to Cyclops doesn't compromise his character, and I also want to say that if Scott and Jean have a child, Rachel would be the most obvious choice, she can utilize an extent of Pheonix's powers without being a part of the Pheonix Force, she is pretty damn powerful. Moreso than Cable, in any case.

Cable, when it is down to the basics, is a soldier who has been fighting wars his entire life, both external and internal, and now finds himself awkward and out of place in today's society.

Also, just to bring it up if no one has yet, Cable was -not- supposed to be Cyclops son, he was actually intended to be a much older Cannonball who had come back from the future. A later writer specified it, but Cable never changed, he stayed a soldier. His parentage doesnt matter, especially in a universe completely devoid of something that can clone a full grown human into a full grown human, making it unreasonable to have him made a clone built by sinister's desire for information about the summers sons (of which there is still one unidentified), not to mention the fact that Essex lacks any such interest at all.

DSF = Stubborn as Hell
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Weeeeeelllll put
 
Doc hit the nail on the head - nice.
 
well, first off about how my idea doesnt have enough of the character, thats because im working on my story outside of the board, to post in Fan-fic (and prod everyone here to go read) when im done.

Secondly, saying that they shouldn't play on his soldier aspect... what other aspects of Cable have you been subject to that have been ruthlessly hidden from me all these years? You mentioned Captain America. A soldier in World War Two and a soldier in Vietnam are two very very different soldiers, and people for that matter.

I still dont see why its important for Cable to be Jean and Scott's son. It is, however, important that he be older. I mean, a two year old Nathan Summers isnt a character, its a prop, and because of the nature of the Ultimate line it would be years before we would see any of him develop. And as for changed parenting, I just remembered Ultimate Rogue. Its a -big- part of her character that she was raised by Mystique and became a brotherhood member, this case led it to be just a runaway teen girl, still... would anyone here like to argue the validity of her character?
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
well, first off about how my idea doesnt have enough of the character, thats because im working on my story outside of the board, to post in Fan-fic (and prod everyone here to go read) when im done.

Secondly, saying that they shouldn't play on his soldier aspect... what other aspects of Cable have you been subject to that have been ruthlessly hidden from me all these years? You mentioned Captain America. A soldier in World War Two and a soldier in Vietnam are two very very different soldiers, and people for that matter.

I still dont see why its important for Cable to be Jean and Scott's son. It is, however, important that he be older. I mean, a two year old Nathan Summers isnt a character, its a prop, and because of the nature of the Ultimate line it would be years before we would see any of him develop. And as for changed parenting, I just remembered Ultimate Rogue. Its a -big- part of her character that she was raised by Mystique and became a brotherhood member, this case led it to be just a runaway teen girl, still... would anyone here like to argue the validity of her character?
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Dr. Strangfate do you read Cable/Deadpool at all because Cable's character is pretty interesting there...
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Dr. Strangfate do you read Cable/Deadpool at all because Cable's character is pretty interesting there...
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No, I haven't I was being a jerk because I wanted to be right. haha. I just had a bad weekend and decided that i needed to prove my point. I still think i'm right though.

I do want to pick up Cable/Deadpool (mostly, though, since Deadpool is one of my favorite 616 characters of all time). Is it out in TPB?
 
I have a way to connect him to Scott without time travel, cloning, and all of that other nonsense. I'm trying to work it out in a Fanfic I'm writing about an Alternate Ultimates team that the government puts together in case the Ultimates fail (But, they wind up being much more then simply an Alternate team). Ironically, it's called Ultimate Alternates. It should be up in a few days or so.
 
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