The Ultimate End..... for real?

DIrishB said:
Fine, Hulk was a poor choice. We'll go with Thor, who was viewed as a Schizo with God-like power for most of the series. Whether he was officially on the team or not, he was a member in everything but name. That doesn't qualify as a PR nightmare to you?
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Not really...Just about every member of the team had issues that were kept on the DL. Hank being abusive, Janet being a mutant, Bruce being Hulk, etc.
 
DIrishB said:
Because I said so.

Fine, Hulk was a poor choice. We'll go with Thor, who was viewed as a Schizo with God-like power for most of the series. Whether he was officially on the team or not, he was a member in everything but name. That doesn't qualify as a PR nightmare to you?
.
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So what, its not like he killed a bunch of people in public and he would be popular in certain circles.

DIrishB said:
I'd consider it a minor plot point not worth telling. It really didn't relate to the stories themselves the Sentinels showed up in. It could have, and probably should have to make the stories more relatable and realistic, but when the focus of your standard X-Men story is the team fighting some outside threat and and probably amongst themselves to a degree, a scene showing a newscast or something explaining the public's perception of the Sentinels is kind of unnecessary in my opinion, though I can understand why you would feel it is. It would definitly work towards making the fictional world its set in feel more real.

Then again, I'm no writer, just a reader, so I really don't know what I'm talking about.
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It is worth telling, because its more realsitc and provides deeper story telling possibilities, if the entire American public isn't a bunch of blood thristy maniacs.
 
The Ultimate Universe coming to an end?

Well...
looking at the Februrary previews on marvel.com...
apperreantly they are ending both Ultimate X-Men and Ultimate Fantastic Four on issues #100 and #60...
and they are reprinting Ultimate Hulk vs Wolverine...
and Ultimate Spider-Man seems to keep going...
and nothing about any other Ultimates stuff...

I don't know what Ultimatum holds until the next 4 months, but losing 2 on-going series doesn't sound very good...
I hope USM won't end up like the others, since it's the only actually good comic Marvel has released since the last 10 years!
 
Re: The Ultimate Universe coming to an end?

Issued said:
Well...
looking at the Februrary previews on marvel.com...
apperreantly they are ending both Ultimate X-Men and Ultimate Fantastic Four on issues #100 and #60...
and they are reprinting Ultimate Hulk vs Wolverine...
and Ultimate Spider-Man seems to keep going...
and nothing about any other Ultimates stuff...

I don't know what Ultimatum holds until the next 4 months, but losing 2 on-going series doesn't sound very good...
I hope USM won't end up like the others, since it's the only actually good comic Marvel has released since the last 10 years!
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It was announced that USM is going to keep going.
 
Re: The Ultimate Universe coming to an end?

I wish it was ending, It's done what it was meant for, they should have capped things off a couple years ago. (millars UFF, Vaughns UXM, let's say around warriors in USM, Ults 2)

but instead they're going to keep dragging it on, like MC2


but hey atleast Spider-Girl is being cancelled :D
 
Re: The Ultimate Universe coming to an end?

XM & FF will end due to ultimatum.

USM will continue, Millar will Start an ongoing Ultimate Avengers. (24 issues)

Rumors are floating of loeb doing Ultimates 4 (i seriously hope they get a new writer or can it)

and rumors of ultimate wolverine with a still unannounced 5th ongoing.

After ultimatum it was said there will be 5 ongoing series in the ultimate U (wonder if WvsH is the 5th??)
 
Re: The Ultimate Universe coming to an end?

They should just keep Ultimate Spider-Man going, tighten things up editorially because there's no reason in the world that with such a young line there should be this many continuity problems, and keep things limited to event-based minis. And stick with big names. HUGE names.

And take off the kid gloves. Grow some balls and make it more adult based.
 
Re: The Ultimate Universe coming to an end?

Issued said:
Well...
looking at the Februrary previews on marvel.com...
apperreantly they are ending both Ultimate X-Men and Ultimate Fantastic Four on issues #100 and #60...
and they are reprinting Ultimate Hulk vs Wolverine...
and Ultimate Spider-Man seems to keep going...
and nothing about any other Ultimates stuff...

I don't know what Ultimatum holds until the next 4 months, but losing 2 on-going series doesn't sound very good...
I hope USM won't end up like the others, since it's the only actually good comic Marvel has released since the last 10 years!
Click to expand...

What about Millar's return with "Ultimate Avengers", Loeb is still rumored to do "The Ultimates" Vol. 4 and their doing "Ultimate Black Ops".
 
Re: The Ultimate Universe coming to an end?

E said:
They should just keep Ultimate Spider-Man going, tighten things up editorially because there's no reason in the world that with such a young line there should be this many continuity problems, and keep things limited to event-based minis. And stick with big names. HUGE names.

And take off the kid gloves. Grow some balls and make it more adult based.
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But who is a huge name? After all the popular Batman stories Loeb did, wouldn't he be a big name? Plus there could be some good up and comers working oon indie titles who could be great if given the chance.

Also what do you mean by more adult based, I'm sure Loeb thought he was being adult based with his gratuitous sex scenes, incest and rapists that he added to Ultimates, but nothing could further from the truth. It takes to being adult then just being crass. Superman All Stars was more adult then Ultimates 3 and it didn't have any of that stuff.

Also I think the Ultimate Universe never really ran with the concept of revamping characters, often ignored characters and threw too many potential ideas away too quickly, wasting them (everyone from Luke Cage to Apocalypse to Vulture).
 
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Eightball said:
After ultimatum it was said there will be 5 ongoing series in the ultimate U (wonder if WvsH is the 5th??)
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Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk isn't an ongoing. Its a six-issue mini series. The first two issues came out like 2 or 3 years ago, and then it was delayed for years. Seriously. They're reprinting the first two issues in February because the writer finally finished the scripts and turned them all in a few months ago. The third issue will probably be out in March or April.

The reason it took the writer (Damon Lindelof) so long is because he was busy writing/working on the TV show Lost.

E said:
They should just keep Ultimate Spider-Man going, tighten things up editorially because there's no reason in the world that with such a young line there should be this many continuity problems, and keep things limited to event-based minis. And stick with big names. HUGE names.

And take off the kid gloves. Grow some balls and make it more adult based.
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Agreed.

the watcher said:
What about Millar's return with "Ultimate Avengers", Loeb is still rumored to do "The Ultimates" Vol. 4 and their doing "Ultimate Black Ops".
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I think Ultimate Black Ops is just an idea for an arc on Ultimate Avengers. I don't think its a separate title itself. I could be wrong, so if you can link to an article where it mentions Ultimate Black Ops I'd appreciate it. If its separate, I'd like to add it to the timeline.

The Overlord said:
But who is a huge name? After all the popular Batman stories Loeb did, wouldn't he be a big name? Plus there could be some good up and comers working oon indie titles who could be great if given the chance.
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A huge name who apparently hasn't lost their writing mojo. Warren Ellis. Brian Vaughan. Mark Millar. Established names. Reliable names. Talented names.

Also what do you mean by more adult based, I'm sure Loeb thought he was being adult based with his gratuitous sex scenes, incest and rapists that he added to Ultimates, but nothing could further from the truth. It takes to being adult then just being crass. Superman All Stars was more adult then Ultimates 3 and it didn't have any of that stuff.
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I think he means that when adult issues are addressed, they're done with at least some degree of tact, perhaps more subtle, and jokes that are actually funny. Anything but Loeb, really.

Also I think the Ultimate Universe never really ran with the concept of revamping characters, often ignored characters and threw too many potential ideas away too quickly, wasting them (everyone from Luke Cage to Apocalypse to Vulture).
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It certainly changed some aspects of characters, but inherently they're all pretty much the same. And I completely agree with you on that point. It was more about just introducing the Ultimate version of various 616 characters and getting rid of them just as quick. Many were never developed in any sense, were completely uninteresting when they were, or never even given any real thought in the first place (Ultimate Omega Red, for instance).
 
DIrishB said:
Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk isn't an ongoing. Its a six-issue mini series. The first two issues came out like 2 or 3 years ago, and then it was delayed for years. Seriously. They're reprinting the first two issues in February because the writer finally finished the scripts and turned them all in a few months ago. The third issue will probably be out in March or April.

The reason it took the writer (Damon Lindelof) so long is because he was busy writing/working on the TV show Lost.
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Also, he's lazy.

Marc Guggenheim runs his own TV show and still writes tons of comics.
 
DIrishB said:
I think Ultimate Black Ops is just an idea for an arc on Ultimate Avengers. I don't think its a separate title itself. I could be wrong, so if you can link to an article where it mentions Ultimate Black Ops I'd appreciate it. If its separate, I'd like to add it to the timeline.
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Ah, but Suicide Squad and the current Thunderbolts are titles that have lasted a while with just focusing on a Black-ops team so it could work. besides Ultimate thunderbolts could be interesting.


DIrishB said:
A huge name who apparently hasn't lost their writing mojo. Warren Ellis. Brian Vaughan. Mark Millar. Established names. Reliable names. Talented names.
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But like I said there could be a ton of up and comers on the indie titles who could be very good, I think talent doesn't have to come from an established name persay, besides relying on the same writers over and over again can leave the UU stale, some new blood can't hurt. Even the greats had to start somewhere.


DIrishB said:
I think he means that when adult issues are addressed, they're done with at least some degree of tact, perhaps more subtle, and jokes that are actually funny. Anything but Loeb, really.
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Okay I would agree with that.


DIrishB said:
It certainly changed some aspects of characters, but inherently they're all pretty much the same. And I completely agree with you on that point. It was more about just introducing the Ultimate version of various 616 characters and getting rid of them just as quick. Many were never developed in any sense, were completely uninteresting when they were, or never even given any real thought in the first place (Ultimate Omega Red, for instance).
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A precious few characters have actually been improved or even had interesting twists added to their characters. If cartoon like BTAS can revamp lame characters right away, then I don't see why the Ultimate comics, which are supposed to be aimed at a higher reader audience can't do the same.

The UU had the benefit of hindsight they could have characters hit the ground running, made interesting from their first appearance, instead of through a process of trail and error and could used this hindsight to avoid pitfalls that plagued the 616 titles (like introducing time travel to the X-Men) But ultimately they failed to use the hindsight and fell victim to both the problems I mentioned, making characters fall flat on their first appearance and making the same mistakes 616 Marvel made.
 
Joe Kalicki said:
Also, he's lazy.

Marc Guggenheim runs his own TV show and still writes tons of comics.
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Fair enough.

The Overlord said:
Ah, but Suicide Squad and the current Thunderbolts are titles that have lasted a while with just focusing on a Black-ops team so it could work. besides Ultimate thunderbolts could be interesting.
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I didn't say it shouldn't get its own title, I was merely pointing out that the Black Ops idea is being used for an arc of Ultimate Avengers instead of its own title. At least I think so.

But like I said there could be a ton of up and comers on the indie titles who could be very good, I think talent doesn't have to come from an established name persay, besides relying on the same writers over and over again can leave the UU stale, some new blood can't hurt. Even the greats had to start somewhere.
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No one is arguing that. I just think a lot of people have fond memories of the stuff done by names like Millar, Vaughan, and Ellis, and would like to see a return to that. Sort of a full circle thing, you know?

Again, that isn't to say new talent shouldn't be given a chance.
 
Re: The Ultimate Universe coming to an end?

The Overlord said:
But who is a huge name? After all the popular Batman stories Loeb did, wouldn't he be a big name?
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Well, big names that don't suck, of course.

The Overlord said:
Plus there could be some good up and comers working oon indie titles who could be great if given the chance.
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Nah - take some pride in the line and don't let it be someone's proving grounds. Make them earn it first. More like DC's All-Star line. I'm pretty sure you will never see Joe Pokaski writing All-Star Superman.

The Overlord said:
Also what do you mean by more adult based, I'm sure Loeb thought he was being adult based with his gratuitous sex scenes, incest and rapists that he added to Ultimates, but nothing could further from the truth. It takes to being adult then just being crass. Superman All Stars was more adult then Ultimates 3 and it didn't have any of that stuff.
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No - adult based doesn't mean swearing and gratuitous sex. And Loeb is an idiot. It's more in the way the characters talk to each other and deal with things. There have been moments but largely everything has been all wrong. Particularly with Ultimate X-Men.

The Overlord said:
Also I think the Ultimate Universe never really ran with the concept of revamping characters, often ignored characters and threw too many potential ideas away too quickly, wasting them (everyone from Luke Cage to Apocalypse to Vulture).
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I do agree with that.
 
Re: The Ultimate Universe coming to an end?

E said:
Well, big names that don't suck, of course.
.
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Okay, well who do think is a big name that doesn't succk? aren't a lot of the big names (Morrison, Johns, etc) DC exclusive.


It often seems like the UU lacked new blood and relied to too much on Ellis, Bendis and Millar, yeah they are all good, but sometimes you want someone with different and new ideas into the mix, someone who doesn't suck like Loeb.

E said:
Nah - take some pride in the line and don't let it be someone's proving grounds. Make them earn it first. More like DC's All-Star line. I'm pretty sure you will never see Joe Pokaski writing All-Star Superman..
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I don't know, to look at amovie example, Nolan was making good movies on the indie scene and WB took a chance on him and he made dark Knight for them.

For all we know there could tons of up and comers spinning gold in the indie titles who haven't discovered by the big two yet.

E said:
No - adult based doesn't mean swearing and gratuitous sex. And Loeb is an idiot. It's more in the way the characters talk to each other and deal with things. There have been moments but largely everything has been all wrong. Particularly with Ultimate X-Men.
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Okay I would agree with that.

E said:
I do agree with that.
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Yeah, a related problem is it seems like they often introduced new characters with no real care, just burning through them, introducing characters for the sake of introducing them.

Heck the new Spider-Ma cartoon did a better job of introducing Spidey villains to their universe and that's a sat morning cartoon!
 
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