Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
I know, and it's frustrating me to no end. Things are occurring in the past, present, who knows maybe the future.
I'll go away now.
I'll go away now.
The New 52 general discussion
- Thread starter ProjectX2
- Start date
ProjectX2
Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
- Joined
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I know, I agree with you. The whole thing is very inconsistent but I have hope that they have planned it all out.
I am a naive person.
I am a naive person.
If we the readers are being told that everything will be explained, I can accept and roll with that. The problem is nobody told me that.
It's cool though. One of the great writers of our generation, Jeph Loeb, once talked about how he likes to tell stories starting in the middle.
It's cool though. One of the great writers of our generation, Jeph Loeb, once talked about how he likes to tell stories starting in the middle.
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
alright, who made a deal with Mephisto this time?
EDIT: I really don't get the point of this. If DC relaunched everything in order to make the continuity less convoluted for new readers, then why is the continuity now MORE convoluted? They went from their characters having a history and continuity to their backstory, to having their characters still having a history and continuity to their backstory, just now it's been changed in different ways for each of the different characters and some of it still happened and some of it didn't...
How is that simpler? (I speak as someone on the outside who isn't reading any of the new stuff).
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Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
For the most part the stories are meant to be accessible. The storylines that are popping up in each of the books aren't meant to require that you've read comics monthly for years. In some cases, this means maintaining the most iconic stories behind the character (AKA - the Alan Moore Swamp Thing run, the Grant Morrison Animal Man run, The Killing Joke, pretty much everything in the Bat-U, etc), in other cases it means scrapping what came before in order to create something that matches the public awareness of the character, or shaping a character into something iconic for new readers.
Whether the stories are shaped by continuity or not, the continuity doesn't matter.
That's what they're trying to do here. How they're doing it in certain places is a little confusing or stupid, but that's another story.
Whether the stories are shaped by continuity or not, the continuity doesn't matter.
That's what they're trying to do here. How they're doing it in certain places is a little confusing or stupid, but that's another story.
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J. Agamemnon
Well-Known Member
It's like strafing in a circle.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
There's a simple solution to this. Assume nothing except what's on the page. Cool?
Also, yes....
Loeb being a ****ty writer TOTALLY invalidates in media res as a valid storytelling method. There is no place for it in stories anywhere. (You're going to HATE my 52 Marvel relaunch)
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
that's fine, except I could do that with the old DC universe too.
From what I'm hearing (from DSF and others) though, this isn't really a relaunch as much as it is Back to the Future. When Marty comes back home at the end of the first movie, everything is recognizable, but some things are different (some just a little, and some very different). DC back-to-the-futured the DC universe so they could update their characters. I guess that makes sense.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Not really. They've used the term 'reboot' but essentially thrown continuity out the window. This isn't a problem in and of itself, the problem is that it's at such a level of disparate saturation, that each title is confusing. Imagine if Image released 52 titles out of the blue. It would saturate the market horrifically. Now imagine some of those titles share characters but they're not linked in the same time. And some are. And you get the level of complete confusion. I'm actively staying away from the continuity, but I had trouble with the first page of STORMWATCH because it referenced BATMAN #1, which I thought was DETECTIVE COMICS #1 which I had read, and then I'm immediately jumping between BATMAN, BATGIRL, DETECTIVE COMICS, JUSTICE LEAGUE, and, STORMWATCH. And because Superman is in JUSTICE LEAGUE, I'm now thinking about ACTION COMICS and bloody hell, I have no idea how they're supposed to tie in, but the comic relies on you understanding that they do.
It's a complete and utter mess. 52 brand-new titles is too much. Having them link at all is a mistake, and having them link haphazardly is even worse. I'm sure this isn't hurting sales in the short-term, but it's awful to actually read.
It's a complete and utter mess. 52 brand-new titles is too much. Having them link at all is a mistake, and having them link haphazardly is even worse. I'm sure this isn't hurting sales in the short-term, but it's awful to actually read.
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
DC has never used the word Reboot to refer to this.
Reboot has only ever been used by the Fan-Community and the Press.
Reboot has only ever been used by the Fan-Community and the Press.
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Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
They may not have used the term Reboot, but they haven't denied it either.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Some more reviews. After reading 10 of these new DC 52 titles, only one has been written well. The rest are not terrible, but are just bland, mediocre, & dull. Each has the exact same problems: an in media res opening with no context, ceaseless exposition, a severe lack of both originality and empathy, and, a meaningless cliffhanger that makes me ask, "SO WHAT?"
I go into depth on each because I don't want to be dismissively rude. I am, however, being entirely narcissistic as I put these up because I assume people care what I think. I've said before I don't enjoy bashing other works people enjoy, but people don't seem to really be enjoying these comics a great deal, and twitter has made me more narcissistic than I was before and now in my head, I have a 'following' who require tweets from me. It's all rather pathetic. Expect me to wake up tomorrow and regret all of this.
OMAC — It just doesn't work. The only part of the comic I enjoyed was the very last speech bubble where Brother Eye tells Kevin Kho, who's been through a bizarre day, "Call your girlfriend. She's worried about you." That is a wonderful little touch. Unfortunately, the comic is a complete mess. I have no idea who OMAC is, nor Kevin, nor Cadmus or any of the monsters in there, I have no idea what Brother Eye sent him in for nor how Kevin's involved. Obviously, these are questions I'm meant to ask, and if this had been the opening 5 pages of the comic, it could've been a fun intro to all the crazy. But it's twenty pages of completely contextless pulp action. When you try to open with the crazy, out-of-context teaser, it's either got to be short so you don't wear the audience's patience out, or it's got to have such incredible spectacle, it's length doesn't matter. Had this issue been illustrated by someone like Brian Stelfreeze, it would've probably worked much better because his art is so beautiful, and because he can choreograph fight scenes like no one else. Unfortunately, while the art in OMAC isn't bad (it's a somewhat cute attempt to channel Jack Kirby), it's hardly stunning. The actual action in the story is also unremarkable and rather dull. As such, it's not 'crazy' enough in one way, and simply incoherent in another. As I said, Brother Eye has a wonderful touch at the end, but it's just not working as it is.
JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL — Probably the most annoying of them all so far, because of it's arrogance. I tried to go along with the idea of the stereotypical "In Soviet Russia, Goods Make You" type of speech with outrageously narrow-minded foreign patriots of Russia and China, but it was really rather aggravating how there was at least two Russians and two Chinese in the story, and all were identical except in the grammar (and then it was just cliche broken english). It would've been nice to have General August in Iron and Rocket Red actually be somewhat different people. For example, it would've been nice if one was very loud in their arrogance, brashly declaring themselves leader (say, General August in Iron), and the other is continually asserting his authority and superiority by demeaning everyone else's efforts whilst being polite (say, Rocket Red). For example, imagine General August in Iron being pissed off at the suggestion of Booster Gold as leader by stating, "I am an actual General. I have more military experience in tactical situations than all of you combined. So let's do what I say, and get the job done." Imagine Rocket Red saying about the plane, "I am impressed. I thought Americans were thirty years behind, not ten. This will do for now. Well done." It's not much, but it's better than, "Russian plane is best." "Chinese plane is superior." "Russian!" "Chinese!" Batman as surrogate leader is a cute idea, but it works against itself because it undermines the team dynamic. The entire point of the concept of this particular League is that is is a political mismatch of superheroes (for no real purpose, I might add, it's not like these superheroes aren't doing the job already) all of whom can't get on with anyone else in the group and it's bound to be trouble: Booster Gold has to make a 'team' out of them. Unfortunately, Batman then shows up and everyone does exactly what he says. This is hardly conducive for expressing that the team doesn't get on. The only one who doesn't do what Batman says is Guy Gardner and he leaves. Instead we have characters who barely bicker, do exactly as their told, and then the writer decides to just have them snap at each other for no reason because that shows they're 'not working'. Instead, he should've opened with the press conference announcing the team as they're just about to set off on a mission. In the press conference they're all supportive of each other and the project and as soon as they're out of earshot they start bickering about who's getting paid the most, how Booster is a media whore, *****ing behind their backs, splitting into camps and complaining all the way to the mission, and once their, they're inability to work together makes the situation worse and on it goes. What makes this comic all the more aggravating is that there's a sequence in which Briggs complains about the JLI protesters comparing them to fanboys saying there isn't an 'open mind' among them, and Booster then says we have to change their minds. While it's true fanboys are unnecessarily harsh and pessimistic before having any real information of a project, it's rather rude to express that this comic is supposed to change anyone's mind when it's this poorly put together. What's more, it shows that Dan Jurgens has contempt for the very people picking it up, that he has to convince his audience is comic is good because they're so close-minded (you'll note that Booster doesn't disagree with the assessment of the fans). This is a mistake, because no writer ever wrote anything of quality while having disdain for his audience. The writers of quality write for an audience they respect and understand, which is why so many say that they "write for themselves". It's a rather contemptuous effort.
MEN OF WAR — While it's a nice idea to have a Sgt Rock comic and have it build up how he becomes Sgt Rock, and indeed, the character of Rock as someone who is actively sabotaging his career is rather compelling. I'd like to understand more about Rock. The problem is the superhero stuff. I was reading the comic and enjoying a rather interesting character who wants to stay away from command, but in an odd fashion; it's not to 'avoid the desk' as his promotion would still have him be on the field, and it's not because the guy ordering him would be any different, Rock already is insubordinate to the chain of command, so there's something else going on there that I'd like to know. So I'm enjoying this military story when suddenly, out of the blue, superheroes show up with no context or set-up, doing something I don't understand, and stuff happens. It just makes no emotional sense. I understand what happened, I understand the events, but the events are completely meaningless. Shame.
BATWING — This is probably the comic that intrigued me most. It opens with an in media res action sequence then flashes back to how we got there. I hate framing. It is an old TV cliche in order to keep people hooked during the commercial. It is inappropriate in movies, novels, plays, and comics – there's no such thing as channel surfing. If I have the comic or the movie, I'm there for the duration, so I don't need to be hooked by this cheap framing device. The only reason to do it is to create dramatic irony, but this rarely happens. Dramatic irony promises us a deeper insight into the hows and whys of the story, such as the beginning of THE USUAL SUSPECTS. DAMAGES uses the framing technique to an extreme, hooking the audience and creating wonderful irony and tension because the flash forwards are so cryptic. But here, it's just a temporal stir fry to hook audiences because the beginning is boring. It's even more egregious here because we get an in media res action opening frame, then it cuts back six weeks… to another in media res action opening. So there's no point at all. In fact, instead of driving the tension up, it kills it: Massacre's first appearance isn't a chilling, terrifying debut of a man who slaughters a police force, but a guy having having a rather mundane fight with Batwing and they're somewhat equal. Massacre is well enough designed that in the opening he keeps some tension, but the simple act of revealing him, out of context, in the opening pages, removes a lot of the power he would've built up as an invisible predator of Africa, killing dozens of people and leaving warning messages caked in blood for Batwing. Secondly, the cliffhanger of the issue is Massacre almost killing Batwing. But… we know he's fine. It's hard enough to genuinely threaten the eponymous hero of your series, but it's even harder if you've just shown us that six weeks earlier he's fine. So, it's rather badly structured. However, not only is the art beautiful, but I am genuinely intrigued: Massacre is a good villain, Batwing is rather interesting (though I'm not sure about Batman-as-mentor, it feels a ludicrously cheap gimmick), and it's set in Africa, and people aren't outrageous stereotypes. It actually feels like a new superhero world I've not seen before. It feels new to me, and so I hope it improves. The important stuff works; the art is good, the idea of a villain who can kill a police department single-handedly and leave messages is interesting, the city of Tinasha is new and I want to see more of it, it just needs someone to assemble those nice structures into something more effective.
STORMWATCH — This is rather a poor work. The art is not particularly good, but the idea of the Moon terraforming into a threatening claw is interesting and shows promise. The Jenny Quantum stuff seems out of place and I don't get what that has to do with anything. And then you get Stormwatch's attempt to recruit Apollo. They want Apollo because he might be the most powerful person on the planet, but Martian Manhunter is able to take him down on his own. Apollo is gripped with nihilistic ennui, thinking the world is so horrible it's not worth saving, just killing child molesters. Again, I'm faced with characters I cannot find anything in whom to empathise with. Apollo killing child molesters is not a technique that draws me to him because it is such an overused one; writers have been using child molesters for years as something that, no matter how villainous the protagonist is, he won't sink that low. How did the writers of DEXTER get us to empathise with Dexter Morgan, a serial killer masquerading as a police forensics officer? By having him kill a child molester. Five years ago. It's the cliche in vogue to get us on their side, but it's shallow. Especially here since it's done off-panel. The threat from the moon is new, but not compelling. None of the characters are particularly interesting… compare this to the first issue of THE AUTHORITY, in which it opens with such massive destruction we feel the planet is vulnerable. Then we discover Kaizen Gammorah who is 'branding' the planet, which is a rather brilliant idea, a mercilessly sadistic despot. And then, as the heroes react and try to find and stop Gammorah, we are shown who they are and what they can do, and the cliffhanger is them debuting as a team ready to stop the next big attack. It's exciting, well paced, and intriguing. This is none of those things. This is pulled in three directions (recruiting Apollo, the Horn, and the Moon) and is a boring, flaccid attempt, unfortunately.
SWAMP THING — The idea of Holland pointing out that plants are incredibly destructive, violent things but that we don't notice because the violence is so slow, that we don't see the savagery in its beauty, is wonderful and true and a great insight. Unfortunately, I am left to say, "So what?" What does any of this have to do with the story? It sets a wonderfully creeping tone to the story, and then we get a big, brash, zombie death machine snapping necks and turning people into zombies with flies. But, it's a good idea, and the monster is genuinely chilling so it sort of works. But Superman doesn't. Superman shows up so that the writer can have Superman tell us how awesome and important Alec Holland is, but it just makes him less interesting because he's not Superman. I will never understand this: you have a character that needs to be set up and given a foundation to stand upon. Why would you then have a far more popular and well-known character show up and steal the spotlight? SWAMP THING isn't the only one to do this; Batman shows up in BATWING and JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL. I know Batman is supposed to be teaching Batwing, but I don't really think it works. It's a nice idea, but it just makes Batwing a rookie and we kinda want to see Batman fight Massacre instead. It's a self-defeating tactic and it hurts here. What interest I had building up for Alec "Doc Cabbage" Holland waned when Superman showed up. And again, there's no emotional context for the cliffhanger. Swamp Thing shows up. So what? Alec Holland's entire fear, the reason he ran away from the important bioresearch he was doing is that he doesn't want to become Swamp Thing again… and there's Swamp Thing standing there. So… he's not Swamp Thing. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I feel it's supposed to be bad, but I don't see how. I just don't get it on an emotional level. I don't care what happens to Holland. And then there's Paniquette, who I used to enjoy but now it looks like he's just lightboxing Kevin Knowlan. It's really rather sad.
DETECTIVE COMICS — And again, another boring comic with nothing I've not seen before, with no emotional context at all. The cliffhanger makes no emotional sense; someone (The Dollmaker?) has carved off Joker's face. So what? This is what I have been asking myself over and over again as I read this new 52. It's hardly new. I said before these comics came out the problem isn't continuity. You can have terrific work without continuity, THE ULTIMATES, and terrific work in continuity, Whedon's ASTONISHING X-MEN. Continuity has nothing to do with quality. But they messed around with numbering and continuity, but it's the same writers and editors putting out the same characters and the problems are all the same, the problems are why the only superhero comic I've been buying for the last year has been Jonathan Hickman's superb FANTASTIC FOUR: I don't care about any of these characters. Each of these titles is written in media res, with no explanation of who anyone is as a character, the stories are pulled in several directions with no cohesion, and they're filled with endless exposition and narration, but there's no emotional context to anything happening. The only one that actually had any emotion to it was ANIMAL MAN. I liked Buddy. And boy, was I ready to hate that comic. But it worked. Animal Man was well-written as a character, and the cliffhanger was tonally and emotionally set up beautifully. The only one out of all of these that worked out of the gate. All the others just seemed to have major, obvious flaws that shouldn't come from professional writers because these are fundamental story principles being lost, and certainly not works that DC should be "proudly presenting". It's all been a poor showing.
I'm getting snippy. It's 3am, I read 7 comics back to back, and it's irritating to read 7 comics in a row & at the end of each ask: "SO WHAT?"
I go into depth on each because I don't want to be dismissively rude. I am, however, being entirely narcissistic as I put these up because I assume people care what I think. I've said before I don't enjoy bashing other works people enjoy, but people don't seem to really be enjoying these comics a great deal, and twitter has made me more narcissistic than I was before and now in my head, I have a 'following' who require tweets from me. It's all rather pathetic. Expect me to wake up tomorrow and regret all of this.
OMAC — It just doesn't work. The only part of the comic I enjoyed was the very last speech bubble where Brother Eye tells Kevin Kho, who's been through a bizarre day, "Call your girlfriend. She's worried about you." That is a wonderful little touch. Unfortunately, the comic is a complete mess. I have no idea who OMAC is, nor Kevin, nor Cadmus or any of the monsters in there, I have no idea what Brother Eye sent him in for nor how Kevin's involved. Obviously, these are questions I'm meant to ask, and if this had been the opening 5 pages of the comic, it could've been a fun intro to all the crazy. But it's twenty pages of completely contextless pulp action. When you try to open with the crazy, out-of-context teaser, it's either got to be short so you don't wear the audience's patience out, or it's got to have such incredible spectacle, it's length doesn't matter. Had this issue been illustrated by someone like Brian Stelfreeze, it would've probably worked much better because his art is so beautiful, and because he can choreograph fight scenes like no one else. Unfortunately, while the art in OMAC isn't bad (it's a somewhat cute attempt to channel Jack Kirby), it's hardly stunning. The actual action in the story is also unremarkable and rather dull. As such, it's not 'crazy' enough in one way, and simply incoherent in another. As I said, Brother Eye has a wonderful touch at the end, but it's just not working as it is.
JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL — Probably the most annoying of them all so far, because of it's arrogance. I tried to go along with the idea of the stereotypical "In Soviet Russia, Goods Make You" type of speech with outrageously narrow-minded foreign patriots of Russia and China, but it was really rather aggravating how there was at least two Russians and two Chinese in the story, and all were identical except in the grammar (and then it was just cliche broken english). It would've been nice to have General August in Iron and Rocket Red actually be somewhat different people. For example, it would've been nice if one was very loud in their arrogance, brashly declaring themselves leader (say, General August in Iron), and the other is continually asserting his authority and superiority by demeaning everyone else's efforts whilst being polite (say, Rocket Red). For example, imagine General August in Iron being pissed off at the suggestion of Booster Gold as leader by stating, "I am an actual General. I have more military experience in tactical situations than all of you combined. So let's do what I say, and get the job done." Imagine Rocket Red saying about the plane, "I am impressed. I thought Americans were thirty years behind, not ten. This will do for now. Well done." It's not much, but it's better than, "Russian plane is best." "Chinese plane is superior." "Russian!" "Chinese!" Batman as surrogate leader is a cute idea, but it works against itself because it undermines the team dynamic. The entire point of the concept of this particular League is that is is a political mismatch of superheroes (for no real purpose, I might add, it's not like these superheroes aren't doing the job already) all of whom can't get on with anyone else in the group and it's bound to be trouble: Booster Gold has to make a 'team' out of them. Unfortunately, Batman then shows up and everyone does exactly what he says. This is hardly conducive for expressing that the team doesn't get on. The only one who doesn't do what Batman says is Guy Gardner and he leaves. Instead we have characters who barely bicker, do exactly as their told, and then the writer decides to just have them snap at each other for no reason because that shows they're 'not working'. Instead, he should've opened with the press conference announcing the team as they're just about to set off on a mission. In the press conference they're all supportive of each other and the project and as soon as they're out of earshot they start bickering about who's getting paid the most, how Booster is a media whore, *****ing behind their backs, splitting into camps and complaining all the way to the mission, and once their, they're inability to work together makes the situation worse and on it goes. What makes this comic all the more aggravating is that there's a sequence in which Briggs complains about the JLI protesters comparing them to fanboys saying there isn't an 'open mind' among them, and Booster then says we have to change their minds. While it's true fanboys are unnecessarily harsh and pessimistic before having any real information of a project, it's rather rude to express that this comic is supposed to change anyone's mind when it's this poorly put together. What's more, it shows that Dan Jurgens has contempt for the very people picking it up, that he has to convince his audience is comic is good because they're so close-minded (you'll note that Booster doesn't disagree with the assessment of the fans). This is a mistake, because no writer ever wrote anything of quality while having disdain for his audience. The writers of quality write for an audience they respect and understand, which is why so many say that they "write for themselves". It's a rather contemptuous effort.
MEN OF WAR — While it's a nice idea to have a Sgt Rock comic and have it build up how he becomes Sgt Rock, and indeed, the character of Rock as someone who is actively sabotaging his career is rather compelling. I'd like to understand more about Rock. The problem is the superhero stuff. I was reading the comic and enjoying a rather interesting character who wants to stay away from command, but in an odd fashion; it's not to 'avoid the desk' as his promotion would still have him be on the field, and it's not because the guy ordering him would be any different, Rock already is insubordinate to the chain of command, so there's something else going on there that I'd like to know. So I'm enjoying this military story when suddenly, out of the blue, superheroes show up with no context or set-up, doing something I don't understand, and stuff happens. It just makes no emotional sense. I understand what happened, I understand the events, but the events are completely meaningless. Shame.
BATWING — This is probably the comic that intrigued me most. It opens with an in media res action sequence then flashes back to how we got there. I hate framing. It is an old TV cliche in order to keep people hooked during the commercial. It is inappropriate in movies, novels, plays, and comics – there's no such thing as channel surfing. If I have the comic or the movie, I'm there for the duration, so I don't need to be hooked by this cheap framing device. The only reason to do it is to create dramatic irony, but this rarely happens. Dramatic irony promises us a deeper insight into the hows and whys of the story, such as the beginning of THE USUAL SUSPECTS. DAMAGES uses the framing technique to an extreme, hooking the audience and creating wonderful irony and tension because the flash forwards are so cryptic. But here, it's just a temporal stir fry to hook audiences because the beginning is boring. It's even more egregious here because we get an in media res action opening frame, then it cuts back six weeks… to another in media res action opening. So there's no point at all. In fact, instead of driving the tension up, it kills it: Massacre's first appearance isn't a chilling, terrifying debut of a man who slaughters a police force, but a guy having having a rather mundane fight with Batwing and they're somewhat equal. Massacre is well enough designed that in the opening he keeps some tension, but the simple act of revealing him, out of context, in the opening pages, removes a lot of the power he would've built up as an invisible predator of Africa, killing dozens of people and leaving warning messages caked in blood for Batwing. Secondly, the cliffhanger of the issue is Massacre almost killing Batwing. But… we know he's fine. It's hard enough to genuinely threaten the eponymous hero of your series, but it's even harder if you've just shown us that six weeks earlier he's fine. So, it's rather badly structured. However, not only is the art beautiful, but I am genuinely intrigued: Massacre is a good villain, Batwing is rather interesting (though I'm not sure about Batman-as-mentor, it feels a ludicrously cheap gimmick), and it's set in Africa, and people aren't outrageous stereotypes. It actually feels like a new superhero world I've not seen before. It feels new to me, and so I hope it improves. The important stuff works; the art is good, the idea of a villain who can kill a police department single-handedly and leave messages is interesting, the city of Tinasha is new and I want to see more of it, it just needs someone to assemble those nice structures into something more effective.
STORMWATCH — This is rather a poor work. The art is not particularly good, but the idea of the Moon terraforming into a threatening claw is interesting and shows promise. The Jenny Quantum stuff seems out of place and I don't get what that has to do with anything. And then you get Stormwatch's attempt to recruit Apollo. They want Apollo because he might be the most powerful person on the planet, but Martian Manhunter is able to take him down on his own. Apollo is gripped with nihilistic ennui, thinking the world is so horrible it's not worth saving, just killing child molesters. Again, I'm faced with characters I cannot find anything in whom to empathise with. Apollo killing child molesters is not a technique that draws me to him because it is such an overused one; writers have been using child molesters for years as something that, no matter how villainous the protagonist is, he won't sink that low. How did the writers of DEXTER get us to empathise with Dexter Morgan, a serial killer masquerading as a police forensics officer? By having him kill a child molester. Five years ago. It's the cliche in vogue to get us on their side, but it's shallow. Especially here since it's done off-panel. The threat from the moon is new, but not compelling. None of the characters are particularly interesting… compare this to the first issue of THE AUTHORITY, in which it opens with such massive destruction we feel the planet is vulnerable. Then we discover Kaizen Gammorah who is 'branding' the planet, which is a rather brilliant idea, a mercilessly sadistic despot. And then, as the heroes react and try to find and stop Gammorah, we are shown who they are and what they can do, and the cliffhanger is them debuting as a team ready to stop the next big attack. It's exciting, well paced, and intriguing. This is none of those things. This is pulled in three directions (recruiting Apollo, the Horn, and the Moon) and is a boring, flaccid attempt, unfortunately.
SWAMP THING — The idea of Holland pointing out that plants are incredibly destructive, violent things but that we don't notice because the violence is so slow, that we don't see the savagery in its beauty, is wonderful and true and a great insight. Unfortunately, I am left to say, "So what?" What does any of this have to do with the story? It sets a wonderfully creeping tone to the story, and then we get a big, brash, zombie death machine snapping necks and turning people into zombies with flies. But, it's a good idea, and the monster is genuinely chilling so it sort of works. But Superman doesn't. Superman shows up so that the writer can have Superman tell us how awesome and important Alec Holland is, but it just makes him less interesting because he's not Superman. I will never understand this: you have a character that needs to be set up and given a foundation to stand upon. Why would you then have a far more popular and well-known character show up and steal the spotlight? SWAMP THING isn't the only one to do this; Batman shows up in BATWING and JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL. I know Batman is supposed to be teaching Batwing, but I don't really think it works. It's a nice idea, but it just makes Batwing a rookie and we kinda want to see Batman fight Massacre instead. It's a self-defeating tactic and it hurts here. What interest I had building up for Alec "Doc Cabbage" Holland waned when Superman showed up. And again, there's no emotional context for the cliffhanger. Swamp Thing shows up. So what? Alec Holland's entire fear, the reason he ran away from the important bioresearch he was doing is that he doesn't want to become Swamp Thing again… and there's Swamp Thing standing there. So… he's not Swamp Thing. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I feel it's supposed to be bad, but I don't see how. I just don't get it on an emotional level. I don't care what happens to Holland. And then there's Paniquette, who I used to enjoy but now it looks like he's just lightboxing Kevin Knowlan. It's really rather sad.
DETECTIVE COMICS — And again, another boring comic with nothing I've not seen before, with no emotional context at all. The cliffhanger makes no emotional sense; someone (The Dollmaker?) has carved off Joker's face. So what? This is what I have been asking myself over and over again as I read this new 52. It's hardly new. I said before these comics came out the problem isn't continuity. You can have terrific work without continuity, THE ULTIMATES, and terrific work in continuity, Whedon's ASTONISHING X-MEN. Continuity has nothing to do with quality. But they messed around with numbering and continuity, but it's the same writers and editors putting out the same characters and the problems are all the same, the problems are why the only superhero comic I've been buying for the last year has been Jonathan Hickman's superb FANTASTIC FOUR: I don't care about any of these characters. Each of these titles is written in media res, with no explanation of who anyone is as a character, the stories are pulled in several directions with no cohesion, and they're filled with endless exposition and narration, but there's no emotional context to anything happening. The only one that actually had any emotion to it was ANIMAL MAN. I liked Buddy. And boy, was I ready to hate that comic. But it worked. Animal Man was well-written as a character, and the cliffhanger was tonally and emotionally set up beautifully. The only one out of all of these that worked out of the gate. All the others just seemed to have major, obvious flaws that shouldn't come from professional writers because these are fundamental story principles being lost, and certainly not works that DC should be "proudly presenting". It's all been a poor showing.
I'm getting snippy. It's 3am, I read 7 comics back to back, and it's irritating to read 7 comics in a row & at the end of each ask: "SO WHAT?"
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Bass
Nexus of the World
Make that eight comics. I forgot I read ACTION COMICS too. Everything above counts for it as well. A dull, insipid work that turns Superman into a rather annoying bully, who lives in a hovel. Everything about it is ugly; the costume, Metropolis, and the people. Nothing about it was compelling in the least, and it certainly didn't feel like I was reading Superman. It was a very shallow attempt to 'modernize' Superman by making him a bit more old-school and bad-ass. This is nowhere near the level of quality ALL-STAR SUPERMAN had. And Lex Luthor is a uninteresting shadow of himself; he's just paranoid and rather brutish. That's all. It's all very disappointing, but not surprising. I've not enjoyed anything by Morrison for a while now, sad to say.
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Cabocomics
New Member
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Looking forward to B and R, GL and Batwoman.
And Deathstroke.
And Deathstroke.
James Kennedy
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I´m not feeling the love for this DC relaunch (reboot?) from bloggers everywhere, and I feel it may be in part since it was not a true reboot (like done way back in the 90´s by DC; or like John Byrne did so poorly for Spider-Man at Marvel a bit later), it can be confusing since there are elements from the Blackest Night aftermath and from Flashpoint that are still lingering, as well as a lot of background infromation we missed out...
I honestly thought we were going to see these series starting from scratch (secret origins, introducing arch villains, the like) but I guess as a starting point for fans you can assume they have been interacting in some kind of universe before this, I just hope the 52 writers get it right and dont miss this chance of a clean cut continuity for us continuity fans out there who can never understand, for e.g., how Wolverine lives in California with the X-Men while patrolling with the New Avengers in New York...while at the same time...he´s dead and IN HELL....but hey, maybe its just me...
Anyway, thought I´d give my short feedback on these 14 Number ones weve had a chance to read so far...I enjoyed most of them, some of them I had to start reading again twice or three times because they were quite poor, but on a ranking from one to five, I would have to say...
5/5 Animal Man...this was the only one really worth the wait so far. Great art, creepy story. Really a big surprise
4.5/5 Swamp Thing...Looking forward for this one, could have done without the Superman cameo. Is it just me or have I seen three different Supermen in three different No.1s?
4.0/5 Action Comics, Justice League...Enjoyed the Morrison writing (not as much as on Batman, but its OK I guess) and the Jim Lee art (I thought the Lantern/Batman dialogues made up for a quite inconclusive plot)
3.5/5 Detective Comics, Stormwatch, Batwing....Really surprised with the African Batman, great art and cliffhanger to match...Stormwatch a very nice mix...Detective Comics I'll have to agree with many and say that I hope Tony Daniel gives up the writing chores to someone else...
3.0/5 Hawk & Dove, Justice League International, Batgirl, Men of War....Really nothing to write home about, easy reading, confusing twists ("THe Killing Joke" - still not getting it), unnecessary superheroes (Men of War), poor attempts of humor (JLI) and by the way, what the hell is Hawk so angry about?
2.5/5 Static Shock, Green Arrow...I will not be following these two
Looking forward to this weeks No.1s! I feel its pilot season on TV
I honestly thought we were going to see these series starting from scratch (secret origins, introducing arch villains, the like) but I guess as a starting point for fans you can assume they have been interacting in some kind of universe before this, I just hope the 52 writers get it right and dont miss this chance of a clean cut continuity for us continuity fans out there who can never understand, for e.g., how Wolverine lives in California with the X-Men while patrolling with the New Avengers in New York...while at the same time...he´s dead and IN HELL....but hey, maybe its just me...
Anyway, thought I´d give my short feedback on these 14 Number ones weve had a chance to read so far...I enjoyed most of them, some of them I had to start reading again twice or three times because they were quite poor, but on a ranking from one to five, I would have to say...
5/5 Animal Man...this was the only one really worth the wait so far. Great art, creepy story. Really a big surprise
4.5/5 Swamp Thing...Looking forward for this one, could have done without the Superman cameo. Is it just me or have I seen three different Supermen in three different No.1s?
4.0/5 Action Comics, Justice League...Enjoyed the Morrison writing (not as much as on Batman, but its OK I guess) and the Jim Lee art (I thought the Lantern/Batman dialogues made up for a quite inconclusive plot)
3.5/5 Detective Comics, Stormwatch, Batwing....Really surprised with the African Batman, great art and cliffhanger to match...Stormwatch a very nice mix...Detective Comics I'll have to agree with many and say that I hope Tony Daniel gives up the writing chores to someone else...
3.0/5 Hawk & Dove, Justice League International, Batgirl, Men of War....Really nothing to write home about, easy reading, confusing twists ("THe Killing Joke" - still not getting it), unnecessary superheroes (Men of War), poor attempts of humor (JLI) and by the way, what the hell is Hawk so angry about?
2.5/5 Static Shock, Green Arrow...I will not be following these two
Looking forward to this weeks No.1s! I feel its pilot season on TV
ProjectX2
Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
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Welcome, James Kennedy. Some nice thoughts. It's interesting that you mention this relaunch is like TV's pilot season considering they are both occurring around the same time. I wonder how many new TV shows I will be watching compared to how many new DC comics I will be reading after the first month.
James Kennedy
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Thanks!!! I am looking forward to "Person of Interest" (Lostalgia with Michael Emerson), "Up all night" and "Unforgettable"...hope other pilots are as good as DC launches...
No - it's not. I agree completely. I hope they take every opportunity to tighten things up. I also hope Marvel does the same with the relaunched Ultimate line.
I guess if they try to tighten things up too much they run into people griping that titles are crossing over too much but I think if they can reference things going on in other books while not making them required reading (Marvel has been particularly terrible at this) it will increase readership for other series.
Using books you sell to sell other books - what a concept.
And welcome, James.
Grocer Man
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know if any of these will be going to trade? I figure it's a safe bet for some of them (Justice League, Action Comics) but surely not all of them.
EDIT: Usually, I'm a trade-waiter. But I decided to get into the spirit of this and go out and buy them off the stands.
My list for this week in no particular order: OMAC, Animal Man, maybe Stormwatch, Batwing, Swamp Thing, maybe Action Comics, maybe Static Shock.
EDIT: Usually, I'm a trade-waiter. But I decided to get into the spirit of this and go out and buy them off the stands.
My list for this week in no particular order: OMAC, Animal Man, maybe Stormwatch, Batwing, Swamp Thing, maybe Action Comics, maybe Static Shock.
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