State of the Franchise: How are they fairing?

[The Overlord]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

Not really, in fact I'd argue they've become more relevant. They are an endangered species fighting tooth and nail to survive, clinging to a shred of hope that things will get better. It's just that the stories being told aren't capitalizing on the new angle. They've basically took the original X-Men concept and turned it on it's ear, where once they were a blossoming new species fighting for mere acceptance, now they are a withering blip on the evolutionary scale fighting to merely survive.

But they really don't have much of an impact anymore, unlike with Morrison's run where they were big enough to have their own sub-culture. Why would anyone even hate them at this point, it seems really pointless to hate a group that only has 198 members, so the fact that there are still all these anti mutant groups around, just seems puzzling.

Plus I'm pretty sure tons of obscure tribes die off all the time and no one really notices, that's what mutants are now. Plus who are they supposed to fight, its not like they can just make some new mutant villains for them to fight and the anti mutant groups just seem silly now. Its pretty much a dead end story wise.

 

[Iceshadow]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

But they really don't have much of an impact anymore, unlike with Morrison's run where they were big enough to have their own sub-culture. Why would anyone even hate them at this point, it seems really pointless to hate a group that only has 198 members, so the fact that there are still all these anti mutant groups around, just seems puzzling.

Plus I'm pretty sure tons of obscure tribes die off all the time and no one really notices, that's what mutants are now. Plus who are they supposed to fight, its not like they can just make some new mutant villains for them to fight and the anti mutant groups just seem silly now. Its pretty much a dead end story wise.

The way it's being shown in X-Force is that because there are so little mutants left, the people that hate them see this as the best opportunity to finish them off. It's like if you were exterminating ants in your backyard and instead of millions you only had a few hundred to go. You're on the home stretch, you'd want to finish the job.

 

[The Overlord]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

The way it's being shown in X-Force is that because there are so little mutants left, the people that hate them see this as the best opportunity to finish them off. It's like if you were exterminating ants in your backyard and instead of millions you only had a few hundred to go. You're on the home stretch, you'd want to finish the job.

But why? At least when there tons of mutants and they were supposed the next evolutionary step, its some what understandable that some people would be afraid of them. Now hating them just petty, pointless and pathetic.

I mean the Purifiers wiped out a town in Alaska just to kill one mutant baby, that seems way over the top and complete overkill, why would anyone support them after that? I mean the KKK would never burn down an entire town just to kill one black guy, they may be evil, but aren't insane.

 

[Iceshadow]

But why? At least when there tons of mutants and they were supposed the next evolutionary step, its some what understandable that some people would be afraid of them. Now hating them just petty, pointless and pathetic.

I mean the Purifiers wiped out a town in Alaska just to kill one mutant baby, that seems way over the top and complete overkill, why would anyone support them after that? I mean the KKK would never burn down an entire town just to kill one black guy, they may be evil, but aren't insane.

While I agree about how that was too extreme, right now the Leper Queen is outfitting captured mutants with a tweaked Legacy Virus and releasing them into highly crowded areas as (unwilling) suicide bombers. And if there's one thing America can't stand it's suicide bombers.

 

[Ice]

While I agree about how that was too extreme, right now the Leper Queen is outfitting captured mutants with a tweaked Legacy Virus and releasing them into highly crowded areas as (unwilling) suicide bombers. And if there's one thing America can't stand it's suicide bombers.

The Leper Queen, eh? I didn't think we'd see her again.

 

[The Overlord]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

While I agree about how that was too extreme, right now the Leper Queen is outfitting captured mutants with a tweaked Legacy Virus and releasing them into highly crowded areas as (unwilling) suicide bombers. And if there's one thing America can't stand it's suicide bombers.

Still don't see how that would lead anyone to support a movement that wipes out an entire town just to kill one baby. After M-Day the anti mutant movement became far less important and far more extreme, which should make them far more irrelevant.

See that brings up another problem if you only have 198 mutants, if you can't kill them off willy nilly, so if you kill some of them off in this suicide bomber and you are limiting yourself even more because you have such a small number of characters to play with.

Anyway I problem I have with the spider-Man franchise is you hardly ever see the classic villains, guys like Dr. Octopus and Electro are never around and instead you have a lot of new lame villains, like Overdrive, who's super power is the ability to drive. The only new villain I like is Mr. Negative. I hope the classic villains are just taking a break and we see them again soon.

 

[Ice]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

Still don't see how that would lead anyone to support a movement that wipes out an entire town just to kill one baby. After M-Day the anti mutant movement became far less important and far more extreme, which should make them far more irrelevant.

See that brings up another problem if you only have 198 mutants, if you can't kill them off willy nilly, so if you kill some of them off in this suicide bomber and you are limiting yourself even more because you have such a small number of characters to play with.

First of all, who has said anything about there having to be support of anti mutant movements? Really, these aren't so much "movements" anyways. It's anti mutant groups doing what they want to do. They are all illegal groups creating illegal acts, so what support do you think they would get as a 'movement'?

And I wouldn't say they are irrelevant. Far from it. For them to be irrelevant there would have to be no mutants at all. Then the anti mutant people would actually be irrelevant. If it's the "same old stuff" that you're actually talking about, then OK, I see what you're saying.

Also, 198 is more of an estimate now anyways, not a for sure given number. I'm not even sure if the public knows of the estimate either. Far as they're concerned, the mutant population is almost gone from what they've seen in reports, but that's about it. I could be wrong and forgot that it was mentioned at some point, but I don't think so.

Anyway I problem I have with the spider-Man franchise is you hardly ever see the classic villains, guys like Dr. Octopus and Electro are never around and instead you have a lot of new lame villains, like Overdrive, who's super power is the ability to drive. The only new villain I like is Mr. Negative. I hope the classic villains are just taking a break and we see them again soon.

Do you ever read articles about all this anyways?

It was said a very long time ago that the classic villains were being "put away for a while" and that new villains were going to be used for a bit to have a little change in Spider-Man's life. And it was mentioned in con reports that the classic villains were going to start returning back once again as we get closer to issue #600. That's why there's a Spot issue coming up. And in #600 is when Doc Ock returns and things are going to get very more interesting in Amazing Spider-Man.

 

[The Overlord]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

First of all, who has said anything about there having to be support of anti mutant movements? Really, these aren't so much "movements" anyways. It's anti mutant groups doing what they want to do. They are all illegal groups creating illegal acts, so what support do you think they would get as a 'movement'?

Well it seemed like that at one point groups like Purifiers and FOH were really popular with the public, Stryker was able to have a massive rally in time's square and Graydon Creed was able to run for President almost solely on the mutant issue. You think a group like the Purifiers who had some PR knowledge in the past, wouldn't do something this over the top and risk becoming very, very unpopular in the process.

And I wouldn't say they are irrelevant. Far from it. For them to be irrelevant there would have to be no mutants at all. Then the anti mutant people would actually be irrelevant. If it's the "same old stuff" that you're actually talking about, then OK, I see what you're saying.

But what's the purpose of these groups now? If mutants are no longer in a position to overtake humanity, what's the purpose of exterminating them? Mutants pose almost no threat now and these groups have become more radical, it seems like a disconnect.

Also, 198 is more of an estimate now anyways, not a for sure given number. I'm not even sure if the public knows of the estimate either. Far as they're concerned, the mutant population is almost gone from what they've seen in reports, but that's about it. I could be wrong and forgot that it was mentioned at some point, but I don't think so.

You still have a limited number of characters to play with, you can no longer just introduce random mutant characters and kill them off for the sake of story, its kinda limiting from a story telling position, you have to be way more careful with the characters.

Do you ever read articles about all this anyways?

No, I haven't because I have better things to do than search the internet for such articles, but that's just me.

It was said a very long time ago that the classic villains were being "put away for a while" and that new villains were going to be used for a bit to have a little change in Spider-Man's life. And it was mentioned in con reports that the classic villains were going to start returning back once again as we get closer to issue #600. That's why there's a Spot issue coming up. And in #600 is when Doc Ock returns and things are going to get very more interesting in Amazing Spider-Man.

You know the wait wouldn't be so bad if the new villains were a bit better then some guy in a souped car.

 

[Ice]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

Well it seemed like that at one point groups like Purifiers and FOH were really popular with the public, Stryker was able to have a massive rally in time's square and Graydon Creed was able to run for President almost solely on the mutant issue. You think a group like the Purifiers who had some PR knowledge in the past, wouldn't do something this over the top and risk becoming very, very unpopular in the process.

The Purifiers now are different, or at least having different people have made them do things differently.

But what's the purpose of these groups now? If mutants are no longer in a position to overtake humanity, what's the purpose of exterminating them? Mutants pose almost no threat now and these groups have become more radical, it seems like a disconnect.

But it was never *just* about mutants overtaking humanity as much as it was them just existing. The whole big case with hatred against them was that they shouldn't have existed in the first place, and as Iceshadow has stated, now the groups want to make sure that happens finally since not so much are left.

You still have a limited number of characters to play with, you can no longer just introduce random mutant characters and kill them off for the sake of story, its kinda limiting from a story telling position, you have to be way more careful with the characters.

Maybe it does limit, but it hasn't really made much a difference anyways. And people will always introduce someone random and then kill them. In fact, I believe that happened recently, but can't remember where. And it doesn't really limit you in a story telling position because it's not like anyone writes a book where they literally use all the characters ever.

No, I haven't because I have better things to do than search the internet for such articles, but that's just me.

There are websites, so there's no "searching" to do really, but we always post things here. Maybe if you didn't make so many question threads you'd see. :wink:

You know the wait wouldn't be so bad if the new villains were a bit better then some guy in a souped car.

I thought Drive was just a one time villain? But I've liked the new villains, for the most part. I mean, I know they have their flaws and all, but they've been decent.