Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Supposedly, I think. I heard people say that, but I'm not sure. I mean, you're not selling it, but like I said, I have no clue, so yeah.....
Seigels half-owners of Superman, says Judge.
- Thread starter Ice
- Start date
Oh jesus christ, let me call the waah-mbulance, it's a ****ing fictional character. Most importantly, that people tend to overlook while fanatically rushing to the creators' side. They SOLD the rights, they signed a binding contract, but through incessant whining and a guilty conscience DC made the horrible mistake of acknowledging the whining. If it weren't for the money put into Superman by National Publication (ne: DC Comics), he would be another side note, like EVERY other character they created.
I mean, we NEVER hear this crap coming from the Bob Kane estate.
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Gothamite
Well-Known Member
Didn't I already say that?
Well...except Batman. Bob Kane was treated correctly from the very start and that's why every single Batman story in any form, ever bears the slogan "Batman created by Bob Kane". He saw all of that money from the very start. "Superman created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster" didn't necessarily start appearing until the late seventies or early eighties. Go back and read some of the earlier stories.
Not to mention, Bob Kane stopped writing/drawing Batman far before Jerry & Joe stopped working on Superman. That should be taken into account, also.
Was it so wrong of Jerry & Joe to request a bit of the same grace for something that was nearly twice as popular?
:wink:
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Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Bob Kane also sold the rights to them for Batman? I learned something new today afterall!
:lol:
Actually, Kane was intelligent, he had a lawyer help negotiate his terms.
Meh, **** it, I'm too tired to deal with it.
Gothamite
Well-Known Member
So...you're saying it's wrong of Siegel & Shuster to completely unknowingly hand over the rights to something (of which they had no idea would be as popular as it turned out to be) and then to later ask for some reward?
Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster created the industry. Bob Kane was just riding the wave. He knew that Batman would be extremely popular, so he had a better inkling of how to handle the character legally.
What a pity.
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Yes. It makes no difference if you are making money of it or not. I have no idea why people think that makes any difference, but it doesn't.
Some companies will go after fanfic, some won't. Some have no desire to see their work used like that, others see it as free promotion. Depends on the company.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Well, when people don't know how certain things work, they just either guess or go by what other say.
But thanks for the clearup.
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
The problem is, Kane's a douche who legally refused to let DC acknowledge the efforts of any other creators in the shaping of the Batman character (Bill Finger, for one).
Gothamite
Well-Known Member
When you look at it though, all Finger really did was make Batman more like a clone of all of the other pulp heroes at the time (The Shadow, the Lone Ranger, et al). Kane's original idea was far more original than what Finger eventually changed it into.
Besides, Kane came up with most of the reasons Batman is still around today. The Joker, The Penguin and Catwoman are all based on ideas that were firmly his. What character did Finger create? Robin. 'Nuff said.
I have no idae what any of this means.:?
ourchair
Well-Known Member
E is correct.
One of the reasons, outside of its potential tool for self-promotion, that 90% of fanfiction doesn't get involved in litigation is because it just isn't financially viable enough for copyright holders to pursue them.
My bank account for example, just isn't worth it for Sierra On-Line to 'sue' me for a Gabriel Knight fanfic I wrote because it is worth far less than the money they spend on lawyers.
That's exactly what I'm saying. National (later DC) did everything above book in both cases. Kane was obviously a more shrewd negotiator. It wasn't S&S that put the money into marketing the character of Superman, and to be brutally honest, he was a horribly bland rip of characters like Doc Samson until other people got involved and began giving him more dimension, and background. So should they be given a share of the characters.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
I don't agree with you entirely, but I can't say I absolutely disagree either.
I really recommend you pick up a copy of The Men of Tomorrow by Gerard Jones, which is a really good book about the origins and creation of Golden Age comic book heroes, particularly Superman... and gives a much fairer (as well as thoroughly researched) look at it to all parties involved.
compound
Well-Known Member
Congratulations, Skotti! You've given me a new sig, right there.
This is the point I fail to express in *literally* half the arguments I get into (with coworkers, with family, with other fans, etc.), and you've just summed it up neatly into one beautifully worded sentence.
If I were arrogant enough to start handing out "Compound points", this would be the first recipient. Bravo!
Heh, I look at how the asian market (japan especially) and they seem to have mastered the "in addition to...".
Like my diatribe of doujinshi. Just like here in the US, fanwork and all other derivatives are technically illegal. With that said though, the japanese publishing industry allows for one weekend a year for fanpublished works to be sold at a convention. Not only does that give a boost to the fans, it helps sell characters and stories not usually explored by one fangroup or another, into new areas. It's also a place for publishers to find new talent.
Granted, Japan is far more literate than the US, but that's an entirely different matter. So imagine if the american comic/publishing industry did something similar, like allowing fan stuff to be published and sold at say, SDCC. I think it'd help the industry pull out of the nosedive it's been in since the end of the speculative era.
McCheese
Well-Known Member
That's what I'm saying. So what if they didn't know how popular Superman would become? If they handed the rights to an intellectual property over to DC then that's their own fault. You sign a contract, you honor the contract.
Exactly.
I really hate the "but they didn't know how popular Superman would be" defense the Siegel camp supporters throw out. Tough ****, that's the risk you take when you sell your rights.
Bass
Nexus of the World
I'm trying really hard... but once my right eyebrow raised, piqued in curiosity, I became more interested in the facial muscle mechanisms that raised said eyebrow than I am in this topic.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Saw this over at Millarworld:
Brian_Knippenberg said:
