Plus - if Marvel is not making as many books, retailers are selling less. If retailers are selling less, Marvel is getting less money.
If there aren't as many books to order there is less money spent on ordering (or NOT ordering) them.
Secret Wars Discussion (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Ice
- Start date
Plus - if Marvel is not making as many books, retailers are selling less. If retailers are selling less, Marvel is getting less money.
If there aren't as many books to order there is less money spent on ordering (or NOT ordering) them.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
I asked my friend who owns the local comic shop and he said retailers can't change the order of delayed comics because of the FOC (Final Order Cutoff) if it's passed. The only time it can be changed is when something is re-solicited.
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Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
I know what you were talking about. That wasn't a reply to what you had just posted above, more of a continuation of what was said before about orders and all.
I meant to post that earlier, but forgot and remembered when I saw a reply to this thread.
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Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
I finally finished reading Hickman's Avengers & New Avengers. I'm two issues into Secret Wars now. Can I just see if I understood what was going on correctly?
The Beyonders (Ivory Kings) created life in the multiverse, but they got tired of it, so they decided to destroy all the universes by creating Molecule Man in each reality, who acts as a bomb, when he dies, destroying that reality. They planned to kill them all at once, ending all of reality and life at the same time.
Doom, with the help of Molecule Man, went back in time and created a myth and religion around himself, becoming Rabum Alal in order to kill all the Molecule Men in the other realities. But doing so has caused the incursions.
The Black Swans are his followers, except the one we've seen a lot of in New Avengers, who is a heretic. She dared to enter Doom's presence and didn't like what she saw (do we know what she saw?) so she, along with some others, turned from Doom's path and began sacrificing earths in order to save the universes they were from.
The early death of the multiverse, caused by Doom, alarmed the Beyonders, who sent their map makers out to find out what was going on. They wrote a virus that infected the space between universes, so that any AI that entered there would turn into a map maker and serve them. The Mapmakers find earths where the Black Swans have killed a Molecule man, and they suck it dry of life and resources, then when the next incursion takes place, they send their pawns, the Sidera Maris, to hold the incursion point on the new world until they can mark it, destroy the old world, and then make their way to the new, marked world. (So I guess their whole deal is that they want to figure out what's going on, but they just destroy the earths as they go, because, why not?)
Also, there are the builders, who are apparently the oldest race of each universe and worship the Universe (or at least used to). They feel they have the responsibility over life, since they created it (I think?) They created the alephs and gardiners and abysses to help them shape the universe (creating new life, culling old life that they think has failed), they try to destroy the earth in order to save their universe from the incursions. But they also destroy whatever life they want to if they find it to be unfit. They also monitor the universes from the superflow and create white events to bless races that are about to become important. They turned Kevin Connor into Starbrand.
Finally, there are also the Black Priests, eventually led by Dr Strange, who are just trying to save the multiverse by destroying earths, sort of like the heretic black swans and the builders. But Strange eventually leads them to battle Rabum Alal, and then finds out Rabum Alal is Dr Doom. The two face the Beyonders together and somehow, Doom creates Battleworld and Dr Strange ends up as his Sheriff, who enforces the law and covers up any "schism" so people don't find out what Doom did.
Is that accurate?
The Beyonders (Ivory Kings) created life in the multiverse, but they got tired of it, so they decided to destroy all the universes by creating Molecule Man in each reality, who acts as a bomb, when he dies, destroying that reality. They planned to kill them all at once, ending all of reality and life at the same time.
Doom, with the help of Molecule Man, went back in time and created a myth and religion around himself, becoming Rabum Alal in order to kill all the Molecule Men in the other realities. But doing so has caused the incursions.
The Black Swans are his followers, except the one we've seen a lot of in New Avengers, who is a heretic. She dared to enter Doom's presence and didn't like what she saw (do we know what she saw?) so she, along with some others, turned from Doom's path and began sacrificing earths in order to save the universes they were from.
The early death of the multiverse, caused by Doom, alarmed the Beyonders, who sent their map makers out to find out what was going on. They wrote a virus that infected the space between universes, so that any AI that entered there would turn into a map maker and serve them. The Mapmakers find earths where the Black Swans have killed a Molecule man, and they suck it dry of life and resources, then when the next incursion takes place, they send their pawns, the Sidera Maris, to hold the incursion point on the new world until they can mark it, destroy the old world, and then make their way to the new, marked world. (So I guess their whole deal is that they want to figure out what's going on, but they just destroy the earths as they go, because, why not?)
Also, there are the builders, who are apparently the oldest race of each universe and worship the Universe (or at least used to). They feel they have the responsibility over life, since they created it (I think?) They created the alephs and gardiners and abysses to help them shape the universe (creating new life, culling old life that they think has failed), they try to destroy the earth in order to save their universe from the incursions. But they also destroy whatever life they want to if they find it to be unfit. They also monitor the universes from the superflow and create white events to bless races that are about to become important. They turned Kevin Connor into Starbrand.
Finally, there are also the Black Priests, eventually led by Dr Strange, who are just trying to save the multiverse by destroying earths, sort of like the heretic black swans and the builders. But Strange eventually leads them to battle Rabum Alal, and then finds out Rabum Alal is Dr Doom. The two face the Beyonders together and somehow, Doom creates Battleworld and Dr Strange ends up as his Sheriff, who enforces the law and covers up any "schism" so people don't find out what Doom did.
Is that accurate?
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I'm not totally sure.
It is really, really complicated. Maybe needlessly so.
It's not a "fun" kind of complicated like his Fantastic Four was.
I intend, at some point in my life, to find some annotations and re-read the whole thing.
wyokid
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Yes. I had to write it all out myself once as well just to make sure I got it all. It incredibly over complicated to build up suspense by not knowing who the actual players are well creating new cosmic forces while the old ones are being slaughtered by the Beyonders. That Thor and Hyperion moment was pretty cool.
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
I like the idea that there were several huge problems that were overwhelming and incomprehensible, and that they were all symptoms of a greater threat. Even the incursions came about as a side effect of Doom's attempt to thwart the Beyonders' original scheme (although, they also caused Doom to realize something was wrong, so they are kind of paradoxical). It's like a slightly more understandable Final Crisis.
But it seems like the whole thing got just a bit too big for Hickman and he wasn't able to bring it together in a way that makes sense. Even just the fact that the Black Swan we knew about was a heretic seems like Hickman had a plan for them and then realized he was going to have to do something different.
At some point I want to go back and read Hickman's F4/FF, Ultimates, SHIELD, and this again straight through in a relatively short amount of time. I think that would help a lot.
wyokid
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Don't forget Secret Warriors. It ties in too.
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Yeah...but I don't really want to read that again. How does it tie in? With the zodiac wheel thing?
That's a really good way of describing it. The level of confusion is very similar.
wyokid
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Final Crisis was confusing?
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Almost everything Morrison writes is confusing - Final Crisis was a whole different level of confusing.
I don't find this a problem with his books at all - in fact, I love that his books demand multiple readings to really get.
But I didn't get that with Final Crisis. Once I was done with it I was relieved.
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
I'm caught up.
So Thing was the Shield/wall keeping the zombies out?
So Thing was the Shield/wall keeping the zombies out?
wyokid
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The thing about Final Crisis is it is a build up of literally everything he has done at DC. Animal Man, Seven Soldiers, etc. Actually, I could see how it didn't make a lick of sense if you haven't read everything. I apologize. CC your pic isn't appear for me.
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Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Exactly, just like Secret Wars is the culmination of everything Hickman ever did for Marvel.
It's the rubick's cube thing. "17" [explosion]
wyokid
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Found the page you're talking about in my copy, 18 is the number of moves it takes to solve a Rubik's cube. Metron solved the cube and activated a Motherbox. I'm sorry if I am not answering your question, I am still not sure what you're confused about.
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Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
It wasn't a question, I understand what happened. I was just giving an example of a "what the crap?!?" moment in the story. Final Crisis, like everything Morrison writes, but even more so than usual, was a weird, abstract, way out there, and confusing story.
wyokid
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I guess mileage will vary from reader to reader. I personally don't really have trouble understanding Morrison comics. I've also researched his life and have read most of his work though so I am very attuned to his thinking process. I remember the first thing I read was Arkham Asylum and even in high school I was just blown away by his take. So dark and twisted, but whimsical and full of heart still. I loved the psychological deconstruction of Batman and his foes. If you haven't read it I highly recommend it. I also cannot recommend Seaguy enough. That's his ultimate commentary on the comic industry and fighting against the broody and tortured hero concept.
