Pride of Baghdad Discussion **Spoilers**

TheManWithoutFear said:
I think one of the main things people are missing about the story was just who the main characters are.

Were they really the "good guys". I thought it depicted these characters even moreso human than any other story. I didn't feel bad they were starving. I felt a disgust at some of their actions. They were portrayed as animals pretty accurately. But all I hear is "poor lions got killed." I'm not saying they deserve it by anymeans but if anything this story was the perfect example of cycle of life. Kill or be killed and do what you can to survive.
Click to expand...


Exactly. I mean you feel for the characters---yes. But many are losing perspective on who these characters really are. Lions.

It's like that Robert Redford movie "The Last Castle". The film tried to make you feel bad for these inmates who used to be soldiers, Marines, etc. But the fact remains that these guys were locked up because they were killers, rapists, etc.

Sympathy for the lions is good and all......but they were just in fact lions.
 
I went and got this today and just finished it.

Holy Crap. I don't even know where to begin. This is probably one of the best graphic novels I have ever read. The art was beatiful and the story was absolutely amazing. The ending was completely shocking. I would reccomend this book to anyone. I'm 100% satisfied that I bought this. It was more than worth the $20.

6/5
 
I am surprised I havent already posted in here, but to echo what everyone else has been saying, this is brilliant.

There's a BKV signing in Manhattan tomorrow, and I'm tempted to go, but don't think I'll be able to...

:(
 
Victor Von Doom said:
Exactly. I mean you feel for the characters---yes. But many are losing perspective on who these characters really are. Lions.

It's like that Robert Redford movie "The Last Castle". The film tried to make you feel bad for these inmates who used to be soldiers, Marines, etc. But the fact remains that these guys were locked up because they were killers, rapists, etc.

Sympathy for the lions is good and all......but they were just in fact lions.
Click to expand...

The lions werent locked because they were killed. They were locked because they were lions. And that specific group of lions did nothing bad, they could killed that cantaloupe but they spared it. Yes, they are "good guys" they are portraited as such. Hey, If I saw some ****ing lions in front of me I would shot them too. But they were more then lions, BKV made sure of it.
And that turtle story was just so sad.
 
Just finished reading it.


Wow.


This book is simply amazing. I don't know how else I can put how incredible this story was in both writing and art.


I really didn't expect the ending like that. It's very sad and yet so good in story telling terms. I really thought they were going to live on somewhat peacefully for the rest of their lives.


One of the best stories of all time.

E said:
Ice are you going to this?
Click to expand...
Nope. :D

Victor Von Doom said:
Exactly. I mean you feel for the characters---yes. But many are losing perspective on who these characters really are. Lions.

It's like that Robert Redford movie "The Last Castle". The film tried to make you feel bad for these inmates who used to be soldiers, Marines, etc. But the fact remains that these guys were locked up because they were killers, rapists, etc.

Sympathy for the lions is good and all......but they were just in fact lions.
Click to expand...
I don't care that they were just in fact lions. That changed nothing for me. I knew 'what they were', but I don't see how that makes anything different.
 
Last edited:
Ice said:
I don't care that they were just in fact lions. That changed nothing for me. I knew 'what they were', but I don't see how that makes anything different.
Click to expand...

Yeah, haven't you seen the Lion King when Mustafa deid, it w-was.... Give me a moment :cry:
 
Last edited:
I hadn't, like so many of you fools, spoiled PRIDE OF BAGHDAD by reading this thread.

I read the comic last night.

I was really beautiful. The art was exquisite, and the story was wonderfully told. Really great.

Until the stupid ending where BKV decides to kill all the lions. AAAAAA! What a ****ing cliche. "The most dangerous animal of all - is man." That hasn't been original since PLANET OF THE APES. The turtle - I loved the turtle, until he did the whole, "Turtles are dying because of PEOPLE!" crap.

I know, there's a recurring theme in the comic of war and destruction, and that man's weapons will kill the animals indiscriminately and the animals can't fully comprehend what's happening, I know, I get that. But the ending - I didn't get sad, I just got completely ****ing angry - but not at the soldiers or the US, but at BKV.

Throughout the comic I was going, "Please - don't kill any of the lions." I'm sick and tired of these beautiful animal stories where one of them has to die. It's like killing the PI's partner in a film noir - it's such a goddam cliche. Kill off one of the cutesy animals so that Ali has to grow up. And BKV killed them all instead of having an ending.

What I found amusing about the ending was that "curiosity killed the cat".

But yeah - I thought the ending was totally ****. The only saving grace, for me, was the line, "There were other causalities as well."

But, pretty much everything up to and including that red horizon sunset?

Absolutely gorgeous. Zill and Ali's plan to take down the bear was really clever. The antelope and 'keeper' scene were great as well. Truly terrific.

Random said:
Yeah, haven't you seen the Lion King when Mustafa deid, it w-was.... Give me a moment :cry:
Click to expand...

Every time I watch that film, somehow, I manage to convince myself that this time, Mustafa will get up and... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
 
It was based on true events. How would the lions survive?

I think you're misinterpreting (sp?) the ending. To me, it wasn't saying that "the most dangerous animal is humans". It had something else going on.
 
Bass said:
I hadn't, like so many of you fools, spoiled PRIDE OF BAGHDAD by reading this thread.

I read the comic last night.

I was really beautiful. The art was exquisite, and the story was wonderfully told. Really great.
Click to expand...

That's a relief, I don't like uglies.
 
I know it's based on true events, and I'm sure BKV thought it was amazing that lions could survive be totally safe and secure in a Baghdad zoo, then the US army shows up, they survive a bombing, prowl the streets of Baghdad completely starving, somehow symbolically juxtaposing the savagery of the jungle and the savagery of war, only to get shot, accidentally on purpose, by US marines.

I'm sure the story is about the accidental casualties of war and how no matter the justification for it, there's a true problem when it comes to civilian casualities.

But, as you say, it was based on true events. The antelope, the bear, the monkeys, the savannah gang bang - I'm pretty sure BKV probably made them up in whole or in part and stuffed them in. He could've, if he'd wanted to, had them survive, or had them die in another fashion. It was based on those events - its not a documentary. If he can change one bit, he can change as much as he wants, which means that it's not a valid defence for story decisions.

As for the survival of the lions - maybe they should die. I can see that as an ending - but not just shot by a US marine out of nowhere. I honestly don't know what the ending is - but as I was reading it, I felt that the ending would be that they'd find 'heaven' (ie a house with a swimming pool like the one they saw - something gorgeous) and live there, and when the humans showed up, they'd all be faced with the decision of freedom or another zoo. Maybe Ali, young and spoiled, refuses to give up their mansion and refuses a zoo, and wants to keep his new home. Maybe Zill is happy to belong to a zoo. Noor, having had enough 'freedom' during the war, is happy to return to the zoo. And Safa, blind and old, wants to just be left alone and runs. Or maybe they all fight and die. Or all run. Or all go with the keepers back to the zoo. Maybe not. But at least - at least these characters are in some way the cause of their ending through their choices and desires. To simply just wipe them out at the end - it removes all meaning from the story and then hopes with a couple of fancy pictures and words and a cliched "war is bad" message, it can overlay a message on top of the story, a message I don't think, this story was ever trying to tell.

But as I say, all the stuff before it was grand.
 
Bass said:
I know it's based on true events, and I'm sure BKV thought it was amazing that lions could survive be totally safe and secure in a Baghdad zoo, then the US army shows up, they survive a bombing, prowl the streets of Baghdad completely starving, somehow symbolically juxtaposing the savagery of the jungle and the savagery of war, only to get shot, accidentally on purpose, by US marines.

I'm sure the story is about the accidental casualties of war and how no matter the justification for it, there's a true problem when it comes to civilian casualities.

But, as you say, it was based on true events. The antelope, the bear, the monkeys, the savannah gang bang - I'm pretty sure BKV probably made them up in whole or in part and stuffed them in. He could've, if he'd wanted to, had them survive, or had them die in another fashion. It was based on those events - its not a documentary. If he can change one bit, he can change as much as he wants, which means that it's not a valid defence for story decisions.

As for the survival of the lions - maybe they should die. I can see that as an ending - but not just shot by a US marine out of nowhere. I honestly don't know what the ending is - but as I was reading it, I felt that the ending would be that they'd find 'heaven' (ie a house with a swimming pool like the one they saw - something gorgeous) and live there, and when the humans showed up, they'd all be faced with the decision of freedom or another zoo. Maybe Ali, young and spoiled, refuses to give up their mansion and refuses a zoo, and wants to keep his new home. Maybe Zill is happy to belong to a zoo. Noor, having had enough 'freedom' during the war, is happy to return to the zoo. And Safa, blind and old, wants to just be left alone and runs. Or maybe they all fight and die. Or all run. Or all go with the keepers back to the zoo. Maybe not. But at least - at least these characters are in some way the cause of their ending through their choices and desires. To simply just wipe them out at the end - it removes all meaning from the story and then hopes with a couple of fancy pictures and words and a cliched "war is bad" message, it can overlay a message on top of the story, a message I don't think, this story was ever trying to tell.

But as I say, all the stuff before it was grand.
Click to expand...
He could have changed it yes, but that wasn't the point of this all, which seems you're missing it or just won't understand it. Everything that's based on true events, whether its a tv show, movie, etc. always has the same ending, but what happens in the middle of the story doesn't play out the same way. It might not even start out the same way, but it ends the same way, which is how this story did.

You can be mad at BKV, but you're being mad at him for the wrong reasons.
 
Last edited:
I don't think so. "This story is based on a true story" is often used to legitimize stories that otherwise are devoid of meaning. As if, somehow by being more 'real', it's more important.

The lions have to die at the end. That's what the integrity of the story requires. Fine. But the integrity of the story doesn't require them to be shot out of nowhere by some US marines at a random point in the story after they've run out of incidental adventures to give the pride.

The Spartans have to die at the end of 300 according to Frank Miller and Zack Snyder. So they build that scene up, they craft that scene to have meaning, and make it the point of the story.

They don't make it a footnote to another story featuring the same characters.

The reason I'm pissed at BKV is the story he wrote about lions escaping a zoo during a war, to me, is not the same story as the one which ends, "lions get shot by US marines". He took the 'true story' ending, came up with a great middle to a wicked Disney movie, and flumped them together, and I think it didn't work at all.
 
Bass said:
The Spartans have to die at the end of 300 according to Frank Miller and Zack Snyder. So they build that scene up, they craft that scene to have meaning, and make it the point of the story.
Click to expand...

Exactly, in fact the ending had Leonidas Dying last when i historically that wasn't the case
 
I liked the ending. It was sudden and unexpected. It made me sad that life is rather short and pointless, and we spend it trying to kill each other.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top