Please, Marvel, I'm begging you

[Guijllons]

And if Morrison did employ some intelligent foreshadowing and intelligent lead up in these books, then I would grant him more respect as a writer. Because he didn't show these attributes in the New X-Men title.

 

[Bass]

Actually, I think he did in New X-Men. (He definately does in the ones I mentioned.) The problem with New X-Men is that it only really works if you read it all back to back, which I did several months ago. All of a sudden, I was able to put pieces together, like Sublime and kick and Magneto and human aggression, things I just did not notice earlier. I think this is part Morrison's fault (for not making it more accessible month by month) and partly my fault (for not paying enough attention). I found the run pretty okay whilst reading it as it came out, but reading it all together - I was blown away.

 

[compound]

Guys, while you may think Morrison may not have set it up, his track record would suggest otherwise. He often, when he starts a title, works out where the title is going, years down the road. The Invisibles, Animal Man, and Doom Patrol are all such titles. And I'd really recommend his Doom Patrol work, which is beautiful.

Hmmm... When you put it THAT way, i'm now starting to believe that Morrison wanted Xorn to be Mags from the very beginning, but he faced inevitable editorial conflicts for proposing such a big revelation. Perhaps he had the decision in mind from the very start, but he wasn't able to foreshadow it sufficiently because of constraints from the higher-ups? I guess only a Marvel insider could ever truly answer that.

Manila-based artist Leinil Yu -- who illustrated Xorn's first appearance in NXM Annual 2001 -- did NOT know he was drawing Magneto's alter-ego when he was given the script for that issue. I know this, first-hand, because I asked him about it *personally*, when his band, Marty McFly, played at Geek Rock Night at the defunct (and much lamented) Quezon City rock venue, Millennia. (That was in early '03, not long after the big revelation during "Planet X".)

 

[Guijllons]

Actually, I think he did in New X-Men. (He definately does in the ones I mentioned.) The problem with New X-Men is that it only really works if you read it all back to back, which I did several months ago. All of a sudden, I was able to put pieces together, like Sublime and kick and Magneto and human aggression, things I just did not notice earlier. I think this is part Morrison's fault (for not making it more accessible month by month) and partly my fault (for not paying enough attention). I found the run pretty okay whilst reading it as it came out, but reading it all together - I was blown away.

I did read it back to back. There was no clear indication that Morrison had a larger plan when he introduced Xorn, nor that there was any threat to the X-men in relation to his arrival, nor any threat to the X-men unrelated to xorn that may have been in some way connected to him.
While reading, it felt forced and contrived and a turnabout. At least to me.
And if that's the case, then I'd say that his story failed at least part of his audience.

 

[Bass]

Ah... okay. I getcha. Still, I find it highly unlikely that he didn't have it all planned considering his track record (he's currently doing it in The Seven Soldiers of Victory).

 

[Guijllons]

I'm taking this story on face value. Everyone ****s up.

 

[Bass]

True. Morrison himself has said that the story has already dated, that it captured the fear of a 911 time, which has now passed.

Also, he ****ed up with the Filth, which was just dull, in my opinion.

 

[compound]

Ah... okay. I getcha. Still, I find it highly unlikely that he didn't have it all planned considering his track record (he's currently doing it in The Seven Soldiers of Victory).

Thing is, he was able to get away with that precise level of narrative coordination in The Invisibles or Doom Patrol or Seven Soldiers *precisely* because he is/was dealing with a bunch of characters who are/were either (a) completely his own creations, or (b)viewed as perennial B-listers.

With the other projects mentioned, Morisson has/had license to mess around with continuity and foreshadow long-term status quo changes because he's not beholden to a cult of personality -- like Magneto's -- which has a very specific history, and a clear-cut role in the greater comic universe, and (let's face it) lucrative cross-media appeal on the strength of a *particular* version of his character (brash, despotic, megalomaniacal, and without need for such extensive subterfuge).

 

[Bass]

I don't know what you're saying Compound, it's not making any sense to me. What's your point? :???:

Also, I believe one thing you said is Morrison didn't have enough freedom on X-Men due to the high-profile nature of the work - I remember hearing somewhere (rumour alert) that Morrison didn't tell anyone that Xorn was Magneto. Not even the editors. He probably hid it too well. I don't know. But I do know that when he was hired, Marvel told him specifically to shake things up, and I do know that he publicly stated that he wasn't going to bring Magneto back (but in the same breath said, "That guy always comes back. Maybe it's his second mutation." Which is what Magneto says in reference to his own return). I dunno, Morrison does the whole long-term planning schtick a lot. I find it unlikely that this one epic is exempt from that.

 

[compound]

*moving somewhat off-topic*

Also, he ****ed up with the Filth, which was just dull, in my opinion.

Ohmigod! I am SO relieved that somebody else feels this way... I was seriously worried that I just didn't "get" it, and the story was going over my head.

The Filth, thematically, felt like Morrison was pissing all over the youthful idealism of Invisibles... it seemed to be arguing that if you wanted to keep dressing in crazy outfits, and fighting 'the system' beyond a certain age, then you must be genuinely out of touch with 'reality' (whatever THAT is). Better to find simple pleasures in your cat. Or flowers. Or something like that.

Honestly, I didn't understand a lot of it... It felt disjointed and episodic, but I kept looking for some grand, over-arching narrative, only because that's what i'd come to expect from his other, similarly epic work.

 

[Bass]

Yes, my friends have also expressed relief when I say I thought Filth was rubbish (ironic really, or appropriate I suppose), obviously this is because my opinion carries more weight than you pathetic miscreants.

But, part of me thinks I didn't give Filth enough of a chance, as I never bought #2. I just read #1, thought it was awful, and never picked the rest up. Maybe I'll download the trade and give it a shot - though I doubt it.

 

[moonmaster]

I read all of Morisson's run, but all this new crap with Xorn just confuses the hell out of me. It felt like they just ****ed up Morisson's work for stupid reasons. Why couldn't they have just left the story as it was?

I think Morisson planned the Magneto thing from the start. Adding it in part of the way through his run just sounds too half assed, and I don't think Millar would do it. I can understand the arguement though considering the lack of clues until far into his run.

 

[Guijllons]

It wasn't just the lack of clues, there was a definite shift in personality.
Far too late to make it feel as though Xorn wasn't the real deal all along.

 

[Goodwill]

My sentiments as well.

 

[E]

Morrison has also, a series of unconnected events occur,

Oh, they're connected. The reader doesn't know about it as it's happening. EVERYTHING ties together in the end.

There was no foreshadowing that it was really Magneto, just one day he started acting funny, and the next issue he was Magneto.
It was pretty lame i thought.

Disagreed - notice that the only people that Xorn "healed" were infected with nanosentinels, which were metal. What happened when they brought him to heal Quentin? He claimed that he wasn't meant to heal him, and instead turned and healed Scott (I think it was), who was infected with - you guessed it - nanosentinels.

 

[moonmaster]

Disagreed - notice that the only people that Xorn "healed" were infected with nanosentinels, which were metal. What happened when they brought him to heal Quentin? He claimed that he wasn't meant to heal him, and instead turned and healed Scott (I think it was), who was infected with - you guessed it - nanosentinels.

Good point.

 

[Bass]

Oh, they're connected. The reader doesn't know about it as it's happening. EVERYTHING ties together in the end.

Oh I know that. I was just describing the story, and at that moment, all the events seem unconnected at that time. They do connect indeed, I was just trying to quickly recreate the feeling of chaos that surrounded the arc as it barrelled towards its climax.

 

[E]

Oh I know that. I was just describing the story, and at that moment, all the events seem unconnected at that time. They do connect indeed, I was just trying to quickly recreate the feeling of chaos that surrounded the arc as it barrelled towards its climax.

I knew you knew, I was just saying for anyone who hadn't read it.

 

[Bass]

I knew you knew, I was just saying for anyone who hadn't read it.

Oh, I knew you knew that I knew that you knew, and I knew that you knew I knew you knew.

 

[ourchair]

Oh, I knew you knew that I knew that you knew, and I knew that you knew I knew you knew.

So if you knew that E knew that you knew that E knew, why was it not made known that he had known that you had known, and spare everyone who didn't know the tedium of having to be told what they didn't know?