Not just anybody

[Ice]

And how about Storm being a thief instead of an African Psuedo-Goddess?

Dude, dude. She was a thief in both worlds, you know that right? You're making it sound like she wasn't at all in 616. Just make sure you write your sentences so they can come off they way you mean it.

 

[E]

The Characters are still the same from the 616 universe, but like you said, with subtle changes. What's the diff?

Wait a minute - are you calling a healing factor and a brain growing through his body a subtle change?! I don't follow.

 

[Ice]

Wait a minute - are you calling a healing factor and a brain growing through his body a subtle change?! I don't follow.

"You...you have me at a low.....AND YOU STILL DO!!"


Oi...Hawkeye101...oi

 

[Hawkeye101]

"You...you have me at a low.....AND YOU STILL DO!!"


Oi...Hawkeye101...oi

Okay, I give at the REDICULOUS healing factor, but you guys are treating the brain deal like it's a disease. So?

It is a sublte difference. Weather or not you'd like to think so. Tony can prance around as a normal guy, and you all can invision him in such a way. Yes, granted, that healing factor is out-there, but Tony, otherwise, is still Tony. His 'character' has not changed. As stated before he's still a drunken womanizing CEO. If anything why aren't any of you upset that the Ultimate Tony is 'settling down' unlike 616 version.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

*Jumps up and down like a spoiled brat* Why isn't this closed!!!!....? :x

 

[Ice]

Okay, I give at the REDICULOUS healing factor, but you guys are treating the brain deal like it's a disease. So?

It is a sublte difference. Weather or not you'd like to think so. Tony can prance around as a normal guy, and you all can invision him in such a way. Yes, granted, that healing factor is out-there, but Tony, otherwise, is still Tony. His 'character' has not changed. As stated before he's still a drunken womanizing CEO. If anything why aren't any of you upset that the Ultimate Tony is 'settling down' unlike 616 version.

Ok, in 616, Tony had a heart problem. I don't even want to ask for an explanation on how his whole body being a brain in the UU is a "subtle" change. Though I'm very afraid you're going to tell us anyways.

 

[E]

It is a sublte difference.

:lol:

I think I'm done here.

 

[Ice]

Guys, CHILL OUT!

Post things with civilized manners, otherwise, DON'T!

 

[Hawkeye101]

Guys, CHILL OUT!

Post things with civilized manners, otherwise, DON'T!

What'd you do? Erase my post? Oh, that makes me feel better. :evil:

 

[E]

What'd you do? Erase my post? Oh, that makes me feel better. :evil:

MwoF was out of line but he wasn't being condescending, and I apologize if I came across that way.

All I meant was that if you think the changes made to Tony Stark were subtle differences, then you don't and will never see the series or the character as I see him, and continuing would be pointless.

 

[DIrishB]

Wait a minute - are you calling a healing factor and a brain growing through his body a subtle change?! I don't follow.

It is a sublte difference. Weather or not you'd like to think so. Tony can prance around as a normal guy, and you all can invision him in such a way. Yes, granted, that healing factor is out-there, but Tony, otherwise, is still Tony. His 'character' has not changed. As stated before he's still a drunken womanizing CEO. If anything why aren't any of you upset that the Ultimate Tony is 'settling down' unlike 616 version.

It appears thats exactly what he's saying.

MwoF was out of line but he wasn't being condescending, and I apologize if I came across that way.

All I meant was that if you think the changes made to Tony Stark were subtle differences, then you don't and will never see the series or the character as I see him, and continuing would be pointless.

Good way of putting it...once again.

 

[ourchair]

Your arguement that anybody could be Iron Man is pointless. Tony Stark is a genius who (looking at what Millar has said in U2 and disregarding UIM) overcame a lot of problems that all that intelligence and money caused. He overcame them and managed to become one of the richest, smartest, and most well-liked people on the planet. The Iron Man suit means nothing. Even if he had not created it, he still would've created some sort of technology in order to help mankind. Its not the tech, its the motivation. If many people had access to the kinds of technology Tony had access to, I'm guaranteeing you they'd misuse it. Tony is "different" because he was highly intelligent and rich and instead of using all that power to hurt people he used it to help them, which is something most people wouldn't.

I like your explanation because it paves the way to an even more interesting angle about Tony's character.

Iron Man ISN'T a guy in a battlearmor, he's a guy who uses his smarts and his moxie to overcome his problems to acquire vast personal fortune and success but more importantly, develop some crazy-*** supertech that he uses to help mankind at the risk of his own life.

Yes, 'anybody can be Iron Man', but only if you define the Iron Man as just a guy in armored supertech, in which case the statement makes about as much sense as 'anybody can wear a high-tech supersuit and blast people down'. Not a fundamentally false statement but that's not what Tony Stark/Iron Man is.

FIRST: Tony Stark's a billionaire playboy who has overcome his own personal character flaws whether its his ladies man attitude, tendency for self-absorption, gravitation towards alcoholism and occasional tunnel vision to help mankind and fight evil in the very technology he developed.

He could easily pay someone else to don that armor (and as far as I know he has, but that's neither here or there), but the fact that he does it himself is testament to a character strength in him that makes him different from the guy who gives money to Habitat for Humanity or Greenpeace.

When Tony fights, he's not just contributing in the fight against what he thinks is evil, HE IS FIGHTING what he thinks is evil. Tony Stark is not your garden variety philanthropist because he puts his money --- and his life --- where his corporate mouth is.

SECOND: The fact that Tony Stark's personal heroism manifests itself as a guy shoving his warm human body into a cold armored shell of destruction, the fact that Tony Stark gets the name Iron Man because of this is completely incidental.

Tony Stark could easily be wearing one of those new intelligent impact-fiber suits, or he could be sporting cybernetic death vision or shredder cords made of molecularized razor wire, but he'd still be the same kind of hero --- using his vast fortune and technology to fight for the things he believes in, even though he could very well retreat into his bedroom and swill booze every morning.

Its Tony Stark's capacity to overcome his own self-absorbed personality to actually be selfless that makes him Iron Man. And this is exactly why Orson Scott Card will burn in hell.

 

[E]

Its Tony Stark's capacity to overcome his own self-absorbed personality to actually be selfless that makes him Iron Man. And this is exactly why Orson Scott Card will burn in hell.

That....is profound. :shock:

 

[DIrishB]

I like your explanation because it paves the way to an even more interesting angle about Tony's character.

Iron Man ISN'T a guy in a battlearmor, he's a guy who uses his smarts and his moxie to overcome his problems to acquire vast personal fortune and success but more importantly, develop some crazy-*** supertech that he uses to help mankind at the risk of his own life.

Yes, 'anybody can be Iron Man', but only if you define the Iron Man as just a guy in armored supertech, in which case the statement makes about as much sense as 'anybody can wear a high-tech supersuit and blast people down'. Not a fundamentally false statement but that's not what Tony Stark/Iron Man is.

FIRST: Tony Stark's a billionaire playboy who has overcome his own personal character flaws whether its his ladies man attitude, tendency for self-absorption, gravitation towards alcoholism and occasional tunnel vision to help mankind and fight evil in the very technology he developed.

Those are considered character flaws? Oh.

He could easily pay someone else to don that armor (and as far as I know he has, but that's neither here or there), but the fact that he does it himself is testament to a character strength in him that makes him different from the guy who gives money to Habitat for Humanity or Greenpeace.

When Tony fights, he's not just contributing in the fight against what he thinks is evil, HE IS FIGHTING what he thinks is evil. Tony Stark is not your garden variety philanthropist because he puts his money --- and his life --- where his corporate mouth is.

SECOND: The fact that Tony Stark's personal heroism manifests itself as a guy shoving his warm human body into a cold armored shell of destruction, the fact that Tony Stark gets the name Iron Man because of this is completely incidental.

Tony Stark could easily be wearing one of those new intelligent impact-fiber suits, or he could be sporting cybernetic death vision or shredder cords made of molecularized razor wire, but he'd still be the same kind of hero --- using his vast fortune and technology to fight for the things he believes in, even though he could very well retreat into his bedroom and swill booze every morning.

Its Tony Stark's capacity to overcome his own self-absorbed personality to actually be selfless that makes him Iron Man. And this is exactly why Orson Scott Card will burn in hell.

Nice write-up Ourchair.

 

[UltimateScarletWitch]

Those are considered character flaws? Oh.



Nice write-up Ourchair.

May I just speak up and say (and I know I'm new) but all of you are defending who Tony Stark is, not Iron Man which is what I believe that one guy is pointing out. He's saying that he does like the fact that Tony is in fact Iron Man (the guy in the suit) but anybody else can be Iron Man. Never once did he say anyone can be Tony. This is true and always will be, but Iron Man (the Iron suit) can be replaced by anyone. To an extent I have to agree with him there, In the Ultimates Annual, they are coming up with replacements to Captain America, and ya know what, that idea sucks. Captain America is Steve Rogers, no matter how you want to portray the guy, same with Tony, but making him something that isn't as easily replaceable makes some sense when you are trying to keep Tony himslef in the Iron Man out fit (now granted Sabretooth, Wolverine and Deadpool all have healing factors).

Just Playing Devil's advocate

 

[DIrishB]

May I just speak up and say (and I know I'm new) but all of you are defending who Tony Stark is, not Iron Man which is what I believe that one guy is pointing out. He's saying that he does like the fact that Tony is in fact Iron Man (the guy in the suit) but anybody else can be Iron Man. Never once did he say anyone can be Tony. This is true and always will be, but Iron Man (the Iron suit) can be replaced by anyone. To an extent I have to agree with him there, In the Ultimates Annual, they are coming up with replacements to Captain America, and ya know what, that idea sucks. Captain America is Steve Rogers, no matter how you want to portray the guy, same with Tony, but making him something that isn't as easily replaceable makes some sense when you are trying to keep Tony himslef in the Iron Man out fit (now granted Sabretooth, Wolverine and Deadpool all have healing factors).

Just Playing Devil's advocate

What everyone is saying (well, most) is that they don't like the way Tony is portrayed in the mini. We don't like the fact that Card felt the need to "explain" Tony's intelligence level (Reed's is never explained or reasoned, it just is). The fact that he did so kind of detracts from the character in the sense that its almost like a crutch, much like his new healing factor. One of the more well-liked aspects of Iron Man is he's just a regular guy in a suit doing his thing to make the world a better place. Now he's a super-smart mutant in a suit with a healing factor. Thats not Iron Man in any universe is what we're saying. That's Wolverine with a better attitude and bulkier costume. The final nail in the coffin is Card's total disregard for any of Ultimate Tony's/Iron Man's previous history in this universe, basically creating more continuity discrepancies in a story that really isn't worth the paper its printed on. Thats what we're saying, not arguing over who should or could be Iron Man. That's really not the point.

 

[UltimateScarletWitch]

What everyone is saying (well, most) is that they don't like the way Tony is portrayed in the mini. We don't like the fact that Card felt the need to "explain" Tony's intelligence level (Reed's is never explained or reasoned, it just is). The fact that he did so kind of detracts from the character in the sense that its almost like a crutch, much like his new healing factor. One of the more well-liked aspects of Iron Man is he's just a regular guy in a suit doing his thing to make the world a better place. Now he's a super-smart mutant in a suit with a healing factor. Thats not Iron Man in any universe is what we're saying. That's Wolverine with a better attitude and bulkier costume. The final nail in the coffin is Card's total disregard for any of Ultimate Tony's/Iron Man's previous history in this universe, basically creating more continuity discrepancies in a story that really isn't worth the paper its printed on. Thats what we're saying, not arguing over who should or could be Iron Man. That's really not the point.

The bold part reminded me of Megamorphs. I took one look at that and almost puked.

Anyway, as much as I agree that Iron Man worked as just a guy in a suit, Reed has a super ability. He's set, so unless plastic man is going to make a dimensional trip to the marvel universe, he's set. He is the uber stretchy guy. Tony, a lot of people are drunks, a lot of people are womanizers, a lot of people are CEO's. And yes I'm sure there are plenty of people who are all three. And you are right, how many of them would hop in an assault suit and risk their necks? The answer is probably none. But giving Tony a little something more might just hold him to the Iron Man suit itself (and I am fully aware that a brain body and a colossal uber healing factor is not a little something more). Anyways... yeah, Tony shouldn't have what Orson Scott Card gave him, but he should be given something that holds him in place as Iron Man though, and it doesn't nessisarily have to be a super power.

 

[DIrishB]

The bold part reminded me of Megamorphs. I took one look at that and almost puked.

This is just further proof that direct marketing for a children's toy or video game doesn't work in comic books. And rarely on TV, with one of the exceptions being He-Man.

Anyway, as much as I agree that Iron Man worked as just a guy in a suit, Reed has a super ability. He's set, so unless plastic man is going to make a dimensional trip to the marvel universe, he's set. He is the uber stretchy guy. Tony, a lot of people are drunks, a lot of people are womanizers, a lot of people are CEO's. And yes I'm sure there are plenty of people who are all three. And you are right, how many of them would hop in an assault suit and risk their necks? The answer is probably none. But giving Tony a little something more might just hold him to the Iron Man suit itself (and I am fully aware that a brain body and a colossal uber healing factor is not a little something more). Anyways... yeah, Tony shouldn't have what Orson Scott Card gave him, but he should be given something that holds him in place as Iron Man though, and it doesn't nessisarily have to be a super power.

That I can agree with and see the point of, but the brain body thing and healing factor stuff makes my stomach hurt. Its that bad, really.

 

[E]

He's saying that he does like the fact that Tony is in fact Iron Man (the guy in the suit) but anybody else can be Iron Man. Never once did he say anyone can be Tony.

That was my argument though - I don't have a problem with how "Iron Man" is being portrayed, per se. Never said I did.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Hey, ya know, better is better, I was actually mocking the latest idea of UFF (the whole zombie verse thing, too much for the UU).

Do I reallly have to say anything?

Just in case I'm not clear on this.

Hawkeye,

you think implants for Hawkeye and Resurrection for Elektra is ok but you're not cool with Zombie's in another dimension?