New X-Men by Grant Morrison - discussion [spoilers]
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thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
Most of that was right on the ball. I forgot that Wolverine already had found out his entire life in New X-men. But I disgree with the he just remembered his past. "Just because". The reason behind it made perfect sense.
thee great one said:
We don't know what he found out, and he said himself that he realizes that it could all just be more lies.
Now what sounds better - a mini with Wolverine trying to determine what is and isn't a lie when he finds out all (or mostly) about his life, or a mini with Wolverine knowing everything and doing nothing.
Seriously, it's a dumb idea. He knows it all; there's no story to tell on that.
thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
UltimateE said:
I agree that they just ****ted all over Morrison. But I was just saying it makes sense why he does. But then it's different if you read about your life than to have the memories. If you read Wolverine right now. He's not sure what is what. He has so many memories that they are all jumbled in there and he's not sure what is what.
Iceshadow
Well-Known Member
Something that pisses me off is Joss Whedon seems to be making Emma Frost a villan again (though she hasn't been for what? Ten years?) and Morrison did all that work to get her and Scott together and get Jean out of the way. I like the Emma/Scott pairing dammit, Whedon better not screw with that!
Also, does anyone know if Morrison is coming back to Marvel? If he ever did I would like to see what he could do with The New Avengers.
Also, does anyone know if Morrison is coming back to Marvel? If he ever did I would like to see what he could do with The New Avengers.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Iceshadow said:
Whedon says Morrison's New X-Men run is one of his all-time favourite New X-Men runs and if you read Astonishing X-Men, it reads like a sequel. Jean's death plays a part in the story, the characters pick off right where the ended, and the Genoshan super sentinel reappears. I doubt he'll **** with anything. He may change it, progress on it, but he won't screw with it.
Thee Great One said:
What was the reason? Why does Wolverine now remember his past?
I'm pretty sure his reason for remembering is "a side-effect of Wanda" which was never set up, and is a random plot development thrown in at the end of #8... "just because".
Seriously, all these years Wolverine's been looking for his past, and instead of discovering it HIMSELF (as Morrison had him do in New X-Men) it's just given to him at RANDOM by ACCIDENT for NO REASON.
Whatever. It's bollocks.
Fuzzy Birds
Well-Known Member
I really don't understand all the fuss about Morrisson. I read about ten following issues from his run on New X Men and was distinctly underwhelmed. I find (more so with his other works) that everything just feels forced. Jumbled narratives, no real grasp on characters, ideas and plot twists that just seem completely out of left field, and not in a good way.
But that's just me, and I'm the minority, so I'm obviously wrong.
But that's just me, and I'm the minority, so I'm obviously wrong.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Yup.Fuzzy Birds said:
Bass
Nexus of the World
Fuzzy Birds said:
No, he really can be like that, I agree.
I also think that his narrative is so confusing it is paramount he has a very clear illustrator with him. Frank Quitely is very clear. In New X-Men however, the illustrator keeps changing, and the story is hard enough to really 'get' without continually changing illustrators every third issue.
Fuzzy Birds
Well-Known Member
icemastertron said:Yup.
It seems to be a strong point of mine.
Bass said:
Yup. See, I feel he has potential. His We3 was wonderful, heart wrenching, touching. If it wasn't for Quietleys scrunchy art, it would have been perfect. But for me, his X Men run didn't do much.
moonmaster
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I was really pissed when I first saw the Hellfire Club at the end of Asonishing X-Men #12, I was pissed. Morrison did an amazing thing with Emma: he made you hate her and think of her as this homewrecker who was ruining Scott and Jean's perfect, beautiful marriage that was alway meant to be. Then he shifted it completely. At the end of the Weapon X arc and the beginning of "Murder Mansion" he created two great moments that gave you an entirely new perspective on Emma. First, the Cuckoos leave her and tell her that its her fault that their sister died and she actually starts crying and tries to tell them that she cares about them and that teaching is her life. Then, after Jean tears through her mind, she goes to Logan for comfort and we finally get her true outlook on her and Scott's affair. At first, she was just having fun. She saw that they were falling to peices and she though it would be interesting to flirt with Scott. But in an unexpected turn of events, she fell in love with him. And she knew that it was wrong to break up their marriage but despite the way she acted, she really loved Scott and it was killing her. When I read those moments I finally started to love Emma and realized how great she is. Now, like I said, I was pissed at the reveal in Astonishing X-Men but I've gotten over it and decided that Whedon has respected what Morrison did far more than any other writer in the past few years (*!cough!*Bendis*!cough!*) and I now have faith that he won't go and ruin Emma.Bass said:
True. I had to read those last few pages of "Here Comes Tomorrow" a few times before I actually understood what happened. It was quite confusing. But I think those last two pages where Scott and Emma kiss was one of the best, most utterly appropriate ending I've seen in a run on a comic. It wrapped the story up perfectly while still leaving the ending open to continueing stories.Bass said:
He's pretty ensconced at DC, right now. In fact, I think he's one of the major plotters of all the One Year Later stuff. In a Wizard interview he apparently said that he had an idea for the Ultimate Universe and how it all fits together, but the writer of the article called it "too brilliant to print".
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Bass is right - the worst thinga bout the run was the constant change in artists. And Kordey and Bachalo aren't very good, and certainly nowhere near as meticulous as Quitely. Very jarring.
One confusing moment that I still don't think I fully understand is the whole scene with Stuff and when they "reprogram" him. And yeah, I think that's on Morrison. There are others but that one sticks out in my mind.
Moonie - I always thought that Here Comes Tomorrow was *supposed* to be confusing for the first 3 issues. Then #154 comes out and within the first 3 pages, EVERYTHING makes sense for the past 40 or so issues.
One confusing moment that I still don't think I fully understand is the whole scene with Stuff and when they "reprogram" him. And yeah, I think that's on Morrison. There are others but that one sticks out in my mind.
Moonie - I always thought that Here Comes Tomorrow was *supposed* to be confusing for the first 3 issues. Then #154 comes out and within the first 3 pages, EVERYTHING makes sense for the past 40 or so issues.
ProjectX2
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Didn't Morrison write some of this while doped up on Chaos Magicks?
Bass
Nexus of the World
moonmaster said:
Mate, did you read his 3-issue story on JLA Classified (#1-3)? It was balls. Didn't make any sense at all. He forgot to give the story a beginning.
Or a middle.
moonmaster said:
Interesting...
ProjectX2
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Bass said:
Agreed. I wanted to read JLA Classified because McGuiness was doing the art, but the story sucked hard. I thought I was on drugs.
thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
Bass said:
That and Phoenix Endsong. Which was brillant.
Whne Wanda created the world. She gave everyone what they always desired. Spider-Man has Gwen, a kid, is a famous wrestler and sciencist. Ms.Marvel is the most popular superhero. Wolverine is the head of S.H.I.E.L.D. but outside of that. What is the one thing Wolverine wants above all else. To remember his past. So he does. And that why he remebers the world before HOM.
Bass
Nexus of the World
But Spidey doesn't keep Gwen post-HOM. No one keeps their desires post-HOM apart from Wolverine.
PLUS, if his desire was to have his memories back, the memories he would get would be memories pertaining to the HOM universe, not ours.
In fact, that would make him more trage if post-HOM he still remembers a full and complete life, more than he'd ever known, but it was completely fake.
PLUS, if his desire was to have his memories back, the memories he would get would be memories pertaining to the HOM universe, not ours.
In fact, that would make him more trage if post-HOM he still remembers a full and complete life, more than he'd ever known, but it was completely fake.
thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
Bass said:
Yes but also Spider-Man and others have all there memories from what happened in House Of M. I mean if his true desire was to get back all of his REAL memories back that wouldn't mean the created ones. Which I think he had too. But still all I'm saying is that it makes sense why he has them not that justifling why he does.
