Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (Part 2)

Pro Bot said:
How could they have been transported from just before death if we literally saw Green Goblin's body? Unless there's some cloning, that doesn't make much sense. We know Hell exists in the Marvel Multiverse (one for each universe, I think), so I don't see how there's any problem with that.

Wouldn't this interpretation retcon the Venom films in 2022-2024? I mean, I guess it's possible? Or the credit scene is just many years later, somehow?

But if it doesn't, then it becomes awfully random what year they're taken from.

Unless... what If Venom was taken from 2020 due to trying to show Eddie the symbiote hive-mind at the time?

2002
Green Goblin

2004
Doctor Octopus

2014
Electro

2020
Venom

2024
Tobey, Andrew, Sandman, Lizard

That would make sense to me.
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Doc Ock is still brainwashed by the chip, which means he was transported before death, before Tobey Spider-Man destroyed it. So he isn't from Hell.

The time periods for other universes are relative, I would say. For example, Loki is taken from 2012, yet the show takes place after Endgame. I would say multiverse shenanigans do not account for different time periods. Someone could just be plucked away anywhere on the timeline.
 
Slyonic said:
Doc Ock is still brainwashed by the chip, which means he was transported before death, before Tobey Spider-Man destroyed it. So he isn't from Hell.
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In that case, he literally can't be from the Raimiverse at all. Each character would have to come from a different timeline where they just disappeared.
 
No Way Home spoilers

My interpretation of the timeline/multiverse shenanigans is as follows:

- sacred timeline 2024 - june/july (picking up immediately from FFH) - mysterio reveals peter's identity to the public; his name is quickly cleared in the court of law thanks to matt murdock's assistance but he remains guilty in the court of public opinion, leaving his and his friends' lives and college careers in shambles
- sacred timeline 2024 - october (halloween decorations) - peter decides to ask dr strange for help in order to get his friends' lives back to normal; peter messes up the spell and causes strange to pull beings who know spider-man's identity from across the multiverse into the mcu, resulting in Tobey Spider-Man, Andrew Spider-Man, Dafoe Goblin, Molina Doc Ock, THC Sandman, Rhys Ifans Lizard, Jamie Foxx Electro and Tom Hardy Venom's appearances [NOTE: jamie foxx electro and tom hardy venom are unaware of peter's identity in their respective universes, so this in my eyes is a major plot hole, unless an explanation can be given]. [NOTE: Strange only picks up on the 5 villains at first while the 2 alternate spider-mans are also in the mcu; this to me is another big inconsistency in that countless other characters (raimi harry, mj, venom, webb gwen, captain stacy, rhino, etc.) could theoretically be present unbeknownst to anyone; however, later the driving force behind strange keeping the portals closed is to not let everyone from all universes who knows of spider-man's identity into the mcu, so strange not knowing of 7 multiversal figures initially is another small, confusing but easily ignorable for the sake of plot, error on the writers' part]
- sacred timeline - the next day (andrew spider-man says "yesterday something crazy happened and i ended up here" or something similar) - all three spider-mans come together to cure the villains, who each have their own motivations for fighting the spider-mans; dr strange is able to finish his spell and send everyone back to their branch timelines, with the villains cured and the spider-mans returning to their respective original timelines
- sacred timeline 2024 - december - peter becomes the friendly neighborhood spider-man, operating around christmas 2024; with the finale of hawkeye yet to be released i'd place this scene before the series just because Hawkeye is so directly during christmas week while theres a good 4-week period for spider-man to be swinging around Manhattan with the Grand Central Station Christmas Tree set up

- branch timeline 2002 (identical to the sam raimi timeline until this point) - Dafoe Goblin is taken from his timeline moments before his death at his own hands fighting Tobey spider-man; he will return to this timeline moments later cured of the goblin formula from his time in the mcu
- branch timeline 2004 (identical to the raimi timeline until this point) - Molina Doc Ock is taken from his timeline moments before his return to sanity while fighting Tobey spider-man; he will return to this timeline moments later with a repaired inhibitor chip from his time in the mcu
- branch timeline 200? (identical to the raimi timeline until this point) - THC Sandman is taken from this timeline at some point after the events of Spider-Man 3 and will return moments later cured of being sandman from his time in the mcu
- branch timeline 200? (the raimi timeline or yet another branch identical up to this point, seems to not matter too much) - Tobey spider-man is taken from this timeline and returns moments later after his time in the mcu
- branch timeline 2012 (identical to the marc webb timeline up to this point) - Rhys Ifans Lizard is taken from this timeline moments before he's cured of being the Lizard; he will return moments later cured from his time in the mcu (NOTE: this scenario seems no different at all from what happened in The Amazing Spider-Man, so theoretically this could be the exact same timeline and these events happened unbeknownst to the characters of that film, but this is could also be way overcomplicating things rather than leaving all of the new timelines as branches for simplicity's sake]
- branch timeline 2014 (identical to the webb timeline up to this point) - Jamie Foxx electro is taken from this timeline moments before he is overloaded with electricity; he will return to this timeline moments later cured of his electric powers from his time in the mcu
- branch timeline 201? (the webb timeline or one very similar) - Andrew spider-man is taken from this timeline and returns moments later after his time in the mcu
- SSU (Sony's Spider-Man Universe) timeline 2019 - Tom Hardy Venom is taken from this timeline and will return moments later after his time in the mcu, leaving behind a small piece of symbiote

Any help, explanation, suggestions or other notes will help streamline this, but in my head after seeing the movie once this seems like the most simple and obvious way to organize this within the current structure of the mcu as we know it after Endgame and Loki
 
So I was poking around on Reddit and I found a curious detail that highlights a potential placement for NWH

So apparently MIT decision letters don't get mailed out until mid-December, which places "No Way Home" around Christmas and those Halloween decorations are up really, really late. The person who pointed this out posted their own breakdown of how they think it works here:
 
Lucid_Dreamer said:
So I was poking around on Reddit and I found a curious detail that highlights a potential placement for NWH

So apparently MIT decision letters don't get mailed out until mid-December, which places "No Way Home" around Christmas and those Halloween decorations are up really, really late. The person who pointed this out posted their own breakdown of how they think it works here:
Click to expand...

Stuff like that doesn't always line up with real life. The latest the NWH climax can be is Early December
given in the epilogue, Jameson mentioned it's been a few weeks since. I personally am for now going with the climax being at some point in November, with the epilogue being around early/mid-December, which still fits with the Christmas stuff at the end of the episode. It also allows the whole movie to be before Hawkeye.
 
selfishmisery said:
If that's the case, screw rules and logic and we can just make up any excuse for why such-and-such happens.

But the MCU wasn't founded on that. So absolutely not. They NEED to explain this sh-t better.
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Pro Bot said:
In that case, he literally can't be from the Raimiverse at all. Each character would have to come from a different timeline where they just disappeared.
Click to expand...
Pro Bot said:
How could they have been transported from just before death if we literally saw Green Goblin's body? Unless there's some cloning, that doesn't make much sense. We know Hell exists in the Marvel Multiverse (one for each universe, I think), so I don't see how there's any problem with that.

Wouldn't this interpretation retcon the Venom films in 2022-2024? I mean, I guess it's possible? Or the credit scene is just many years later, somehow?

But if it doesn't, then it becomes awfully random what year they're taken from.

Unless... what If Venom was taken from 2020 due to trying to show Eddie the symbiote hive-mind at the time?

2002
Green Goblin

2004
Doctor Octopus

2014
Electro

2020
Venom

2024
Tobey, Andrew, Sandman, Lizard

That would make sense to me.
Click to expand...

Five different years. How many times did Strange/ Peter say the spell was tampered with? One "pull" per tamper. The actor Alfred Molina and the character Doc Ock literally said they were taken from a moment from BEFORE they died. Why would they say that if they actually died? Also, why would they go to Hell? They were all good intentioned, until something messed them up. Also, screw the comics, the movies and comics are not the same. OK, after rewatching parts of SM2 on YouTube, Ock didn't have his sunglasses during that final fight. So I think "before their death" is not meant to be taken literally, just sometime while they were fighting a Peter.

Tamper 1:
In 2007, Sandman, AKA Flint Marko fades into dust and disappears. His fate is left unknown. In reality, he went back to his daughter, mostly staying in his pure sand form, watching from a distance. He watches over her for the as long as she lives. Fast forward to present day. Original Peter and Amazing Peter are "Spider-Manning" in their own universes. Meanwhile, in Mexico, Venom was about to tell Eddie Brock about how one of his "relatives" in another universe was attached to (Original) Peter Parker and then to another version of Eddie (Topher Grace) a number of years ago. He kinda missed the spider-like abilities. The symbiotic relationship makes it possible for him to relieve memories of other Venoms. Before he gets a chance to do this, bam!, him/Eddie, Original Peter, Amazing Peter and Sandman get pulled from present day into "our" present day. This is even partially supported by diologue mentioned by Original Peter that he's been looking for Peter for a little bit. None of these characters have a grudge for any version of Peter, hence why we don't see them for a while.

Tamper 2:
In 2002, Green Goblin is fighting his version of Spider-Man, until he gets pulled into our universe.

Tamper 3:
2004. Same as the above with Doctor Octopus.

Tamper 4:
2012. Same thing with Lizard (he can't be from present day, as he's still, y'know, Lizard.

Tamper 5:
By this point, the spell has been messed up so many times that the requirement of knowing that Peter Parker is Spider-Man is no longer a requirement for someone to be pulled out of their universe, just fighting Spidey is enough. Electro is pulled from his universe in 2014.

This would work perfectly, in my opinion. With the Spider Men being pulled FIRST from the present day, before the bad guys, this would keep all of their memories and timelines intact. At the end, everyone just goes back to the present day of their own universe. Any previous versions of these characters who may still be there, as well memories of anyone who knew them, are erased and re-written by these "new" versions. Who cares about these universes anyway anymore? They no longer matter. Except the current Venom's of course.
 
Last time I'll get into this, then I'm dropping it.

Maybe if they were transported to the MCU the very moment they learn Peter Parker is Spider-Man...I guess that works.

Almost works. That creates 5 branches in the timelines. So regardless, hopefully they explain this better at a later point. Hell or magic BS, whatever.
 
selfishmisery said:
Last time I'll get into this, then I'm dropping it.

Maybe if they were transported to the MCU the very moment they learn Peter Parker is Spider-Man...I guess that works.

Almost works. That creates 5 branches in the timelines. So regardless, hopefully they explain this better at a later point. Hell or magic BS, whatever.
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I mean the spell was botched five or six times. Makes sense to me that things can happen weirdly. And as you said, magic! (is an unknown variable.) Certainly none of us can judge how magic works. In in opinion, my explanation works and I need no further elaboration.
I'd much rather have explained exactly how Steve Rogers returned he Infinity Stones! My guess is he saw the Ancient One first and had her use the time stone to restore all of the other stones back into their containers before he delivered them.

Pro Bot said:
I do.
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I mean we got at least 3 good movies from the pre-MCU Spidey. But my gut says we are done with those old universes. From now on, the Spider-Verse can stay in cartoons, imo. Also, I doubt these universes matter to the TVA or anyone. To me they kind of aren't real, since they were pre-MCU.
 
marioxb said:
I mean we got at least 3 good movies from the pre-MCU Spidey. But my gut says we are done with those old universes. From now on, the Spider-Verse can stay in cartoons, imo.
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Subjective, isn't it? I like all 5 films... at varying degrees of course, but I do like them.

I wouldnt count them out just yet. We'll see though.
 
marioxb said:
I'd much rather have explained exactly how Steve Rogers returned he Infinity Stones! My guess is he saw the Ancient One first and had her use the time stone to restore all of the other stones back into their containers before he delivered them.
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The directors answered that.
collider.com

Did Cap Go to a Different Timeline in ‘Avengers: Endgame’? Russo Brothers Finally Answer

Avengers: Endgame directors Joe and Anthony Russo finally answer one of the film's hotly debated questions about Old Cap and a new timeline.
collider.com collider.com
Cap returned them and went to 1948 keeping a low enough profile to where he didn't create a branch.

A dance with Peggy ain't gonna change much, she'd just have to keep his secret.

Or did you literally mean HOW did he return the stones to their rightful place? Now that really doesn't matter.
 
selfishmisery said:
The directors answered that.
collider.com

Did Cap Go to a Different Timeline in ‘Avengers: Endgame’? Russo Brothers Finally Answer

Avengers: Endgame directors Joe and Anthony Russo finally answer one of the film's hotly debated questions about Old Cap and a new timeline.
collider.com collider.com
Cap returned them and went to 1948 keeping a low enough profile to where he didn't create a branch.

A dance with Peggy ain't gonna change much, she'd just have to keep his secret.

Or did you literally mean HOW did he return the stones to their rightful place? Now that really doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
I did mean literally. I know it doesn't matter, but to me is a bigger mystery than anything from No Way Home, and would be cool to see.
 
You all are making the multiverse pulls more complicated then they are. Norman doesn't mention his death at all, which means he isn't pulled after his death but before. Ock knows Norman died, but doesn't know about his own death, which means he was pulled before his death too. Sandman knows they both died, but isn't aware of his fate. Maybe he died, maybe he was simply defeated. That goes for Lizard, not knowing his death but Dillion knowing about his transformation. It was very obvious they were pulled from specific points in their respective timelines and not all from the exact same moment. As for other characters not coming through...does this really matter? Come on, so Dunst and Stone didn't come through, who cares? Rhino and Topher didn't either. I feel like as much as Strange kept saying its their fate when they go back, honestly, the spell got out of control, and some people (Venom) came through before Strange contained it.
 
fuzzyfoot said:
You all are making the multiverse pulls more complicated then they are. Norman doesn't mention his death at all, which means he isn't pulled after his death but before. Ock knows Norman died, but doesn't know about his own death, which means he was pulled before his death too. Sandman knows they both died, but isn't aware of his fate. Maybe he died, maybe he was simply defeated. That goes for Lizard, not knowing his death but Dillion knowing about his transformation. It was very obvious they were pulled from specific points in their respective timelines and not all from the exact same moment. As for other characters not coming through...does this really matter? Come on, so Dunst and Stone didn't come through, who cares? Rhino and Topher didn't either. I feel like as much as Strange kept saying its their fate when they go back, honestly, the spell got out of control, and some people (Venom) came through before Strange contained it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think it really is that simple.
The only obvious thing is that the Peters had to have come from the present day first because otherwise their memories wouldn't be in tact.
 
If I had one nitpick on the film it would be
regarding how they dealt with Lizard. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the cure blue in TASM? Why was it green in NWH?
 
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