Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (Part 2)
- Thread starter Lebnyx
- Start date
Okay so, I'm pretty sure the episode in question is five not three. In fact in episode three when Matt reunites with Foggy at the bar to warn him about Fisk, he tells him that he has had a "rough couple of months." And in this episode Foggy is still very much reeling over Matt's death, like, dreams and all, now obviously it is up to interpretation, but to me it seems VERY fresh.
All of the evidence here is based on real world events, which I think we can both admit is a slippery slope. I can not for the life of me think of one line of dialog that indicates we are a year out from Defenders. Lanthom says they buried Elektra "months ago" not almost two years ago. Matt tells Foggy he has a rough "couple of months." How long was Karen able to pay Matt's rent without a. running behind and b. Foggy having no idea. Why does Fisk thank Felix for protecting Vanessa for "Two years" if it has been three almost four? What did Matt do for a year in that church? I feel like we are disregarding very clear indication of where this takes place based solely on unfounded evidence that their fictional election works the same way ours do.
I mean for all we know Reyes could have been sworn in on January 1st, 2013. Tower took over in December of 2015 when she died, carried out her term up until the election in September or November (whichever election you choose since neither are mentioned) of 2016 and the winner of that election would be sworn in on January 1st of 2017. We don't know how the in universe DA elections work, we have not been told.
I need to rewatch the Foggy/Luke Cage episode again. But I could see him maintaining his job at Hogarth while still trying to get the new firm off the ground. And who knows, maybe Matt went searching for Elektra or something before committing to the idea or Nelson, Murdock and Page. We have no idea. There's just a lot of assuming at this point.
All of the evidence here is based on real world events, which I think we can both admit is a slippery slope. I can not for the life of me think of one line of dialog that indicates we are a year out from Defenders. Lanthom says they buried Elektra "months ago" not almost two years ago. Matt tells Foggy he has a rough "couple of months." How long was Karen able to pay Matt's rent without a. running behind and b. Foggy having no idea. Why does Fisk thank Felix for protecting Vanessa for "Two years" if it has been three almost four? What did Matt do for a year in that church? I feel like we are disregarding very clear indication of where this takes place based solely on unfounded evidence that their fictional election works the same way ours do.
I mean for all we know Reyes could have been sworn in on January 1st, 2013. Tower took over in December of 2015 when she died, carried out her term up until the election in September or November (whichever election you choose since neither are mentioned) of 2016 and the winner of that election would be sworn in on January 1st of 2017. We don't know how the in universe DA elections work, we have not been told.
I need to rewatch the Foggy/Luke Cage episode again. But I could see him maintaining his job at Hogarth while still trying to get the new firm off the ground. And who knows, maybe Matt went searching for Elektra or something before committing to the idea or Nelson, Murdock and Page. We have no idea. There's just a lot of assuming at this point.
(Insert after first sentence in first section.) Whereas the write in ballot does indicate that they are close to the election, there for hurting if not destroying my year of campaigning theory, there is nothing against the idea that this election could be being held in 2016.
Pro Bot
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50%.
Ok now we're getting somewhere. I'm operating based off of this timeline's placement of Defenders in mid-November 2016. Season 3 picks up "months" later as per a title card so I'm just arguing Spring 2017 vs. Fall 2017 because of all the snow.
As for all the references to "months" and everything feeling fresh and recent... ALL the Netflix shows operate like this. Jessica Jones season 2 is over two years after season 1 and roughly six months after Defenders, but everything is treated as super recent. Iron Fist season 2 is like a year and a half after season 1, but not much has changed and Davos still hasn't made a move. Luke Cage 2 is damn near a year after Defenders but they all act like it wasn't that long ago and Misty hasn't received her prosthetic arm for some reason.
I don't know why they operate like that, but they do.
As for all the references to "months" and everything feeling fresh and recent... ALL the Netflix shows operate like this. Jessica Jones season 2 is over two years after season 1 and roughly six months after Defenders, but everything is treated as super recent. Iron Fist season 2 is like a year and a half after season 1, but not much has changed and Davos still hasn't made a move. Luke Cage 2 is damn near a year after Defenders but they all act like it wasn't that long ago and Misty hasn't received her prosthetic arm for some reason.
I don't know why they operate like that, but they do.
Pro Bot
Well-Known Member
Good point.
Pro Bot
Well-Known Member
68% in your favour.
Okay, I'm starting to understand where the disagreement lies. It seems I disagree with more than just DD3 but with much of the Netflix placing past Iron fist. I am about to unload a lot, so just be patient with me hahaha.
Luke Cage/ Daredevil 2- I think we all agree that this happens at the end of 2015 (No matter how confusing DD jump from July to December is), but both show end at the tail end of 2015
Iron Fist- This is where the timeline loses me completely, I think placing this show in June is baffling to me (I'm not being a jerk, it's the only word that expresses me feelings about it haha) because having watched it recently, I'm not sure how we came to this conclusion. Having watched Iron Fist very recently, like, weeks ago, nothing jumped out at me as being in June except one thing and that was Al's phone. Now, Al's phone, to me, is the definition of unreliable evidence. Allow me to set the scene, it's night time, dark out, when Al approaches Danny with a phone. Danny asks him to look up article for him. Now, the first time we see the phone, the time is 10:22 AM...then when Big Al looks the article up (No joke, the article is in his photos folder [Scott Buck...]) the date and time are 9:33 AM on June 8. That is the only evidence I found placing Iron Fist in June.
Also, by placing it there we are ignoring the very obvious Chinese New Year happening in China Town. Now, I am not entirely versed in Chinese culture, and I do not pretend to be completely knowledgable, however after some research there is only one widely celebrated Chinese holiday in June and it is the Chinese Dragon Boat festival, and as you can tell by the name, they are not celebrating a Chinese Dragon Boat Festival. (I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the seeming hypocrisy in acknowledging real world events. I feel as though it is easier to tweak something for creative purposes if that thing is not widely regarded as common information. The election we discussed earlier, the only reason [real world] that the current elections for DA in Manhattan are held on the years they are is because in 1985 they changed the term length from 3 years to 4 years, had that happened a year later, we'd be looking at elections on even years instead of odd years as has been the case recently. These are facts that not many people are aware of or even notice and changing it would only lead to issues and discussion on say...a timeline website. However changing the timing of a holiday is less likely seeing as it's pretty much commonplace where these holidays take place. You can't put Christmas in October because these holidays are so engraved into our minds that we would feel something to be off. To summarize, only Sith deal in absolutes.)
I've also seen a few references to the clothes and the weather and such which is interesting but not always super reliable. Like in one scene there are trees kind of in bloom and then in another scene there is nothing but dead leafless trees so, eh. Then people clothing changes so sporadically that I have no clue what to think of it. Like it the first episode Danny meets Colleen and everyone is wearing coats, scarfs, jackets, etc, but then we go into the celebration later that night and people are wearing short sleeves, but some of them still have jackets, but some of them don't so...again...eh? It just feels a little risky to trust any of that information given, you know, how much Scott Buck cares...(See: INTERNET ARTICLE IN PHOTOS FOLDER AT A PITCH BLACK NINE OR TEN AM)
So, where I would wind up putting Iron Fist based off it's obvious inclusion of the Chinese New Years Eve celebration is either in Mid January or Mid February (I personally think Mid January is cleaner and keeps everything sort of nicely packed together)
Iron Fist- January 2016- February 2016
(This is a lot of text and I'm sure you are sick of reading it by now. I get that. My fingers hurt typing it, but I'm going to press on because as weird as it is, I am actually having a really good time here. But feel free to grab a snack and take a short break because there is still a bit to go.)
The Defenders- So, I've actually spent little bit scrounging through the series looking for hints about the series placement and I'm kind of there. So, at the end of Iron Fist Danny is already planning on heading to Kun Lun, and Colleen agrees to go. We aren't given any real passage of time, but given the fact that Colleen doesn't have any more students to tend to (as she states at the end) and Danny has an incredible amount of resources. They could leave for that trip the next day if they wanted to. So, going off that assumption that not much time has passed there. The continue their search after Kun Lun for, as Danny says "Months." Now, in the Defenders the costuming is a bit more consistent. There's a lot of winter-esque wear. The environment is a little less reliable such as trees and such like that. As some times they are leafless and sometimes they aren't (Which is usually just a side effect of filming schedules and such, which is why I find it to be a bit unreliable.)
Now, also in the first episode of Defenders Misty talks about all the kids who have wound up dead in Harlem, something Luke wasn't aware of, so it must have picked up steam once he was locked up. When he asks how many she tells him "several in the past few months" which lines up with where I'm thinking to put this. Danny also makes some comments about Rand and the Hand (Ha.) doing business together "last year" but that feels like non factor info that Danny could have come across later. Other than that, not much is indicated through the show. Matt gave up Daredevil which given any of the stuff we know about him as a character I don't believe he could go that long without slipping the costume back on. Jessica hasn't been working, and people are trying to get the story of Kilgrave out of her, which, eh, it seems a bit late, but then again it's an unsolved story about a mind controller in New York, I could see papers still trying to get the scoop. Luke's in jail...so...that's an easy sell. And Danny has been tracking the Hand across the globe with his limitless resources for "months."
Overall without any specific dialog to question it. I'd wind up putting the Defenders around Late March/Early April. The weather would line up, the clothing would line up and it would explain all that freaking rain. Seriously. It is raining ALL THE TIME in Defenders.
Also, Jessica Henwick stated that The Defenders happens "a month" after the end of Iron Fist, so the less time between those two shows the better.
The Defenders- March 2016/Very Early April 2016
(Here is your second chance for an intermission, I know I'm taking one.)
Daredevil 3- The most recent one on the list, we have already explained this one a bit already, so based off of what I have said you probably know I'm going to place it in 2016, but here's a recap as to why.
Lines: Matt to Foggy: "I've had a rough couple of months" Fisk to Felix: "You protected her two years. You kept Vanessa safe when I couldn't." Lanthom to Matt: "Elektra passed, months ago, we had a funeral for her." Cab driver: "It's starting to get cold"
Matt: Matt didn't spend a year in a church recovering as the current timeline insinuates. I just can't be convinced of that. Karen: Admittedly Matt's apartment is cheap, but not cheap enough that Karen can maintain both for a year's time.
Foggy: Foggy is still in a fresh stage of mourning, I know it was brought up that all of the Netflix shows work like this, but those examples weren't completely compelling. Jessica Jones barely acknowledges the events of The Defenders, I think it's twice that it is even referenced and it's always reactionary on her part. I was under the impression that Davos was in fact looking for a bunch of the world's rarest materials in order to accomplish a ritual which is even more rare, so that being said, a year is quite impressive on his part. And then Luke Cage I wouldn't say treats everything as recent, the only reference to Matt is done by Claire to make a point to Luke, and yes, as it does suck that it took a while to get the arm to Misty, there are many factors at play here. Was Misty open to the idea, was the tech at a stage that was ready for testing, had any one thought to go to Rand find a prosthetic mechanical arm and give it to her? We don't know.
The bigger argument seems to be the election, and I get it, based on real world events the election for this took place on an odd year, and where this timeline places everything, I get it, and it makes sense. But with this proposal it shifts everything a bit, making it okay for that election to be happening in November, just like you want it to, but in 2016 instead.
So, I would wind up placing Daredevil 3 as some happening after Defenders, and the bulk happening late October 2016, which is still a bit long for him to chillin, but he had a building fall on him. I just feel like a year is asking too much, where as this six month approach just seems to fit a bit better with where everyone is at and it allows Karen to show up for something else.
Daredevil 3- Late October 2016
The Punisher: Now, this one is a bit loose, as I haven't seen The Punisher but once and it was the first time I saw it, however, I do remember it taking place very much around Thanksgiving, which is obviously around late October to November. I think if I were to sit down and really look at it, I think there is a way to determine and discover a bit of an overlap between Punisher and Daredevil 3. My pitch for this would be that all of Karen's stuff in the Punisher happens just a bit before Matt reveals himself to Foggy. Maintaining Karen still coping with his death while also keeping DD3 and Punisher in the obviously insinuated 2016. I know it feels like a weak argument, but I feel like if I sat down with it, and really researched the point, I could find something. Plus, if I remember he takes down all the cartels and then there is a six month leap. Unfortunately we don't know how long it took to round up everyone and take them out, but I'm willing to say a couple of months on that front. Just because if we went six months between December/January to Juneish. That is clearly not right, so clearly some time needs to pass in that opening montage.
The Punisher- mostly October/November 2016
The rest of the shows sort of fall into obvious places, with Jessica Jones being the outlier as she doesn't do much interacting in her story. I remember a date on a laptop putting it *I think* in early May, but I vividly remember the year being 2017 because I posted it on the last forum, so it could kick off around Aprilish of that year. I also don't think Foggy being in this would matter as I've touched on before, it's going to take a bit to build a firm that is making profit, if they even decided to pursue it at all.
Jessica Jones 2, Luke Cage 2 and Iron Fist 2's placements I think are pretty dead on and I have no disagreement with those. Thanks for reading, I know it's a lot of information to take in, and I know it's a lot of change being pitched, but I just wanted to articulate actual reasoning for what I'm saying instead of just throwing out a point without explanation. I truly do have a good time discussing things like this, and I hope everybody here feels the same.
Luke Cage/ Daredevil 2- I think we all agree that this happens at the end of 2015 (No matter how confusing DD jump from July to December is), but both show end at the tail end of 2015
Iron Fist- This is where the timeline loses me completely, I think placing this show in June is baffling to me (I'm not being a jerk, it's the only word that expresses me feelings about it haha) because having watched it recently, I'm not sure how we came to this conclusion. Having watched Iron Fist very recently, like, weeks ago, nothing jumped out at me as being in June except one thing and that was Al's phone. Now, Al's phone, to me, is the definition of unreliable evidence. Allow me to set the scene, it's night time, dark out, when Al approaches Danny with a phone. Danny asks him to look up article for him. Now, the first time we see the phone, the time is 10:22 AM...then when Big Al looks the article up (No joke, the article is in his photos folder [Scott Buck...]) the date and time are 9:33 AM on June 8. That is the only evidence I found placing Iron Fist in June.
Also, by placing it there we are ignoring the very obvious Chinese New Year happening in China Town. Now, I am not entirely versed in Chinese culture, and I do not pretend to be completely knowledgable, however after some research there is only one widely celebrated Chinese holiday in June and it is the Chinese Dragon Boat festival, and as you can tell by the name, they are not celebrating a Chinese Dragon Boat Festival. (I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the seeming hypocrisy in acknowledging real world events. I feel as though it is easier to tweak something for creative purposes if that thing is not widely regarded as common information. The election we discussed earlier, the only reason [real world] that the current elections for DA in Manhattan are held on the years they are is because in 1985 they changed the term length from 3 years to 4 years, had that happened a year later, we'd be looking at elections on even years instead of odd years as has been the case recently. These are facts that not many people are aware of or even notice and changing it would only lead to issues and discussion on say...a timeline website. However changing the timing of a holiday is less likely seeing as it's pretty much commonplace where these holidays take place. You can't put Christmas in October because these holidays are so engraved into our minds that we would feel something to be off. To summarize, only Sith deal in absolutes.)
I've also seen a few references to the clothes and the weather and such which is interesting but not always super reliable. Like in one scene there are trees kind of in bloom and then in another scene there is nothing but dead leafless trees so, eh. Then people clothing changes so sporadically that I have no clue what to think of it. Like it the first episode Danny meets Colleen and everyone is wearing coats, scarfs, jackets, etc, but then we go into the celebration later that night and people are wearing short sleeves, but some of them still have jackets, but some of them don't so...again...eh? It just feels a little risky to trust any of that information given, you know, how much Scott Buck cares...(See: INTERNET ARTICLE IN PHOTOS FOLDER AT A PITCH BLACK NINE OR TEN AM)
So, where I would wind up putting Iron Fist based off it's obvious inclusion of the Chinese New Years Eve celebration is either in Mid January or Mid February (I personally think Mid January is cleaner and keeps everything sort of nicely packed together)
Iron Fist- January 2016- February 2016
(This is a lot of text and I'm sure you are sick of reading it by now. I get that. My fingers hurt typing it, but I'm going to press on because as weird as it is, I am actually having a really good time here. But feel free to grab a snack and take a short break because there is still a bit to go.)
The Defenders- So, I've actually spent little bit scrounging through the series looking for hints about the series placement and I'm kind of there. So, at the end of Iron Fist Danny is already planning on heading to Kun Lun, and Colleen agrees to go. We aren't given any real passage of time, but given the fact that Colleen doesn't have any more students to tend to (as she states at the end) and Danny has an incredible amount of resources. They could leave for that trip the next day if they wanted to. So, going off that assumption that not much time has passed there. The continue their search after Kun Lun for, as Danny says "Months." Now, in the Defenders the costuming is a bit more consistent. There's a lot of winter-esque wear. The environment is a little less reliable such as trees and such like that. As some times they are leafless and sometimes they aren't (Which is usually just a side effect of filming schedules and such, which is why I find it to be a bit unreliable.)
Now, also in the first episode of Defenders Misty talks about all the kids who have wound up dead in Harlem, something Luke wasn't aware of, so it must have picked up steam once he was locked up. When he asks how many she tells him "several in the past few months" which lines up with where I'm thinking to put this. Danny also makes some comments about Rand and the Hand (Ha.) doing business together "last year" but that feels like non factor info that Danny could have come across later. Other than that, not much is indicated through the show. Matt gave up Daredevil which given any of the stuff we know about him as a character I don't believe he could go that long without slipping the costume back on. Jessica hasn't been working, and people are trying to get the story of Kilgrave out of her, which, eh, it seems a bit late, but then again it's an unsolved story about a mind controller in New York, I could see papers still trying to get the scoop. Luke's in jail...so...that's an easy sell. And Danny has been tracking the Hand across the globe with his limitless resources for "months."
Overall without any specific dialog to question it. I'd wind up putting the Defenders around Late March/Early April. The weather would line up, the clothing would line up and it would explain all that freaking rain. Seriously. It is raining ALL THE TIME in Defenders.
Also, Jessica Henwick stated that The Defenders happens "a month" after the end of Iron Fist, so the less time between those two shows the better.
The Defenders- March 2016/Very Early April 2016
(Here is your second chance for an intermission, I know I'm taking one.)
Daredevil 3- The most recent one on the list, we have already explained this one a bit already, so based off of what I have said you probably know I'm going to place it in 2016, but here's a recap as to why.
Lines: Matt to Foggy: "I've had a rough couple of months" Fisk to Felix: "You protected her two years. You kept Vanessa safe when I couldn't." Lanthom to Matt: "Elektra passed, months ago, we had a funeral for her." Cab driver: "It's starting to get cold"
Matt: Matt didn't spend a year in a church recovering as the current timeline insinuates. I just can't be convinced of that. Karen: Admittedly Matt's apartment is cheap, but not cheap enough that Karen can maintain both for a year's time.
Foggy: Foggy is still in a fresh stage of mourning, I know it was brought up that all of the Netflix shows work like this, but those examples weren't completely compelling. Jessica Jones barely acknowledges the events of The Defenders, I think it's twice that it is even referenced and it's always reactionary on her part. I was under the impression that Davos was in fact looking for a bunch of the world's rarest materials in order to accomplish a ritual which is even more rare, so that being said, a year is quite impressive on his part. And then Luke Cage I wouldn't say treats everything as recent, the only reference to Matt is done by Claire to make a point to Luke, and yes, as it does suck that it took a while to get the arm to Misty, there are many factors at play here. Was Misty open to the idea, was the tech at a stage that was ready for testing, had any one thought to go to Rand find a prosthetic mechanical arm and give it to her? We don't know.
The bigger argument seems to be the election, and I get it, based on real world events the election for this took place on an odd year, and where this timeline places everything, I get it, and it makes sense. But with this proposal it shifts everything a bit, making it okay for that election to be happening in November, just like you want it to, but in 2016 instead.
So, I would wind up placing Daredevil 3 as some happening after Defenders, and the bulk happening late October 2016, which is still a bit long for him to chillin, but he had a building fall on him. I just feel like a year is asking too much, where as this six month approach just seems to fit a bit better with where everyone is at and it allows Karen to show up for something else.
Daredevil 3- Late October 2016
The Punisher: Now, this one is a bit loose, as I haven't seen The Punisher but once and it was the first time I saw it, however, I do remember it taking place very much around Thanksgiving, which is obviously around late October to November. I think if I were to sit down and really look at it, I think there is a way to determine and discover a bit of an overlap between Punisher and Daredevil 3. My pitch for this would be that all of Karen's stuff in the Punisher happens just a bit before Matt reveals himself to Foggy. Maintaining Karen still coping with his death while also keeping DD3 and Punisher in the obviously insinuated 2016. I know it feels like a weak argument, but I feel like if I sat down with it, and really researched the point, I could find something. Plus, if I remember he takes down all the cartels and then there is a six month leap. Unfortunately we don't know how long it took to round up everyone and take them out, but I'm willing to say a couple of months on that front. Just because if we went six months between December/January to Juneish. That is clearly not right, so clearly some time needs to pass in that opening montage.
The Punisher- mostly October/November 2016
The rest of the shows sort of fall into obvious places, with Jessica Jones being the outlier as she doesn't do much interacting in her story. I remember a date on a laptop putting it *I think* in early May, but I vividly remember the year being 2017 because I posted it on the last forum, so it could kick off around Aprilish of that year. I also don't think Foggy being in this would matter as I've touched on before, it's going to take a bit to build a firm that is making profit, if they even decided to pursue it at all.
Jessica Jones 2, Luke Cage 2 and Iron Fist 2's placements I think are pretty dead on and I have no disagreement with those. Thanks for reading, I know it's a lot of information to take in, and I know it's a lot of change being pitched, but I just wanted to articulate actual reasoning for what I'm saying instead of just throwing out a point without explanation. I truly do have a good time discussing things like this, and I hope everybody here feels the same.
In episode 7, at 42 minutes, someone's phone says it is July 11.
Gotcha, the phone. It just happened so quickly I forgot hahah. I could acknowledge that if not for the other points made. Not to mention some realworld info that may be relevant. Iron Fist Season 1 began filming around April (https://onlocationvacations.com/2016/04/14/filming-underway-new-york-city-marvels-iron-fist/) and wrapped on October 8th (Per Finn Jones' snapchat) So, as much as I would like to take the phone as fact I can't convince myself to do that, seeing as it is obviously a result of the phones being dated to the shooting days (See: Cloak and Dagger not taking place in October per a phone date because of Mardi Gras [A direct parallel to my point] and Luke Cage season 1 not taking place in September despite Misty's phone [September 23]
I agree with this point, as well as disagreeing with the placements of a few of the movies/shows based on prop dates, but that was DIrishB's procedure, and I don't want to make any major changes to his timeline, unless a consensus is reached or official material proves otherwise.
Pro Bot
Well-Known Member
I would move daredevil season 3 back honestly.
Big post! I really only ever use my smart phone so my posts are generally only 3-4 paragraphs, tops. But I'm borrowing the wife's laptop for this one lol.
As said, there's also the Rand executives phone. When I first saw Iron Fist, I also assumed it was meant to be February and that was a Chinese New Year parade, but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that it has to be a New Year parade. It could be any old festival.
Buck sucks.
I can see lol. I love timeline stuff too, normal people just don't understand.
Ok, here's were I strongly disagree. Even accepting Iron Fist as February (seems like an awfully short gap), it just doesn't work with Luke Cage. He got arrested for breaking out of a federal pen, that's a very serious crime, even if he was a victim of a fight ring and weird experiments. In my mind he was sentenced to a year, and got out a month early for good behavior. I just don't see him doing 3 months, and it undercuts the severity of his arrest in the finale anyways. 3 months is nothing, and the way he and Claire acted when they were reunited in Defenders suggests it was much longer.
And it can be pretty damn rainy in Fall in NY, trust me.
Actors and actresses have proven to be extremely unreliable for timeline stuff.
I agree that it's clunky, especially Fisk's line about Vanessa. But I don't see what's so off about Matt's long recovery... in your timeline Defenders was April and DD3 picks up around early November, that's 7 months. Which is a pretty long time. My way makes it roughly 10 months. I don't see how padding in 3 more months is that bad.
With Jessica Jones I was referring more to how season 2 treats that whole Kilgrave thing as fairly recent, she still isn't really working 2 years later, etc.
This is where I feel your take just falls apart. Punis.her HAS to be in between Defenders and DD3, Karen is still acting like Matt's dead and she's still working at the Bulletin/on good terms with Ellison. Punisher is pretty firmly set in mid-November 2016, so I just don't see any way around it.
I certainly do! It's the best thing about serialized fiction. Looking forward to your response, dude
Took me a minute, but I'm back. I can't reply with quotes for some reason (?) but I'll just respond to what is said. Also, thanks for taking the time to read ALLLLLLLLLL of that text.
In regards to Iron Fist and the Chinese New Year- I'm going to disagree on it now being incredibly clear that that is what it is. Upon analyzation of the scene, multiple things stick out, those things are:
Dragon Dances, Lion Dances, Lucky Red decorative Lanterns, Fireworks, Sparklers, Bubble shooters, drum music, Traditional Chinese Opera masks and a mask that is more so like a big head. Now, upon research of Chinese holidays, a lot of these things are present in celebration, however only the Chinese New Year has all of these things simultaneously. The holiday that came closest to matching the traditions of the Chinese New Year was the Mid-Autumn Festival (The second most important holiday from what I have seen) but what stopped me from thinking it was the MAF was that on that particular holiday lanterns play a much larger role in the event, such as lighting a wide assortment of different colors and sizes and sending them into the sky, and that is never seen in this scene. Also, it feels as though the CNY is more of a celebration/party and the MAF is more of a festival (Like, it seems a bit more chill.) Mooncakes and other foods also play a large part in the MAF, and from what I can tell, no one is eating. Also, that scene roughly takes place around elevenish oÂ' clock, due to the fact that Danny is attacked, Ward is called and then Ward heads to HaroldÂ's. There Harold gives Kyle the rest of the night off only to have Kyle mention that it is almost midnight.
Again, I am no expert on Chinese culture, and if anyone has info that conflicts with this, please let me know, but from my research I firmly stand by that this is the Chinese Lunar New Year being celebrated. Which allows me to keep my placement in the late January area. I will also stand by ignoring the Rand executives phone for reasons listed above.
Regarding Scott Buck- Yes. Yes he does.
Regarding Luke Cage and his arrest- I'm not sure how to argue this because it seems like I'm arguing against a matter of opinion? But, I will do my best. So, if IF were to start in Late January, go through February and end about lateish February/early March (Depending on day passage), I would wind up putting Defenders in early April. This has him in prison for three months, like you said, however, that doesn't really feel that off to me.
First off, Foggy is representing him and the whole reason he was offered the job at Hogarth's firm was because he had experience in dealing with 'people with complexities' and they wanted that there. Not only that, I'm sure because Claire knows him from DD2, she got into contact with Foggy rather quickly. Also, in Luke's first scene the warden tells him that all his 'paper pushing worked' and Foggy tells Luke that he and Bobby Fish had been doing some 'impressive book crackingÂ' and seeing as we see Bobby find the file that proves LukeÂ's innocence and as you mentioned he only escaped from a wrongful imprisonment to avoid unlawful experimenting and torture, there isnÂ't really any reason to keep him there. So, I see it less as Luke fulfilled his sentence and got off early, and more as Luke Foggy and Bobby found a way to have the charges against him dropped.
As for the Claire stuff and it under cutting him going to jail.....well, that's a matter of opinion on the narrative. If you think Claire and Luke are super into each other, and writing each other as much as they say they do, then you can buy it, because as short as three months may seem, I believe it would feel much longer without the person you love being with you (cue romantic overture). As for it under cutting the original ending, maybe, but again opinion. I rewatched it recently and it still really bummed me out that after all the good Luke Cage did for Harlem and after becoming a hero, he STILL got carted off to jail. So, to me, it's still effective, but I can understand that point of view.
Involving actor's and actresses- I agree with you, however the more people that have similar answers, the more I am inclined to believe them. (https://www.bustle.com/p/when-does-...he-heroes-havent-had-much-time-to-relax-77073) Here not only does Henwick says that it has been a month since Iron Fist, but Charlie Cox says it has been a few months since Daredevil 2. Which according to where I stand, lines up pretty damn perfectly. Now yes, the occasional actor or actress gets it wrong, but when what multiple people says lines up, I'm more inclined to look at it with a little more credibility.
Involving Jessica Jones- I see. I get where you are coming from, but I have never snapped a guys neck in front of a bunch of people after weeks of being psychologically manipulated and tortured, so I'm not going to speak to what the mental recovery time of such a trauma should be.
Regarding Daredevil/Punisher- Now, this is the weakest point of my argument just because I haven't sat down and really taken as many notes as I should, I've just done 'watch as I need to' research. The current time frame of his recovery is a little under eleven months per the current timeline. My way if we put Matt's attempted suicide by mugger and put it at the beginning of October my way puts his recovery at a little under six months which almost halves the recovery time. As far as Punisher and DD3's overlapping goes, honestly until I can sit down with it, I don't know.
From here on out, this is just brainstorming, not a concrete argument or pitch: Begin speculation.
Here is what I know:
DD3 would end before early November, which seems easy because if memory serves, it's pretty day to day
The Punisher is also, VERY day to day, I did a quick count of day/night cycles and came to about 35 days that pass (may be more when dialogue is factored in, not to mention Midani's unspecified recovery time after Stein's death)
Karen isn't told Matt is alive until Episode 4 and doesn't actually come into contact with him until Episode 10
Karen has pretty sporadic appearances throughout The Punisher making her a pretty flexible character throughout
The Punisher ends on Thanksgiving
In DD3 Ellison tells Karen "That's a hell of an exclusive, welcome back" and she winds up saying something about "This is about more than just our paper." So, that exchange alone has me thinking that although it isn't seen, it's pretty clear she could be back at the Bulletin.
So, I'm thinking there's sort of a bob and weave thing here. DD3 starts, Karen talks to Frank and she helps him, Karen learns about Matt but doesn't find him, Midani interviews Karen, Karen re-teams with Matt, DD3 ends, Lewis calls out Karen and the Bulletin, all the Lewis stuff happens with Karen, end of Punisher. Again, I'm in very early stages of this thought process and it could easily not hold up as I'm sure I've forgotten some things, but not only do the days that pass in Punisher help this, but it would also have a give a nice little explanation as to why Punisher doesn't show up right after Fisk is released and kill him like he said he would in DD2.
End speculation.
Again, a lot has been typed, so I appreciate the time you've taken reading it. It's just really great having people to talk to about this sort of thing, this isn't a bring this up at work thing, so it's cool that this forum exists.
In regards to Iron Fist and the Chinese New Year- I'm going to disagree on it now being incredibly clear that that is what it is. Upon analyzation of the scene, multiple things stick out, those things are:
Dragon Dances, Lion Dances, Lucky Red decorative Lanterns, Fireworks, Sparklers, Bubble shooters, drum music, Traditional Chinese Opera masks and a mask that is more so like a big head. Now, upon research of Chinese holidays, a lot of these things are present in celebration, however only the Chinese New Year has all of these things simultaneously. The holiday that came closest to matching the traditions of the Chinese New Year was the Mid-Autumn Festival (The second most important holiday from what I have seen) but what stopped me from thinking it was the MAF was that on that particular holiday lanterns play a much larger role in the event, such as lighting a wide assortment of different colors and sizes and sending them into the sky, and that is never seen in this scene. Also, it feels as though the CNY is more of a celebration/party and the MAF is more of a festival (Like, it seems a bit more chill.) Mooncakes and other foods also play a large part in the MAF, and from what I can tell, no one is eating. Also, that scene roughly takes place around elevenish oÂ' clock, due to the fact that Danny is attacked, Ward is called and then Ward heads to HaroldÂ's. There Harold gives Kyle the rest of the night off only to have Kyle mention that it is almost midnight.
Again, I am no expert on Chinese culture, and if anyone has info that conflicts with this, please let me know, but from my research I firmly stand by that this is the Chinese Lunar New Year being celebrated. Which allows me to keep my placement in the late January area. I will also stand by ignoring the Rand executives phone for reasons listed above.
Regarding Scott Buck- Yes. Yes he does.
Regarding Luke Cage and his arrest- I'm not sure how to argue this because it seems like I'm arguing against a matter of opinion? But, I will do my best. So, if IF were to start in Late January, go through February and end about lateish February/early March (Depending on day passage), I would wind up putting Defenders in early April. This has him in prison for three months, like you said, however, that doesn't really feel that off to me.
First off, Foggy is representing him and the whole reason he was offered the job at Hogarth's firm was because he had experience in dealing with 'people with complexities' and they wanted that there. Not only that, I'm sure because Claire knows him from DD2, she got into contact with Foggy rather quickly. Also, in Luke's first scene the warden tells him that all his 'paper pushing worked' and Foggy tells Luke that he and Bobby Fish had been doing some 'impressive book crackingÂ' and seeing as we see Bobby find the file that proves LukeÂ's innocence and as you mentioned he only escaped from a wrongful imprisonment to avoid unlawful experimenting and torture, there isnÂ't really any reason to keep him there. So, I see it less as Luke fulfilled his sentence and got off early, and more as Luke Foggy and Bobby found a way to have the charges against him dropped.
As for the Claire stuff and it under cutting him going to jail.....well, that's a matter of opinion on the narrative. If you think Claire and Luke are super into each other, and writing each other as much as they say they do, then you can buy it, because as short as three months may seem, I believe it would feel much longer without the person you love being with you (cue romantic overture). As for it under cutting the original ending, maybe, but again opinion. I rewatched it recently and it still really bummed me out that after all the good Luke Cage did for Harlem and after becoming a hero, he STILL got carted off to jail. So, to me, it's still effective, but I can understand that point of view.
Involving actor's and actresses- I agree with you, however the more people that have similar answers, the more I am inclined to believe them. (https://www.bustle.com/p/when-does-...he-heroes-havent-had-much-time-to-relax-77073) Here not only does Henwick says that it has been a month since Iron Fist, but Charlie Cox says it has been a few months since Daredevil 2. Which according to where I stand, lines up pretty damn perfectly. Now yes, the occasional actor or actress gets it wrong, but when what multiple people says lines up, I'm more inclined to look at it with a little more credibility.
Involving Jessica Jones- I see. I get where you are coming from, but I have never snapped a guys neck in front of a bunch of people after weeks of being psychologically manipulated and tortured, so I'm not going to speak to what the mental recovery time of such a trauma should be.
Regarding Daredevil/Punisher- Now, this is the weakest point of my argument just because I haven't sat down and really taken as many notes as I should, I've just done 'watch as I need to' research. The current time frame of his recovery is a little under eleven months per the current timeline. My way if we put Matt's attempted suicide by mugger and put it at the beginning of October my way puts his recovery at a little under six months which almost halves the recovery time. As far as Punisher and DD3's overlapping goes, honestly until I can sit down with it, I don't know.
From here on out, this is just brainstorming, not a concrete argument or pitch: Begin speculation.
Here is what I know:
DD3 would end before early November, which seems easy because if memory serves, it's pretty day to day
The Punisher is also, VERY day to day, I did a quick count of day/night cycles and came to about 35 days that pass (may be more when dialogue is factored in, not to mention Midani's unspecified recovery time after Stein's death)
Karen isn't told Matt is alive until Episode 4 and doesn't actually come into contact with him until Episode 10
Karen has pretty sporadic appearances throughout The Punisher making her a pretty flexible character throughout
The Punisher ends on Thanksgiving
In DD3 Ellison tells Karen "That's a hell of an exclusive, welcome back" and she winds up saying something about "This is about more than just our paper." So, that exchange alone has me thinking that although it isn't seen, it's pretty clear she could be back at the Bulletin.
So, I'm thinking there's sort of a bob and weave thing here. DD3 starts, Karen talks to Frank and she helps him, Karen learns about Matt but doesn't find him, Midani interviews Karen, Karen re-teams with Matt, DD3 ends, Lewis calls out Karen and the Bulletin, all the Lewis stuff happens with Karen, end of Punisher. Again, I'm in very early stages of this thought process and it could easily not hold up as I'm sure I've forgotten some things, but not only do the days that pass in Punisher help this, but it would also have a give a nice little explanation as to why Punisher doesn't show up right after Fisk is released and kill him like he said he would in DD2.
End speculation.
Again, a lot has been typed, so I appreciate the time you've taken reading it. It's just really great having people to talk to about this sort of thing, this isn't a bring this up at work thing, so it's cool that this forum exists.
selfishmisery
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,356
DIrishB and his MCU timeline (plus the TheComicBoard site) gets a heartfelt shoutout in a Watchtower Database video. (About 7 and-a-half minutes into the video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r-Cnt6WlSI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r-Cnt6WlSI
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