Lost *spoilers*

[ProjectX2]

The finale will generate a lot of theories.

I don't mind there still being questions but I hope the conclusion is still satisfying. I want closure for the characters.

For me, the finale has to live up to The Office and Six Feet Under finales. They were the best I have ever seen.

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

The finale will generate a lot of theories.

I don't mind there still being questions but I hope the conclusion is still satisfying. I want closure for the characters.

For me, the finale has to live up to The Office and Six Feet Under finales. They were the best I have ever seen.

I don't know. So long as the major character arcs are resolved, I'd be okay with a "The Prisoner"-esque finale.

 

[Planet-man]

I'd be okay with one if it was artistically right, but in this case there's NO WAY it would be. It would be making something up so they don't have to explain things, cheating us out of answers to questions they only made up to taunt us after all, Chris Carter effect, etc.

There can be plenty of ambiguity, but there are a number of questions they HAVE to answer or be ridiculed about it always.

 

[Random]

As long as after I feel closure at the end I'm good with whatever they do. Even with crazy time travel and alternate realities they have yet to disappoint me. So I completely trust them, and more than that want them, to do the ending the way they see fit.

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

Why is everyone so hung up on having every single mystery addressed? I've spent a lot of time listening to friends whine that the Polar Bears were never given a satisfactory explanation, or that the show will be ruined if the whispers are not developed further. Why are the minute fantastic elements that exist only to color the atmosphere in a show that relies primarily on character interaction so important? I'm perfectly fine with a few unexplained questions.

 

[Planet-man]

I don't need every mystery completely solved. I need the ones that were blatantly implied to actually have answers solved. The Whispers, for example, were not just some trivial element there to "color the atmosphere" and nothing more. They were a frequent, tantalizingly inexplicable element that has been developed since the beginning of the show, has been one of the most speculated-on theories by fans, and the writers(who have debunked most of those theories, on the show or off it) know people are expecting an answer to them.

If they don't have answers, or can only make up last-ditch ones that don't address what they used them for in the first place, that's not art, not remotely satisfying. It's a scam where you tell people you have something, get them to pay for it(with ratings and recommendations in this case), but you don't have it and can only make up a lackluster version later, if at all. It's a pyramid scheme.

In summary: I don't mind if they don't fully answer things that were always intended to be artistically ambiguous. I mind if they don't answer things that blatantly weren't, because they were making it up as they went and are not clever enough to write a satisfactory solution at this point.

 

[Random]

Why is everyone so hung up on having every single mystery addressed? I've spent a lot of time listening to friends whine that the Polar Bears were never given a satisfactory explanation, or that the show will be ruined if the whispers are not developed further. Why are the minute fantastic elements that exist only to color the atmosphere in a show that relies primarily on character interaction so important? I'm perfectly fine with a few unexplained questions.

Same here though there are some things I would like to have cleared up. The Polar Bears were answered in season 3, they were simply brought as zoological studies for the Dharma initiate, why did they bring polars bears doesn't matter. I think people want more from the whispers cause for a long running question with no build up it was just "oh by the way" I would like to see those left behind come into a bigger role cause it would be interesting.

For me I have some lingering question but those probably will not nor need to be answered in the show. Things like did Ben press the button, Did Desmond see Claire on the helicopter, or why can Eloise see time? None of these really matter and I don't expect or care if the show answers them but I would like to hear the writers talk about them. A few weeks ago they did answer the Annie question and I loved their response and really I'd like to hear them discuss the series as a whole without having to hold back just in case.

I don't need every mystery completely solved. I need the ones that were blatantly implied to actually have answers solved. The Whispers, for example, were not just some trivial element there to "color the atmosphere" and nothing more. They were a frequent, tantalizingly inexplicable element that has been developed since the beginning of the show, has been one of the most speculated-on theories by fans, and the writers(who have debunked most of those theories, on the show or off it) know people are expecting an answer to them.

If they don't have answers, or can only make up last-ditch ones that don't address what they used them for in the first place, that's not art, not remotely satisfying. It's a scam where you tell people you have something, get them to pay for it(with ratings and recommendations in this case), but you don't have it and can only make up a lackluster version later, if at all. It's a pyramid scheme.

In summary: I don't mind if they don't fully answer things that were always intended to be artistically ambiguous. I mind if they don't answer things that blatantly weren't, because they were making it up as they went and are not clever enough to write a satisfactory solution at this point.

I didn't see it as them suddenly making it up just to get it out there. I have a feeling they knew the whispers were ghost in season 4 when Miles came along to explore the after life mysteries. And it makes sense for Hurley to realize it just then, because that episode is the first time he's heard them since attaining his abilities. My problem was that during the episode they didn't build and explore the whispers to make that reveal a but more poignant. Just something simple as after Hurley talks to Michael have Lepidus ask about them (hinting they heard it when Michael came). Have Jack and Ben discuss for a line or two from both perspectives of the survivors and the Others. Just a few lines. That simple set up could have made a world of difference. So I don't believe at all it was just made up for this episode just more thrown in and poorly executed.

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

I don't need every mystery completely solved. I need the ones that were blatantly implied to actually have answers solved. The Whispers, for example, were not just some trivial element there to "color the atmosphere" and nothing more. They were a frequent, tantalizingly inexplicable element that has been developed since the beginning of the show, has been one of the most speculated-on theories by fans, and the writers(who have debunked most of those theories, on the show or off it) know people are expecting an answer to them.

If they don't have answers, or can only make up last-ditch ones that don't address what they used them for in the first place, that's not art, not remotely satisfying. It's a scam where you tell people you have something, get them to pay for it(with ratings and recommendations in this case), but you don't have it and can only make up a lackluster version later, if at all. It's a pyramid scheme.

In summary: I don't mind if they don't fully answer things that were always intended to be artistically ambiguous. I mind if they don't answer things that blatantly weren't, because they were making it up as they went and are not clever enough to write a satisfactory solution at this point.

I think you're exaggerating a bit. I'd think that amongst fans, the character arcs and more metaphysical elements of LOST are more worthy of speculation than, say, whispers in the jungle. It's not a scam or pyramid scheme or evidence of the writers' artistic bankruptcy. The whispers are just a throwaway motif that were given a throwaway explanation; it really didn't bother me. Same with the polar bears, The Others, and time travel. LOST's fantasy and sci fi elements have primarily existed as a means of accentuating points of what's otherwise a character driven narrative.

I think that the writers have tied enough plotlines together and sufficiently foreshadowed the final act of the show to evidence that they're not just "making this up as they go along". Getting hung up on what is ultimately trivial in the grand scheme of a show with the scope of LOST seems like a very poor way to watch the show. There is certainly plenty to remain critical about; LOST is self referential, occasionally overly tangential and tends to play fast and loose with its narrative motifs. However, it seems to me like no one is interested in providing a thorough critique; if you ask me, this overemphasis of the little mysteries is just fanwank.

 

[Planet-man]

I didn't see it as them suddenly making it up just to get it out there. I have a feeling they knew the whispers were ghost in season 4 when Miles came along to explore the after life mysteries. And it makes sense for Hurley to realize it just then, because that episode is the first time he's heard them since attaining his abilities. My problem was that during the episode they didn't build and explore the whispers to make that reveal a but more poignant. Just something simple as after Hurley talks to Michael have Lepidus ask about them (hinting they heard it when Michael came). Have Jack and Ben discuss for a line or two from both perspectives of the survivors and the Others. Just a few lines. That simple set up could have made a world of difference. So I don't believe at all it was just made up for this episode just more thrown in and poorly executed.

Coming up with that in season 4, as in, after three straight years of using them, counts as making it up as you go along to me, especially since Hurley's explanation doesn't solve a thing about how the Whispers were used for the majority of their appearances, things like them repeatedly preceding the Others showing up, especially to kidnap people, and more importantly why they ONLY are heard on the island when the show's established there are ghosts all over the world.

I think you're exaggerating a bit. I'd think that amongst fans, the character arcs and more metaphysical elements of LOST are more worthy of speculation than, say, whispers in the jungle.

Where did I ever say they weren't? That doesn't mean the actual mysteries of the show aren't worthy of speculation or answer at all, and the whispers still are one of the most speculated on mysteries among fans in my experience, on and off the net. Always have been.

It's not a scam or pyramid scheme or evidence of the writers' artistic bankruptcy. The whispers are just a throwaway motif that were given a throwaway explanation;

I absolutely disagree. They have never been used as a background element. They have always been jarring and important, characters focusing on them, talking about them, in at least one case a scene ending in a cliffhanger simply because a character started to hear them(Sawyer, I think). They are a mystery. The writers know there are many people watching in part to find out what they are(yes, people who care more about that than Kate's nauseating moral conflict of the week).

LOST is a character driven show, but saying that the character-driveness eclipses the plot-driveness to the degree you are is, I think, naive.

I think that the writers have tied enough plotlines together and sufficiently foreshadowed the final act of the show to evidence that they're not just "making this up as they go along". Getting hung up on what is ultimately trivial in the grand scheme of a show with the scope of LOST seems like a very poor way to watch the show. There is certainly plenty to remain critical about; LOST is self referential, occasionally overly tangential and tends to play fast and loose with its narrative motifs. However, it seems to me like no one is interested in providing a thorough critique; if you ask me, this overemphasis of the little mysteries is just fanwank.

I agree. We just disagree on which mysteries are trivial and which are not, and were blatantly implied to have an answer, and so should have one.

 

[Random]

I have to say I really disagree with you here. First the whispers aren't solely dedicated to the Others arrival, just more commonly. Just from looking as Lostpedia: They've appeared to Sawyed when he's chasing the boar warning him "It'll come back around", when Walt appeared to Shannon, they are heard before Shannon was shot, before Eko encounters that monster, Micheal twice on the boat, there are more. But really they're heard almost as much for other reasons than just the Others. So why the are heard commonly around when the others appear is still subject to theory. Second I definitely would not consider it a major plot point over a mysterious effect to a more important event or to enhance a certain scene. I think just about everyone would be fine if they were never definitively answered, just a mysterious element to speculate over.

Now, after reading the article on the whispers I feel the whisper being the dead works out quite nicely. They seem to warn the survivors, I believe the dead are trying to reach out and can only be physically heard at certain times. I'm thinking it may have to do with pockets of electromagnetic properties, I'm going to compare it to cell phones. Think of the electromagnetic areas like cell towers. There are a few very powerful towers with small range, a few pop up for small lengths of time in other areas, and others are people inherently special to the island. Now if a spirit is within range of any of these towers they can make a call. They were heard in the hatch when Sayid was torturing Henry Gale cause they were trying to reach Sayid to stop him. Sawyer heard them during the boar episode cause and area temporarily opened up and they wanted him to find redemption in the life he took. and their heard around smoke monster cause he's a powerful tower himself. And the others as a group combined with the survivor's presences and the dead's need to warn them of the ambush creates enough of a tower. And that could answer your question why they can only be heard on the island because of it's unique properties.

 

[Planet-man]

I have to say I really disagree with you here. First the whispers aren't solely dedicated to the Others arrival, just more commonly.

:roll:

Did you even read my post? I quote:

the Whispers were used for the majority of their appearances, things like them repeatedly preceding the Others showing up

I basically said the exact same thing as you, and you somehow get "the whispers are solely dedicated to the Others arrival". You're making up up facts you disagree with, attributing them to me, and then rebutting them. Why bother?

Now, after reading the article on the whispers I feel the whisper being the dead works out quite nicely. They seem to warn the survivors, I believe the dead are trying to reach out and can only be physically heard at certain times. I'm thinking it may have to do with pockets of electromagnetic properties, I'm going to compare it to cell phones. Think of the electromagnetic areas like cell towers. There are a few very powerful towers with small range, a few pop up for small lengths of time in other areas, and others are people inherently special to the island. Now if a spirit is within range of any of these towers they can make a call. They were heard in the hatch when Sayid was torturing Henry Gale cause they were trying to reach Sayid to stop him. Sawyer heard them during the boar episode cause and area temporarily opened up and they wanted him to find redemption in the life he took. and their heard around smoke monster cause he's a powerful tower himself. And the others as a group combined with the survivor's presences and the dead's need to warn them of the ambush creates enough of a tower. And that could answer your question why they can only be heard on the island because of it's unique properties.

A million things COULD answer it, but I don't want them from you, or other fans, because we could've done that if the show had been cancelled years ago. I want them from the show which is why I, and millions of others, KEEP WATCHING IT.

And the idea that "just about everyone" would be "fine" if they never answered mysteries like this is absurd. Absurd. Almost every single one of my LOST-watching friends have given up on the show completely over the past few years because they were so dissatisfied at their favourite plotlines gradually being ignored(even though..... gasp.... they had gigabytes of fanwank to satiate them). I used to have around twenty people I discussed it with in real life and now have maybe two.

All I can say is to mark my words - if the show ends and they haven't given a satisfactory answer to the majority, if not almost all, of the mysteries that are at least as big as the whispers(other examples being Eloise the time-guide, Walt shennanigans, the items Richard showed to young Locke, etc but this is all a matter of opinion), the **** is going to hit the fan, and you guys, not me, are going to be the ones in the minority.

I don't think the show necessarily WILL end this way, I have hope that the majority of speculation is going to come from the finale asking a bunch of new questions instead of ignoring old ones, but if it does, it's not going to be seen as something "fine".

 

[Captain Canuck]

Planet-man, i think you get a little too fired up about these discussions sometimes. But, I have to agree, I'll be kind of annoyed if they don't at least explain the whispers better and what the heck was up with Walt, and Aaron, and why babies and mommies die in child-birth.

However, Damon and Carleton have been saying for ages that they aren't even going to try to explain most of the mysteries. There's way too much to explain. Most of it wouldn't even be interesting. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even explain who the Man in Black is or who Jacob is. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter to the story.

 

[Random]

:roll:

Did you even read my post? I quote:

I basically said the exact same thing as you, and you somehow get "the whispers are solely dedicated to the Others arrival". You're making up up facts you disagree with, attributing them to me, and then rebutting them. Why bother?

Eh to be honest I skimmed it cause I really don't care if it meets your or anyone else satisfactions (I don't mean this to sound mean). So I don't really want to invest to much time when I wasn't planing on being this involved in the debate. My bad. My point was suppose to be that it isn't a major plot point and is more closely to a thematic element to heighten a scene and bring attention to something else and rarely was it's own thing. Basically what I mean is while its good to get answers for it it's not big enough to warrant it's own episode to uncover. In my opinion they got a reasonable uncovering for the importance they carried, just had very poor set up to the reveal.

A million things COULD answer it, but I don't want them from you, or other fans, because we could've done that if the show had been cancelled years ago. I want them from the show which is why I, and millions of others, KEEP WATCHING IT.

And that second paragraph wasn't meant directly at you or this debate, it was just me generally speculating jumping off a point you made earlier. Plus I really would want the writers to have some explicitly state the exact physical and rules to fit in every occasion they were used it would turn out absurd. Instead they just explained the nature of them in a reasonable manner to us so that we can put the pieces together ourselves

And the idea that "just about everyone" would be "fine" if they never answered mysteries like this is absurd. Absurd. Almost every single one of my LOST-watching friends have given up on the show completely over the past few years because they were so dissatisfied at their favourite plotlines gradually being ignored. I used to have around twenty people I discussed it with in real life and now have maybe two.

Hmm, that's odd cause everyone I know loves the show even more. In fact when the show began the only person I knew who watched it was a random acquittance I sat next in lunch and now nearly everyone I know loves it. And personally there have been very few plot lines ignore that I cared about. And honestly most of those are more due to the natural evolution of producing a television series than blatant disregard.

All I can say is to mark my words - if the show ends and they haven't given a satisfactory answer to the majority, if not almost all, of the mysteries that are at least as big as the whispers(other examples being Eloise the time-guide, Walt shennanigans, the items Richard showed to young Locke, etc but this is all a matter of opinion), the **** is going to hit the fan, and you guys, not me, are going to be the ones in the minority.

As you said what's important is a matter of opinion and at the end of the day it's up to the writers to decide what's important, what needs to be answered. And I have absolute trust in them. And of the things you listed I agree with Eloise and Walt, but I consider the Richards items to be not as important. It was just a test Alpert had for Locke all we really needed to know was "hunter knife = bad" exactly where those items came from and their exact meaning of each item really wouldn't tell you much or be some huge revelation. It'd be nice to know but when Richard talked to Jack in the 1970's we learned all we really needed to know.

Take Annie for instance, (and this is just for the general small questions) everyone knew she was going to be "important" to Ben later on and that turned out not to be the case. But the writers wrote her for that story as a innocence and pure loving relationship he had as a child and that he basically gave that up to be the leader of the others, something he's looking for in Juliet. I find that satisfying to me, so try just looking at the small scale and how those questions play their role rather than examining the role itself.

I don't think the show necessarily WILL end this way, I have hope that the majority of speculation is going to come from the finale asking a bunch of new questions instead of ignoring old ones, but if it does, it's not going to be seen as something "fine".

I doubt the finale with be asking a bunch of questions, it will have debatable interpretations. But I highly doubt they'd ended like every episode before it. As I said as long as there's closure and I can walk away from it I'm fine. They've always been good at answering most of the questions they asked so I have faith.

 

[Planet-man]

Planet-man, i think you get a little too fired up about these discussions sometimes. But, I have to agree, I'll be kind of annoyed if they don't at least explain the whispers better and what the heck was up with Walt, and Aaron, and why babies and mommies die in child-birth.

I admit I get fired up, but it's because I feel very strongly about the issues I get fired up about. LOST has been a very important part of my life for the past six years and I just don't want to see it turn into what it's been made fun of for being for years(a Chris Carter-esque prank). That, plus inherently frustrating stuff like things I never said being attributed to be and then disagreed with, sets me off.

 

[Planet-man]

Eh to be honest I skimmed it cause I really don't care if it meets your or anyone else satisfactions (I don't mean this to sound mean). So I don't really want to invest to much time when I wasn't planing on being this involved in the debate. My bad.

Uh-huh. Like I said at the time, why bother?

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

This is not even close to a constructive discussion anymore. We've all made it clear that we want different things out of the finale--it's best to leave it at that. Unfortunately, a show like LOST is going to be intrinsically polarizing. Undoubtedly, some of us will be happy to view the magic jungle whispers peripherally and some of us will not. I don't see the use in getting this heated.

 

[Random]

Uh-huh. Like I said at the time, why bother?

Eh, cause I'm bored and feel like discussing Lost. Plus I'm looking for opportunity to insert "Eh" into the beginning of all my posts

 

[Captain Canuck]

This is not even close to a constructive discussion anymore. We've all made it clear that we want different things out of the finale--it's best to leave it at that. Unfortunately, a show like LOST is going to be intrinsically polarizing. Undoubtedly, some of us will be happy to view the magic jungle whispers peripherally and some of us will not. I don't see the use in getting this heated.

i concur.

 

[ProjectX2]

My problem isn't with whether the answers to these questions are revealed or not - it's how they are revealed. When we learned that Desmond crashed the plane, it was a two hour finale filled with epic adventure and intense confrontations between all of these characters. The most emotional character of the show became a character we had only seen two or three times before that.

Compare something like that to the whispers - the whispers are probably a more important question than what the plane crashed but look at how they were answered - "yeah, we're the whispers." I know most of us presumed the whispers were dead people but the revelation was such a let down - like Random said, there was no set up at all. At that moment, I just imagined a scene in the writer's room where they were all going through a checklist of things they felt were important to answer and went "we need to answer the whispers!" and another writer said "I'll just put it into this guy's dialogue!" The way they answered that question felt like they were running out of time and had left it to the last minute, and if they are going to answer their questions like that, I'd rather they not bother.

Like I said before, I'm fine if most of the story isn't answered (especially if they're going to answer these questions halfheartedly) but I do want all of the characters to have a resolution. I felt that this show was originally about the characters and has since become plot, which is fine, but I think it definitely needs to end with the story about the characters.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the last episodes. I have no idea what is going to happen and I like that.

 

[Random]

My problem isn't with whether the answers to these questions are revealed or not - it's how they are revealed. When we learned that Desmond crashed the plane, it was a two hour finale filled with epic adventure and intense confrontations between all of these characters. The most emotional character of the show became a character we had only seen two or three times before that.

Compare something like that to the whispers - the whispers are probably a more important question than what the plane crashed but look at how they were answered - "yeah, we're the whispers." I know most of us presumed the whispers were dead people but the revelation was such a let down - like Random said, there was no set up at all. At that moment, I just imagined a scene in the writer's room where they were all going through a checklist of things they felt were important to answer and went "we need to answer the whispers!" and another writer said "I'll just put it into this guy's dialogue!" The way they answered that question felt like they were running out of time and had left it to the last minute, and if they are going to answer their questions like that, I'd rather they not bother.

I feel that they figured sometime ago that the whisper would be reveal through Hurley by conversations with the dead. And one writer say "hey this hurley centric episode would be a good time to do it" but beyond that they didn't develop the reveal and followed through focusing on the other aspects of the episode instead. They were so focused on the hurley story it overshadowed the reveal.