Legends of Tomorrow news & discussion. [Spoilers]

Re: Legends of Tomorrow (Flash/Arrow spinoff) news & discussion.

Captain Canuck said:
I'm really not enjoying this show very much so far. It's trying too hard to be funny and awesome.
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I thought the first episode and the future Star City was good, but outside of that I'm not caring for this show. Glad I'm not alone. They spent a whole episode on the ship, why is this 16 episodes long?
 
wyokid said:
I thought the first episode and the future Star City was good, but outside of that I'm not caring for this show. Glad I'm not alone. They spent a whole episode on the ship, why is this 16 episodes long?
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Yeah, i liked the future star city one too, but because of the "cool factor" not because it was well done. The whole show is a crossover event comic come to life. Which is fine, but not my thing. Although i want to seevthe one where they meet Jonah Hex too.
 
Is anyone still watching this? Apparently Talia al Ghul showed up as a young child. I wonder why we haven't seen her before now.
 
"Let's spend three episodes in the 1970's! Where do we go after that? The 1980's for two episodes of course! Let's do something interesting in this next one, but we need to follow it up with a bottle episode on this ship. Then let's show how "out of touch" and terrible the 1950's are and make it unrealistically progressive as possible to show how mature and adult we are. Also let's make the bad guy as non-threatening as possible by having the heroes win or escape in almost every episode"

I haven't seen the new episode, but this show is such a massive letdown. There's no reason they needed 16 episodes to tell this story, Savage is a lame villain, the bigotry in the 1950's episode was incredibly unrealistic and forced (for this done well check out 11.22.63, which you should be watching anyway), they took way too much from modern Doctor Who as far as tone and rules go, and while I like the main characters they're not doing anything remotely interesting. It's just such a disappointment.
 
Ice said:
HOURMAN!

JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA!!!

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:
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That was great.

So, we've already got ATOM, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Hourman in the mix, and possibly: Flash/Jay Garrick (assuming it's him in the iron mask on Earth-2), Green Lantern/Alan Scott (since I don't think WB/DC have plans for him in the upcoming films, so the character may be available to use), Spectre (bring back Emmett Scanlan from Constantine, they could cover his death and resurrection as Spectre in one of the episodes), Dr. Fate (could make use of the helmet used on Constantine), maybe Sandman (Wesley Dodds version), and definitely bring back Wildcat and bring Curtis Holt from Arrow.

That'd be an amazing JSA episode. For budget reasons they may have to pare back the characters some, but a good majority of them have already been introduced in the DC-CW reality. May as well capitalize on that in the most awesome way possible. :)

It'd be great if they have to recruit the JSA members one by one, allowing their reintroduction (and intro/origin/transformation story of need be) to face the Ultra-Humanite and Injustice Society. Intro/backstory and recruitment in an episode, maybe a filler, another recruitment episode, until team is reunited or complete.
 
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Marc Guggenheim said that Alan Scott is tied up with the movie-verse, even though I don't think he'll be used there also. I want to hope that's a lie to trick people, but it's WB after all...
 
The LoT finale to the Invasion crossover continued the threads of Barry's time travel and Flashpoint timeline, including it being the reason the Dominators invaded. They did a great job focusing on the ramifications of that bad decision and the fallout from it. Still a lot of fun but with some justifiable weight behind the Dominators motivations, which in turn made them sympathetic and relatable villains in a sense.

It's still cheesier than nachos with extra cheese, but that's part of the DC CW show's charm, that Silver Age influence that the shows have (well, Arrow not so much but the others certainly do).

The government/intelligence agencies getting involved (besides just ARGUS) was also a nice touch and made sense, and also introduced a potential plot thread for use in future regarding the government's apprehension over the metahumans (though Supergirl's Cadmus plotline also touches on that, but we haven't seen too much of that on the Earth-1 set shows yet, least not in relation to the metahumans).

And that rooftop battle was a lot of fun. Sort of the low budget version of the Captain America - Civil War airport fight, where everyone got a chance to shine and use their powers as a team. True comic geekery achieved.

The in jokes were great too. Ray's "She kind of looks like my cousin" referring to Kara was a nod to Superman Returns, and Kara calling them "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" was a dig at the Avengers. Good stuff.
 
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This had two actual crossover episodes and will still probably be better than Justice League will be. The Supergirl episode had no reason to be a part of the crossover, and wasn't even advertised as part of it in other countries, but was still a solid episode of an incredibly solid season. The Flash was a great setup and I liked how big Flashpoint ended up being to everything. Arrow was incredibly disappointing, especially when you compare it to Reckoning from Smallville. Reckoning was a great 100th episode with Lana dying and Clark resetting it only to have Jonathan die in an emotional climax, Arrow's 100th episode fell as flat as Deathstroke's return did. They should have had Tommy be the Green Arrow and Roy should have appeared. They tried so hard to do something special, but even having Laurel and him married just felt like a slap in the face to fans. It also barely connected and the best part was at the end when it was actually part of the crossover. Hopefully there will be an episode like Homecoming to really celebrate the show at some point. The Legends of Tomorrow episode was a the highlight and really felt like a continuation to the story The Flash set up. The rooftop battle reminded me of that pan from The Avengers showing off everyone fighting the Chitauri and looked just as good.

DIrishB said:
Silver Age
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Not really, maybe Marvel Silver Age. DC's Silver Age had Jimmy Olsen turning into a giant turtle man, Batman fighting aliens made of corn, Superman burning Jimmy's Christmas sweater, etc. These shows feel like classic DC. 80's-90's and Rebirth.
 
wyokid said:
This had two actual crossover episodes and will still probably be better than Justice League will be. The Supergirl episode had no reason to be a part of the crossover, and wasn't even advertised as part of it in other countries, but was still a solid episode of an incredibly solid season. The Flash was a great setup and I liked how big Flashpoint ended up being to everything. Arrow was incredibly disappointing, especially when you compare it to Reckoning from Smallville. Reckoning was a great 100th episode with Lana dying and Clark resetting it only to have Jonathan die in an emotional climax, Arrow's 100th episode fell as flat as Deathstroke's return did. They should have had Tommy be the Green Arrow and Roy should have appeared. They tried so hard to do something special, but even having Laurel and him married just felt like a slap in the face to fans. It also barely connected and the best part was at the end when it was actually part of the crossover. Hopefully there will be an episode like Homecoming to really celebrate the show at some point. The Legends of Tomorrow episode was a the highlight and really felt like a continuation to the story The Flash set up. The rooftop battle reminded me of that pan from The Avengers showing off everyone fighting the Chitauri and looked just as good.



Not really, maybe Marvel Silver Age. DC's Silver Age had Jimmy Olsen turning into a giant turtle man, Batman fighting aliens made of corn, Superman burning Jimmy's Christmas sweater, etc. These shows feel like classic DC. 80's-90's and Rebirth.
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Yeah, that's fair. I am FAR more familiar with Marvel's Silver Age than I am with DC's, but there is an undeniable element of lightheartedness (except Arrow) and fun that was a benchmark of the Silver Age era (even the Golden Age is arguably more cynical than the Silver Age). Not specifically to DC at the time, just in general the more lighthearted and fun tone of the comics at the time, which admittedly I was far more informed by Marvel's stuff of that era (Spider-Man, X-Men, Fantastic Four) than I was by DC. I read like 90% Batman and Batman spin off titles as a kid and young teen. My DC knowledge as a kid was severely limited. Still is compared to Marvel.

You're right about it echoing the 80's and 90's, though this does bring up an interesting comparative study of the two companies respective approaches.

The shows overall are just fun overall. They've all managed to get that important element back. Even the depressing disappointing black sheep Arrow has improved quite a bit.
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DIrishB said:
Yeah, that's fair. I am FAR more familiar with Marvel's Silver Age than I am with DC's, but there is an undeniable element of lightheartedness (except Arrow) and fun that was a benchmark of the Silver Age era (even the Golden Age is arguably more cynical than the Silver Age). Not specifically to DC at the time, just in general the more lighthearted and fun tone of the comics at the time, which admittedly I was far more informed by Marvel's stuff of that era (Spider-Man, X-Men, Fantastic Four) than I was by DC. I read like 90% Batman and Batman spin off titles as a kid and young teen. My DC knowledge as a kid was severely limited. Still is compared to Marvel.
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Yeah, you should see the kind of stuff going on at the Distinguished Competitor at the time.

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DIrishB said:
You're right about it echoing the 80's and 90's, though this does bring up an interesting comparative study of the two companies respective approaches.
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DC Comics THRIVED in the 80's-early 2000's. Some of the best stuff they ever made is in there, meanwhile Marvel's worst stuff came out during most of that time period. It's really odd.

DIrishB said:
The shows overall are just fun overall. They've all managed to get that important element back. Even the depressing disappointing black sheep Arrow has improved quite a bit.
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I'd say it's on par with season two, but that's not saying much.
 
So this whole crossover was worth it for the "she kind of looks like my cousin" line. I laughed really loudly.

Besides that, it was fun, and cheesy.

The major problem with these shows is the terrible logic of the heroes. The Dominators are about to destroy the world because of Barry and the others won't let him turn himself in. And Steel (is that his name?) says "Maybe we do more harm than good, maybe not. Now's a good time to find out."

No, it isn't! The world is hanging in the balance!

That's the same stupid logic that Barry keeps using.

End of Flash Season 1:
"If you go back in time you could create a singularity that will destroy the planet."
"That's a risk I'm willing to take."

Beginning of Flash Season 2:
"Ronnie died because of me, that's something I'm going to have live with."
(Whole skyscrapers broke off and got sucked into the singularity and that's never addressed).

End of Flash Season 2:
"I have to go back and save my mom, no matter the cost."

Beginning of Flash Season 3:
The cost is high.

Middle of season 3:
The world is in danger because of Barry's time traveling. Should Barry turn himself in? Nooooo!
"Maybe we do more harm than good, maybe not. Now's a good time to find out."

"You have to forgive yourself, man... You're one of the best men I know."

Good grief! Someone lock him up in the pipeline guantanamo for goodness sake!

But if you can get past that, the show is fun. :)
 
This sums it up best.


Captain Canuck said:
So this whole crossover was worth it for the "she kind of looks like my cousin" line. I laughed really loudly.

Besides that, it was fun, and cheesy.

The major problem with these shows is the terrible logic of the heroes. The Dominators are about to destroy the world because of Barry and the others won't let him turn himself in. And Steel (is that his name?) says "Maybe we do more harm than good, maybe not. Now's a good time to find out."

No, it isn't! The world is hanging in the balance!

That's the same stupid logic that Barry keeps using.

End of Flash Season 1:
"If you go back in time you could create a singularity that will destroy the planet."
"That's a risk I'm willing to take."

Beginning of Flash Season 2:
"Ronnie died because of me, that's something I'm going to have live with."
(Whole skyscrapers broke off and got sucked into the singularity and that's never addressed).

End of Flash Season 2:
"I have to go back and save my mom, no matter the cost."

Beginning of Flash Season 3:
The cost is high.

Middle of season 3:
The world is in danger because of Barry's time traveling. Should Barry turn himself in? Nooooo!
"Maybe we do more harm than good, maybe not. Now's a good time to find out."

"You have to forgive yourself, man... You're one of the best men I know."

Good grief! Someone lock him up in the pipeline guantanamo for goodness sake!

But if you can get past that, the show is fun. :)
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You should be watching Babylon 5 if you want to see the best use of time travel ever on TV. Brilliant.

These shows are a joke in that respect. Tropey, cliched, predictable, chock full of plot holes and misguided character directions. There's no steady logic to the shows. They're just guilty pleasure type shows, that appeal mainly for their comic adaptation aspects.
 
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DIrishB said:
This sums it up best.
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Yup.




You should be watching Babylon 5 if you want to see the best use of time travel ever on TV. Brilliant.
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I think I was about 8 when that first aired on TV. I watched the first couple episodes by there was one about an alien that ate people's souls (or something, it was a long time ago) and it freaked me out and I never watched it again. I should check it out.

These shows are a joke in that respect. Tropey, cliched, predictable, chock full of plot holes and misguided character directions. There's no steady logic to the shows. They're just guilty pleasure type shows, that appeal mainly for their comic adaptation aspects.
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Yup.
 
Captain Canuck said:
I think I was about 8 when that first aired on TV. I watched the first couple episodes by there was one about an alien that ate people's souls (or something, it was a long time ago) and it freaked me out and I never watched it again. I should check it out.
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I had this happen to me. I have no idea what it was, but my sisters were watching this thing where a guy walked into a room and spooky music was playing. There was a mound of what looked like vomit with maggots in it on the floor, he steps in it, and I don't remember what happened next, but next thing I remember he is at the sink in the same room puking. Freaked me out and I always wondered what it was. I know I'd recognize it if I saw again too.
 
wyokid said:
I had this happen to me. I have no idea what it was, but my sisters were watching this thing where a guy walked into a room and spooky music was playing. There was a mound of what looked like vomit with maggots in it on the floor, he steps in it, and I don't remember what happened next, but next thing I remember he is at the sink in the same room puking. Freaked me out and I always wondered what it was. I know I'd recognize it if I saw again too.
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I haven't watched the end of Fantasia since I was a kid for the same reason.
 
Captain Canuck said:
Yup.




I think I was about 8 when that first aired on TV. I watched the first couple episodes by there was one about an alien that ate people's souls (or something, it was a long time ago) and it freaked me out and I never watched it again. I should check it out.



Yup.
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Dude, I can't recommend Babylon 5 enough. It's a perfect example of using TV medium to tell a well planned, long form story over five seasons. It elevates television sci-fi to truly impressive levels in terms of its quality of writing.

Instead of the week to week episode approach, JMS planned each season out, wrote the scripts for the vast majority, and built an entire universal history for the show before it ever even was picked up.

And the work shows. The foreshadowing is brilliantly done (since he knew how the story would end). The hints dropped along the way are truly perfect, especially when you go back and rewatch knowing how it ends.

Every time Kosh speaks it's simply enthralling. The dialogue JMS wrote for him and the many other memorable characters is just epic. Mercurial and vague on first watching, but incredibly spot on when rewatching and knowing what he means.

"The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."

Seriously, if you're a fan of Star Trek, Babylon 5 does the same but better. Much, much better. And let's not forget that Star Trek literally directly ripped off and largely plagiarized JMS' Babylon 5 scripts and idea for a sci fi show set on space station for Deep Space Nine (the similarities are too obvious not to notice).

It's dated at this point, with its early CGI and limited budget costumes, but it's one of my all time favorite series. I collected all the DVDs, novels, and comics, and still have them all to this day (having gone through them all several times over).

It really is likely the most underrated piece of science fiction television ever, in my opinion. Londo, G'Kar, Kosh, Sinclair... all wonderfully written and amazing characters.
 
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