Inception (spoilers!)

[DARKKNIGHT]

Re: Inception

If anyone cares to help, here are a few questions I had concerning the movie:

Spoiler

1.) Why is it that Saito has aged much more than Cobb when they finally meet in the "limbo world"?
2.) Am I mistaken or does death apparently free you from dream limbo? If so, why is it such a big deal?

I'm sure there are more...I'm just too tired to think of them right now.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Inception

I know I'm going to catch some heat for this, but I really wasn't that impressed. :?

It had it's moments and there are some very good aspects of the film (such as the top notch acting), but I couldn't help but think that the story was kind of all over the place. And I'm just not talking about all the dream world stuff.

Spoiler

Take Cillian Murphy's characters relationship with his dad. At first it's just something Cobbs team is going to exploit to serve their own ends, but then in the end we have this teary heart to heart between father and son...I just didn't buy it.

Maybe some of the problems I had with the film will work themselves out when I see it again.

Spoiler

b/c they manipulated his subconscience to make him that emotional about it. That was the point. They took a simple idea, went down really deep into his subconscious, where they said explicitly ideas and thoughts are expressed as strong emotions and crafted a scenario that would result in action in the real world

If anyone cares to help, here are a few questions I had concerning the movie:

Spoiler

1.) Why is it that Saito has aged much more than Cobb when they finally meet in the "limbo world"?

b

Spoiler

/c he had been there for so much longer. Remember how time goes by so much more slowly in the limbo world? Saito was shot in the first level of the dream and died in all three levels. So I assume that minutes after he died in the first level, he had been in limbo for decades. But Cobb entered limbo only from the third level so he hadn't been there very long.

Or something. I took it that the subconscious limbo was nebulous enough that rules could be bent.

Spoiler

2.) Am I mistaken or does death apparently free you from dream limbo? If so, why is it such a big deal?

I'm sure there are more...I'm just too tired to think of them right now.

Spoiler

Death frees you from dream/subconscious limbo, but you get lost in your subconscious and forget who you are and why you are there. You lose track of reality until something makes you remember. Cobb was able to get out at a younger age than Saito b/c they reminded each other that they weren't in reality.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

Re: Inception

Spoiler

b/c they manipulated his subconscience to make him that emotional about it. That was the point. They took a simple idea, went down really deep into his subconscious, where they said explicitly ideas and thoughts are expressed as strong emotions and crafted a scenario that would result in action in the real world

that dawned on me while i was thinking about it after i posted that. that's why I ended up taking it out of my post. i was pretty tired when I saw this movie so I might have to go back and see it. thanks for the help though.

Spoiler

b/c he had been there for so much longer. Remember how time goes by so much more slowly in the limbo world? Saito was shot in the first level of the dream and died in all three levels. So I assume that minutes after he died in the first level, he had been in limbo for decades. But Cobb entered limbo only from the third level so he hadn't been there very long.

Or something. I took it that the subconscious limbo was nebulous enough that rules could be bent.

that's what I was thinking for my first question. I think I missed the part some how about the different time lengths of the different levels. Some ass next to me was making a bunch of noise eating his popcorn so I was getting distracted. :x

Spoiler

Death frees you from dream/subconscious limbo, but you get lost in your subconscious and forget who you are and why you are there. You lose track of reality until something makes you remember. Cobb was able to get out at a younger age than Saito b/c they reminded each other that they weren't in reality.

alright, that makes sense.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Inception

that's what I was thinking for my first question. I think I missed the part some how about the different time lengths of the different levels. Some ass next to me was making a bunch of noise eating his popcorn so I was getting distracted. :x

yeah, they said for every five minutes of real time, your dream feels like an hour. Every level down that is compounded, so by the third level five minutes of real time is 10 years and in the limbo it's decades.

 

[Planet-man]

Re: Inception

An Illustrated Guide To The Five Levels Of Inception

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Inception

yeah, that's well done.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

Re: Inception

the more I think about this movie the more I like it, which is the opposite of what happens with most movies. I think I may have been a bit too hard on it for being different than what I expected...which isn't fair. I'm definitely going to have to see this again.

This kind of sums up a few of the reservations I've had about the film:http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45790

 

[Langsta]

Re: Inception

This kind of sums up a few of the reservations I've had about the film:http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45790

Very interesting.

It's funny, I just wrote a long argument against lecturer and filmmaker David Wilcock and his theories about humanity, religion, Atlantis, an intelligent energy field which binds us and which the ancient Egyptians somehow tried to harness using the Great Pyramid, and all of that is somehow linked to 2012, and it made me bring up the nature of reality. And after reading that afterthought by Massawyrm, my brain is completely fried.

 

[Zeek]

Re: Inception

He was confused about why people can't touch others' totems? I figured it was because if they did, then the unique weight could be replicated, and that's why Cobb could use his wife's: she's dead, it doesn't matter anymore.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Inception

I thought all the dreaming was the one guy not all of them.

 

[Planet-man]

Re: Inception

I thought all the dreaming was the one guy not all of them.

Nah, because Fischer was the one populating the dreams with his militarized subconscious. The person who populates the dreams isn't the dreamer(as established when Cobb's subconscious attacks Ariadne in her first foray into constructing the city).

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Inception

You know what? I don't think I agree with that chart. At least the first dream level (and I'm pretty sure every level besides reality and limbo) had to have been dreamed by Fischer b/c it was populated by his subconscious. The chart says that the dreamer is the one with the headphones on, but really that's just the person who stays behind from the next level so he can make the kick happen.

Nah, because Fischer was the one populating the dreams with his militarized subconscious. The person who populates the dreams isn't the dreamer(as established when Cobb's subconscious attacks Ariadne in her first foray into constructing the city).

No, the whole point of the machine they hook the guy up to is so the architect can design a dream world that the dreamer can populate and then others can share the dream. The dream world exists in the dreamer's subconscious and is populated by projections of his or her subconscious, but the world itself can be designed and manipulated by the architect. But if it's manipulated too much, then the dreamer will reject it and the subconscious projections will attack the intruders.

 

[Langsta]

Re: Inception

I shared that diagram with some people (I know there has been a lot of debate already over its accuracy), but someone offered to me their interpretation of the movie (one of the possible explanations that Massawyrm described):

"reality" isn't reality. its still another layer, and thats why the top kept spinning. At the beginning when it stopped spinning that was only his projection of it, because hes done the same thing as Mal, forced himself to believe hes still in reality. But really, Mal was right when she was trying to tell him they need to go back another layer. She killed herself and is waiting for him to wake up back home. Mal was right and is not dead, but back in reality. Do you think Cobb and Mal would have kids and then leave them fro fifty some years to go live in another reality? no. The layer that Cobb ends up in with his kids, is yet a dream that him and Mal created before they went to limbo, and made kids there. Thats why his kids never aged or never and were the same memory as before. He may view it as toppling over, but in reality, it keeps spinning because he cant accept to leave that dream

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Inception

my problem with that is that I got the impression that Mal died at least several months ago. So if we assume that Cobb has been on the run for 6 months that means he's been dreaming for about a month. Not to mention that there was time before Mal finally killed herself too. So if "reality" is actually the first level of the dream, then Cobb has been dreaming for a really long time.

One of my friends suggested that Cobb never shot himself in limbo and just stayed there. I find that to be a more believable explanation.

 

[Planet-man]

Re: Inception

No, the whole point of the machine they hook the guy up to is so the architect can design a dream world that the dreamer can populate and then others can share the dream. The dream world exists in the dreamer's subconscious and is populated by projections of his or her subconscious, but the world itself can be designed and manipulated by the architect. But if it's manipulated too much, then the dreamer will reject it and the subconscious projections will attack the intruders.

Sorry, you're right. Had that backwards for the moment.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Inception

Inception made The Dark Knight look like a piece of ****.

Jesus Christ, Christopher Nolan. Stop being fantastic.

 

[Langsta]

Re: Inception

[video=youtube;eazDSWJ6D8s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eazDSWJ6D8s[/video]

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Inception

What I liked about this guy:

I was hoping they would be attacked by a giant poppy from an impressionistic painting. Because really, who hasn't had a dream like that? And also, I'm naked...and late for work...and can't find the room my exam is being held in.

Awesome! :lol:


What I didn't like about this guy:

Anybody...who has a good degree of self knowledge...we all understand that God is a projection...Everything God "does" in the illusion of religion...The whole point of mental maturity...is to pound those projections back into your head...The more you know about yourself, the less likely you are to make the fundamental primal, ape-like mistake of projection your own hidden and powerful unconscious capacities onto some eternal sky-ghost.

I understand that not everyone believes in God and that many of the people who do believe in God have very different beliefs than I do, but it ticks me off when people are so arrogant and disrespectful. He just said straight up that believing in God is for the ignorant, ape-like, un-enlightened, mentally immature. I understand that when it comes to this debate there isn't much room for an 'everyone's belief system is equally right' approach. There either is a higher spiritual power, or there isn't. It can't be both. So I don't mind him stating his belief as fact. I do that all the time. But I try my best not to be demeaning of other people when I do.

 

[Planet-man]

Re: Inception

I understand that not everyone believes in God and that many of the people who do believe in God have very different beliefs than I do, but it ticks me off when people are so arrogant and disrespectful. He just said straight up that believing in God is for the ignorant, ape-like, un-enlightened, mentally immature. I understand that when it comes to this debate there isn't much room for an 'everyone's belief system is equally right' approach. There either is a higher spiritual power, or there isn't. It can't be both. So I don't mind him stating his belief as fact. I do that all the time. But I try my best not to be demeaning of other people when I do.

Even stating your opinion as fact isn't as bad as stating that everybody also AGREES with that fact.... I mean.... what the ****?

(the guy in the video, if that wasn't clear)

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Inception

it was clear.


Thank you. I feel very validated.