I said it and I meant it...

[Victor Von Doom]

...DC's greatest assassin.

Egg Fu? :lol:

 

[Hibiki]

First, Card made Stark superhuman. One of the best things about Tony Stark was that he was a regular guy who was just really smart and created battlearmor. Card made Stark into a walking brain with a healing factor.

Why did Tony create the armor when he already had bio armor? How does having brain tissue all over your body make you smarter? How does a foot fall off? And if this happens so easily (After all, Tony just kicked a guy), how the hell does Tony stay together when fighting? How does Tony just slip on the old Iron Man armor but needs a hundred man crew to get in the new armor? Tony bought a house for his mother in Ultimates 1, but according to UIM, his mothers's been dead since birth. According to UMTU #4, Tony created the Iron Man tech while captured by a foreign government, yet this is completely contridicted in UIM.

There's a blatant amount of inconsitencies. Not to mention the dialogue was often hard to follow.

Well, this may seem like a cop out but Tony could be played to have said those things so people would think he's a personal person. And it could also be played that he created the IM tech he was wearing at the time while captured by a foreign gov't. The house being bought for his mother could have been a code or another cover up to keep people thinking he has family. Then they'll be searching for a make-believe person for a setup against Stark. As for the bio-armor, he was still vulnerable, do I have to bring up the furnace. Would that happen in the IM armor? I'll give you credit on the foot, I didn't understand that.

And exactly how does this turn you into a living brain? Its right up there with powers origins from Batman and Robin.. "I have fallen into all this poisons and plants....so I will get super powers" At least Peter being bitten by a radioactive spider gave him relevant powers..... Tony should have got monkey powers!



I found it painful to read. He took a classic character, and gave him unneccessary powers, in stupid ways, in a story I couldn't even finish. I dropped it after issue 3. Thats saying something, I completed Ultimate Elektra..



That was a bad story. But still far, far superior to Card's drug induced ramblings.


As for the Brain Body thing, having a larger brain does not equal you being more smart, another pseudoscience bullcrap from Card.

How does a radioactive spider give you powers? Why wasn't he susceptible to radiation? Why didn't he die? It seems plausible that he could die from being bitten by a radioactive spider. I mean you could die from a black widow. The monkeys were being tested on the kinda powers that stark now has. Those tests were going to be tested on humans not long after. I mean the tests were for humans to be able to grow back limbs, but were first being tested on monkeys. 616 Lizard/Dr. Conners was doing close to the same thing wasn't he?

 

[Zombipanda]

Well, this may seem like a cop out but Tony could be played to have said those things so people would think he's a personal person. And it could also be played that he created the IM tech he was wearing at the time while captured by a foreign gov't. The house being bought for his mother could have been a code or another cover up to keep people thinking he has family. Then they'll be searching for a make-believe person for a setup against Stark. As for the bio-armor, he was still vulnerable, do I have to bring up the furnace. Would that happen in the IM armor? I'll give you credit on the foot, I didn't understand that.

The problem is, we shouldn't have to make up elaborate theories about why the UIM version of Stark doesn't synch up with the Ultimates version of Stark. We could think up a million theories to explain these inconsistencies, but then again, we shouldn't have to.

The way I see it, the point of an origin story is to provide a clearer context for the main continuity version of the character. The style of the origin story or the personality of the origin character should only diverge from the main version of the character if it can be used to shed more insight into the actions and thought processes of him. And Card's mini doesn't do this. I can't think of a single part of UIM that adds any more dimensions to Stark's character. If anything, it just creates unecessary questions that really don't help.

Particularly, I think Card's idea of making Stark a living brain runs in direct contrast to what the character represents. Stark's on this team of superhumans. Him, Cap, and Thor really present a sort of core triumvirate. Here's Cap, who's this greater-than-life personification of America and Thor who's a ****ing God. And they both personify these conflicting ideologies. And Stark, who's alcoholic and womanizing and very, very human represents this regular guy. He wants to do good, but he's not representative of any one political ideology. And despite his genuinely good nature, he's still subject to vice. Making him into some sort of mutant brain really takes away from the innate humanism of the character.

That's just my take on it.

 

[Hibiki]

I think the fact that he is a genius with a drinking problem just adds to his humanity "persona" as you put it. I think you have a problem with the brain body right? It's not so much that he is a drunk genius, am I wrong?

 

[jtg3885]

Ultimate CreepyVirusThatTurnedTonyStarkIntoASuperhuman ftw.

 

[Hellsbuttmonkey]

How does a radioactive spider give you powers?

My point wasn't 'how' the monkey bites left him with powers, it was why exactly would he become a living brain from it. I used the spider example as Spider bite gave spider powers. I know they gave the 'regenerative virus' reason, but it just seemed...i dunno....crap.

616 Lizard/Dr. Conners was doing close to the same thing wasn't he?

Yes, because lizards CAN do that, hence the connection to the power. ie, lizards can regrow limbs so why not incorporate that into the human body.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Deadpool was fluff and had some annoying depictions of Rogue in action. But it had nice action overall and some funny moments. It was much better than UIM.

UIM would have been about 2.5/5 but most people couldn't help comparing what we saw to what we knew of Iron-Man and the "cognitive dissonance" for lack of a better word significantly reduced the enjoyment of the serie for me. The second part has some serious reconcialiation to do.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

I just thought of a reason why UIM is worse than USM's Deadpool arc.

Iron Man is a much more important character than Deadpool. Therefore, ****ing up Ultimate Iron Man is much worse than ****ing up Ultimate Deadpool.

I know both characters could be fixed, but as it stands now both are ****ed.

 

[Ice]

I know both characters could be fixed, but as it stands now both are ****ed.

Yeah, but like someone else said, Deadpool can easily be fixed and redeemed. UIM...that's gonna need work. LOTS of work.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Yeah, but like someone else said, Deadpool can easily be fixed and redeemed. UIM...that's gonna need work. LOTS of work.

Granted, you can't just undue "your entire body is your brain," but there's enough room left in his mini that he can be turned around and make his backstory worthy of such a cool character.

The problem with Deadpool is that no one's going to want to put the effort in to reinvent his character and make him as awesome as he deserves. If anything, they'll have him just show up and right off his return in two panels of dialog.

 

[Friday]

Yeah, but like someone else said, Deadpool can easily be fixed and redeemed. UIM...that's gonna need work. LOTS of work.

Like dropping the word Ultimate from future editions of the trade and just putting Orson Scott Card's above it?

 

[Ice]

Like dropping the word Ultimate from future editions of the trade and just putting Orson Scott Card's above it?

If that happens...

Well, OSC will pay. Stay tuned to a cartoon (hopefully) to see what happens next.

 

[E]

I just thought of a reason why UIM is worse than USM's Deadpool arc.

Iron Man is a much more important character than Deadpool. Therefore, ****ing up Ultimate Iron Man is much worse than ****ing up Ultimate Deadpool.

No doubt about that. I agree 100%.

But I wasn't getting that deep...as stories, with no regard to the importance of the character in the universe as a whole, Deadpool was worse.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Ok....here's a thought---since several of us want to resurrect the Ultimization Game, why don't we do a special "Retcon Edition"?

The rules remain the same---the only difference is that instead of the writer trying to come up with UIM's origins....you retcon Card's vision into Millar's version. It doesn't have to cover the entire life-span up until Ultimates#1....just until the problem is fixed.

Whaddya say? Who's in?

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Ok....here's a thought---since several of us want to resurrect the Ultimization Game, why don't we do a special "Retcon Edition"?

The rules remain the same---the only difference is that instead of the writer trying to come up with UIM's origins....you retcon Card's vision into Millar's version. It doesn't have to cover the entire life-span up until Ultimates#1....just until the problem is fixed.

Whaddya say? Who's in?

When I have more time, I could totally get into that. Start it.

No doubt about that. I agree 100%.

But I wasn't getting that deep...as stories, with no regard to the importance of the character in the universe as a whole, Deadpool was worse.

See, if were only talking about quality of writing, then that opens the flood gates of every Ultimate Universe arc. What seemed to make Deadpool so terrible was that it was terribly written and it was an arc that people cared about.

 

[Hellsbuttmonkey]

I didn't really have theat much of a problem with Deadpool. I mean, in 616 he is one of my favorite characters, and Ultimate Deadpool just wasn't him, but with a little bit of tweaking we could have an Ultimate Deadpool to be proud of. As it has already been said, correcting the trainwreck of an origin that is Card's (*spits as name is said*) Iron Man will take a lot of work in the next Iron Man mini. Now the real question is who was on more drugs...

Card when he thought of the plot for Ultimate Iron Man,
or
L Ron Hubbard when he came up with the UFO cult he called Scientology?

or....is Card the reincarnation of L Ron Hubbard, and as such has Tom Cruise trapped in his closet.....

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I love just how "ok" some of us (comic book fans) are with things. The most popular idea and most expressed is "with a little tweaking Ultimate Deadpool can be pretty cool."

Why aren't more people generally pissed that these characters are piss poor upon introduction. They should make a great enterance and stay great. Not be ok and hope for the best. It's a writer's job to make these guys special and not just throw away.

 

[Ice]

I love just how "ok" some of us (comic book fans) are with things. The most popular idea and most expressed is "with a little tweaking Ultimate Deadpool can be pretty cool."

Because it's true. Deadpool *can* be redeemed from the pisspoor job Bendis did.

Why aren't more people generally pissed that these characters are piss poor upon introduction. They should make a great enterance and stay great. Not be ok and hope for the best. It's a writer's job to make these guys special and not just throw away.

Well, people may not express it, or not enough, but that doesn't mean anyone is. But you are right.

 

[ProjectX2]

Ok....here's a thought---since several of us want to resurrect the Ultimization Game, why don't we do a special "Retcon Edition"?

The rules remain the same---the only difference is that instead of the writer trying to come up with UIM's origins....you retcon Card's vision into Millar's version. It doesn't have to cover the entire life-span up until Ultimates#1....just until the problem is fixed.

Whaddya say? Who's in?

There was already a thread doing that exact thing.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Why aren't more people generally pissed that these characters are piss poor upon introduction. They should make a great enterance and stay great. Not be ok and hope for the best. It's a writer's job to make these guys special and not just throw away.

You are forgetting that 616 Deadpool was created as a throw-away villain for the New Mutants, made to make fun of DC's Deathstroke...

In the end, the sum total of a character's interactions within a universe vastly outweighs his or her introduction.

I mean, Animal Man sucked before Grant Morrison, The Swamp Thing was a rediculous idea until Moore changed the status quo... not to mention that it has always taken a special touch to make Aquaman sell properly... It's all in the strength of the story, and the problems with Ultimate Iron Man ARE NOT in its story.

Had UIM been about an original character, i wouldn't have anywhere near as much of a problem with it. It's not a bad story out of context... It's a terrible story in context...

Ultimate Deadpool was just a poorly written arc, with bad character use and everything.