Ultimate Deadpool
Well-Known Member
It isn't gonna end until Ultimate Deadpool snaps and kills everyone.
How long do you think the ultimate universe will last?
- Thread starter a fan
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ultimatedjf
Well-Known Member
Ultimate Deadpool said:
Anyone that calls his comrade the Jewish/Yiddish term for Grandma is NOT going to be capable of such a thing.
:wink:
David Blue
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As long as it sells, the Ultimate Universe can keep going. There's no need to end it.
I don't think of the Ultimate Universe as a gimmick that depends on the shock of "ultimizations". If it was, then yes it couldn't last long.
I think of the Ultimate Universe as a place where standards are kept reasonably high over a long period, where characters and relationships can progress logically, and where really terrible, stupid things that screw a character up to the point of being unpalatable don't happen to many important characters. In other words, this is a concept with a lot of staying power. It can last as long as the superhero comics industry does.
I see this from the point of view of a Fantastic Four fan.
The Fantastic Four were in a sense the "first family of superhero comics". That made them unique. But the 616 Fantastic Four went through not only years but decades of replacements, divorce, a screwed up kid, and general family failure. To jolt sales in the short term, over and over, every gimmick was tried except the one gimmick that did so much to make the Fantastic Four a success in the first place: the story of a love that was, through all difficulties and tantrums and temporary "splits," successful.
That can't really be put right. If marriage is supposed to mean "never leave me," then a run guided by marketing considerations that point to the "family" being "together" for a while is not the same thing as having heroes who have been loyal to each other through thick and thin. An issue or a series of issues where the person drawing wages for the invulnerable super-strong position in the Fantastic Four is Ben Grimm, actually the first employee to hold that position (a cute touch for nostalgia fans) is not the same thing as having Ben Grimm be family and irreplaceable.
The Ultimate Fantastic Four have dozens of issues out now, and Reed and Sue aren't officially engaged (in the issues I've read), but they are a solid item, and nobody's betraying or abandoning anybody in the core of the group. (Doctor Mary Storm does not conflict with that - rather, she throws it into brilliant contrast. Bravo Mark Millar!)
When will these Ultimate-version-only gimmicks - true love, loyalty, family, friendship - cease to be valid?
Never.
Never.
Never.
Never.
True love rules, real split-ups drool. And until love, loyalty, family and friendship hit their final use-by dates, the Ultimate Fantastic Four will be the real Fantastic Four. (Leaving aside the original Lee-Kirby 102 issue run, and the movies, which are also solid on the things I think matter most.)
I don't think of the Ultimate Universe as a gimmick that depends on the shock of "ultimizations". If it was, then yes it couldn't last long.
I think of the Ultimate Universe as a place where standards are kept reasonably high over a long period, where characters and relationships can progress logically, and where really terrible, stupid things that screw a character up to the point of being unpalatable don't happen to many important characters. In other words, this is a concept with a lot of staying power. It can last as long as the superhero comics industry does.
I see this from the point of view of a Fantastic Four fan.
The Fantastic Four were in a sense the "first family of superhero comics". That made them unique. But the 616 Fantastic Four went through not only years but decades of replacements, divorce, a screwed up kid, and general family failure. To jolt sales in the short term, over and over, every gimmick was tried except the one gimmick that did so much to make the Fantastic Four a success in the first place: the story of a love that was, through all difficulties and tantrums and temporary "splits," successful.
That can't really be put right. If marriage is supposed to mean "never leave me," then a run guided by marketing considerations that point to the "family" being "together" for a while is not the same thing as having heroes who have been loyal to each other through thick and thin. An issue or a series of issues where the person drawing wages for the invulnerable super-strong position in the Fantastic Four is Ben Grimm, actually the first employee to hold that position (a cute touch for nostalgia fans) is not the same thing as having Ben Grimm be family and irreplaceable.
The Ultimate Fantastic Four have dozens of issues out now, and Reed and Sue aren't officially engaged (in the issues I've read), but they are a solid item, and nobody's betraying or abandoning anybody in the core of the group. (Doctor Mary Storm does not conflict with that - rather, she throws it into brilliant contrast. Bravo Mark Millar!)
When will these Ultimate-version-only gimmicks - true love, loyalty, family, friendship - cease to be valid?
Never.
Never.
Never.
Never.
True love rules, real split-ups drool. And until love, loyalty, family and friendship hit their final use-by dates, the Ultimate Fantastic Four will be the real Fantastic Four. (Leaving aside the original Lee-Kirby 102 issue run, and the movies, which are also solid on the things I think matter most.)
onenewquestion
Active Member
My hopes - never! When the heros reborn was done, I loved the way Jim Lee's Wildstorm company portrayed Iron Man, Hulk, and the Fantastic Four. It was also the time (Other than Chuck Dixon's Doom series) that Doctor Doom was in awesome form! The Atomic Knights of the Round Table. Something Marvel should bring back! I just ponder if Ultimate Wonderman will be cool!
Bass
Nexus of the World
David Blue said:
Totally agree. The Ultimate universe isn't a gimmick.
The writers of it act as though it is.
Without someone 'cool' to Ultimise (and even then), they tell bland, crappy stories exactly like the ones we've seen in 616 countless times already.
The Ultimate Universe will end if it stops turning a profit, and certianly not because of a creative decision to "end" it, like the ABC line of comics.
David Blue said:
Here, here, I agree. These are timeless concepts.
However, I just don't think the Ultimate Universe deals with these themes on any profound or meaningful level. I disagree that the Ultimate Universe embodies powerful storytelling on true love and friendship. There is, to my mind, no Ultimate ongoing title that's any good at all.
The best of them, The Ultimates 2, has revealed itself to be a shallow shadow of its greater glory. And the other three are dull, unisightful meanderings retreading the paths other writers have taken over the past 40 years.
But none of that changes anything.
So long as it turns a profit, the Ultimate Universe, for good or bad, is with us.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Great. 'Cuz all ongoings are awesometastic.Bass said:
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Who me?E said:
I only said that to mess with Bass.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Oh, Sorry.E said:
And I'm with you on that one.
sax_russell_the_green
Well-Known Member
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- 46
I give the Ultimate Universe another 2-3 years. By then, the current duo on Spider-man will be long gone, and Marvel will have rotated a couple of other teams in and out. The Ultimates will continue to degrade with each "season" as different artists and writers give their take on it. The reason the Ultimate Universe has been so enjoyable to me is the consistency of it. Not just continuity errors (or lack of) in the story, but consistency of the artists and writers. That's why I'm immediately distrustful and unsatisfied when I hear that Ultimates 3 is going to be done by a different creative team. That's why I worry that Bendis and Bagley want to try to break the 102 issue record. Why would they want to stay after that?
It's clear that the most successful runs of any comic series are the ones that are handled by a single person or team for a long period of time. When that team leaves, someone else comes in to put their own spin on things and it doesn't work, because by then the fans have come to expect a certain type of story or art from the previous team. So the series falters, and Marvel has to bring in crossovers, or guest stars, or other creative teams to try and bring sales back to where they were. Just look at the inconsitency of stories in the Ultimate FF, and parts of Ultimate X-men, where there already has been a change over of writers and artists multiple times now. Just wait until the creators of this universe have had their fill and decide to move on to other projects and the rotating system of management takes over. 3 years, tops, and the Ultimate Universe will implode on itself and be cancelled.
Which brings me to another point: stuff like this makes me wish that there would be a finality to the universe. That the creators could say: "okay, there's going to be a final point to all this. There's going to be a beginning, middle, and end. May take 3 years, may take 5. Whatever the length of time, we're here to tell a story and we'll stay to tell it. After it's over, it's done. No other writers or artists to come along and drag it out for the money. No need to see great stories and characters be stretched into stupid stories and horrible art. The End, and everyone will be satisfied." This is partly what I was hoping for when I found out that the Ultimates was being done as "seasons", but seeing that they'll just keep doing "seasons" til the cows come home (or until the money stops coming home) instead of until the story is completely told, I doubt I'm going to be buying anything Ultimates after I read 3 and realize how right to be disappointed I was.
It's clear that the most successful runs of any comic series are the ones that are handled by a single person or team for a long period of time. When that team leaves, someone else comes in to put their own spin on things and it doesn't work, because by then the fans have come to expect a certain type of story or art from the previous team. So the series falters, and Marvel has to bring in crossovers, or guest stars, or other creative teams to try and bring sales back to where they were. Just look at the inconsitency of stories in the Ultimate FF, and parts of Ultimate X-men, where there already has been a change over of writers and artists multiple times now. Just wait until the creators of this universe have had their fill and decide to move on to other projects and the rotating system of management takes over. 3 years, tops, and the Ultimate Universe will implode on itself and be cancelled.
Which brings me to another point: stuff like this makes me wish that there would be a finality to the universe. That the creators could say: "okay, there's going to be a final point to all this. There's going to be a beginning, middle, and end. May take 3 years, may take 5. Whatever the length of time, we're here to tell a story and we'll stay to tell it. After it's over, it's done. No other writers or artists to come along and drag it out for the money. No need to see great stories and characters be stretched into stupid stories and horrible art. The End, and everyone will be satisfied." This is partly what I was hoping for when I found out that the Ultimates was being done as "seasons", but seeing that they'll just keep doing "seasons" til the cows come home (or until the money stops coming home) instead of until the story is completely told, I doubt I'm going to be buying anything Ultimates after I read 3 and realize how right to be disappointed I was.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Actually, it was said it was 104. Also, the reason they're doing USM isn't to break the record. They want to yes, but it's not the sole reason why they're both doing USM.sax_russell_the_green said:
sax_russell_the_green
Well-Known Member
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K, 104. So what else would be keeping them around after they break the record? Or what else is keeping them around now then?
ProjectX2
Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
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Ice said:
Heh, Ice, your ignorance is hilarious.
jeremiahvedder
Well-Known Member
Joe Q has said time and time again that there won't be any 616/Ultimate Crossovers.
As for the thread's title... The Ultimate Universe will last as long as they dance with the girl that brought them: That is, (A) keep costs down by limiting monthlies; (B) Keep things realistic, modern and grounded; and (C) being able to keep the trades in print. The Ultimates are all about accessibility, and as long as they remain that way, they'll keep making money and we'll continue to see the line live. They need to keep their events small and remember not to blow their load by oversaturating the market.
And I wanted to say... Bringing Madueriera in is a smart move. The guy's got over a full decade of experience since his initial Uncanny run, and he has improved an already signature style. And, hey, let's face it... The political **** going on in the ULTIMATES can only remain interesting for awhile, too much and it'll turn people off. Mark my words.
As for the thread's title... The Ultimate Universe will last as long as they dance with the girl that brought them: That is, (A) keep costs down by limiting monthlies; (B) Keep things realistic, modern and grounded; and (C) being able to keep the trades in print. The Ultimates are all about accessibility, and as long as they remain that way, they'll keep making money and we'll continue to see the line live. They need to keep their events small and remember not to blow their load by oversaturating the market.
And I wanted to say... Bringing Madueriera in is a smart move. The guy's got over a full decade of experience since his initial Uncanny run, and he has improved an already signature style. And, hey, let's face it... The political **** going on in the ULTIMATES can only remain interesting for awhile, too much and it'll turn people off. Mark my words.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Bendis loves writing a million books a month. He has said himself he enjoys writing USM and will keep doing so as much as he can. It still sells in good numbers, and Marvel isn't going to take them out of it. One reason fan buy certain books is because of the creatuve team on it.sax_russell_the_green said:
Thanks. Yours is, too.ProjectX2 said:
Ice said:
But that's the problem - that's what he says. Of course he's going to say that - it would be bogue of him to say, "I only want to stay on the book so I can break the record." But if you look at the quality of the book - and yes, this is a personal preference thing but it's pretty widely held - it isn't the same as it was in the first 25-30 issues. There's a pretty abrupt shift from developing characters that the writer obviously has a great affinity for to "villain of the week", cheap reimaginings.
Ice said:
But the numbers aren't what they used to be. This was consistantly a top 6-7 book when I started reading it, and now it's barely cracking the top 15. Yes, some people follow creative teams, but a lot more follow good stories, and the sales drop of this book reflects that.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
I know the numbers arent what they used to be, but as long as its within the Top 20/30, Marvel is going to let it ride.E said:
Ice said:
I'm not arguing that - Marvel (especially Marvel under JQ) is not going to touch anything with Bendis's name attached. Overall he's a huge draw; they aren't going to risk pissing him off.
I was just illustrating the drop in quality by comparing it to the drop in sales.
