Hawkeye's Revenge (Ults. 2 spoilers) [sensitive matter]

[E]

But Hawkeye raping Widow would be just gratuitous and would have no storytelling merits as well as being out of character.

I totally agree.

 

[iceman]

i'd like to see Widow locked up, and them letting Hawkeye in to see her.

then her trying to to be like "i never meant for it to happen like this" yadda yadda yadda

then when he sees through it, and say Fury sent him.

and she'll be like "with what? you're not armed"

then he takes out a deck of playing cards and is like "oh no?"

then the series ends.

but rapage... no.

 

[cmdrjanjalani]

I totally agree.

Rapists usually do their thing because they want to show that they have power over the victim. The pleasure only comes second. They enjoy the fact that their victim is helpless from their actions more than the victim's appearance or the sensation of the act.

In Hawkeye's case, all he wants is revenge. He won't do it. All he sees when he'll meet Widow is the lifeless bodies of his family lying in their own blood and the sheer treachery alone. What he wants is her dead, or if he manages to curb his emotions probably see her rotting in prison for life.

then her trying to to be like "i never meant for it to happen like this" yadda yadda yadda

That won't work, aside from the cliche, she at least pumped one bullet through Hawkeye's son's head. She most probably also gunned down Laura, since it's the same way she took down Jarvis. That would barely make sense. "I'm sorry I murdered your entire family by surprise?"

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Her pitch is more likely to be :

"You've done things that are just as worse over the course of your career. What did you expect? That your family was immune to the kind of violence you have repeatedly inflicted on others? This is what we do, Clint. It's what we are."

 

[fnord]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

Spoiler

Midnighter raped the Cap analog who was leading "The Americans", as revenge for assaulting Apollo, if I remember correctly. I'd need to read it again.

Spoiler

Midnighter did it because said Cap analogue "Raped" Apollo. This was fully implied by the panels, and by ellis intimating it in interviews, but never said outrightly

That being said...Hawkeye needs to go medieval.



Cna i jsut say, who here sees this run ending wtih Shiled being told to go F*** itself and the Ultimates doign the independant Ultimate Avengers thing? Just in time for the DVD release.

 

[iceman]

That won't work, aside from the cliche, she at least pumped one bullet through Hawkeye's son's head. She most probably also gunned down Laura, since it's the same way she took down Jarvis. That would barely make sense. "I'm sorry I murdered your entire family by surprise?"

she's the traitor. i don't know if that means she shot their family. might've been darth red. he looked like cap after all.

 

[SeAcoW]

As far as i know Widow has implants and will be able to kick Hawkeyes *** 1000 of times. If anyone will get raped, it will be him.

 

[iceman]

nah, hawkeye can shoot anything, and he'll be bloodlusted.

besides, she's a woman. what the hell is she gonna do, knit him a sweater? not give him sex that night?

 

[leather_w0lf]

Y'all are missing one point which should end this stooopid and offensive thread:

I'm surprised no one has brought this up - being so high on the revelation that Widow was/is the traitor everyone has missed something so obvious.

IT'S POSSIBLE WIDOW DIDN'T KILL HAWKEYE'S FAMILY (I didn't see Iceman's post until I had written this - kudos to him for being observant. There isn't a tie-in between the Ultimate Avengers DVD and the comic. It is called Ultimate Avengers to make it more recognizable to the general public. It re-tells the first 6 issues of The Ultimates Vol. 1.)!!!

I'm pretty sure Skull OR Ultron did. Or something else is up. Read on:

Widow doesn't look at a bit like Cap and the person that took out Hawkeye's family was obviously a Cap look-a-like - why else would he have been taken down by Fury and the Reserves? Why else would all of the drama of issue 8 be centered on Cap? Why would Cap be "revelaed" as the traitor?

My only other thought is this: Fury knew it was Widow and took Cap out as a ruse (another reason to use the Reserves to take out Cap!). Then I have to tell you - some of the things that Fury says to Cap in issue 8 are now suspect - the rant about being Hawkeye's child's Godfather, the comments that alluded to Tony Stark being a traitor - it almost seems as if he's talking to Natasha - doesn't it? I bet Cap was taken out to be protected and is waiting in the wings.

I wouldn't be surprised if HE came back with the Defenders in tow - all with new super suits that mimick the powers they wish they had. The Defenders are more important to this storyline than many of us want them to be. Good writers like Millar don't just create characters with that much depth and just pi$$ them away.

Leather

 

[Friday]

I'm surprised no one has brought this up - being so high on the revelation that Widow was/is the traitor everyone has missed something so obvious.

IT'S POSSIBLE WIDOW DIDN'T KILL HAWKEYE'S FAMILY (I didn't see Iceman's post until I had written this - kudos to him for being observant.

Am I on everyones ignore list? I said the same damn thing in my post on page 1!

And now for something completly diffrent.

Whoops - I didn't read your whole post and then you edited it. I didn't mean joking about people getting raped, I meant taking a joke too far. Didn't mean to imply you thought it was funny that people get raped...

Gotta go with good old George Carlin on this one. Porky Pig raping Petunia Pig. Admit it, the idea made you smile in a "oh god thats so wrong" kind of way.

 

[E]

IT'S POSSIBLE WIDOW DIDN'T KILL HAWKEYE'S FAMILY

I had said that in another thread. I don't see anything that implies she was even there, much less the one who executed anyone.

 

[cmdrjanjalani]

I had said that in another thread. I don't see anything that implies she was even there, much less the one who executed anyone.

Yeah it's still possible. Millar hasn't still explained how Captain America was caught on video during the Barton massacre.

 

[Friday]

* head explodes *

 

[leather_w0lf]

Who's on brain detail for Baxter?

Someone call Mr. Wolf.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I had said that in another thread. I don't see anything that implies she was even there, much less the one who executed anyone.

So I guess Hank wasn't talking to Black Widow either? Whoever was talking to Hank killed Hawkeye's family. There's one traitor, it was Widow.

 

[E]

Whoever was talking to Hank killed Hawkeye's family.

Proof?

There's one traitor, it was Widow.

Pym is also apparently a traitor too.

And obviously the "traitor" is part of a larger army.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Proof?

Why would they show the same cuff's on a trenchcoat, if it wasn't the same person?

Pym is also apparently a traitor too.

And obviously the "traitor" is part of a larger army.

Pym wasn't on the team. I said there's one traitor referring to the finalization that it was Widow and there's no twist that can somehow redeem her.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

As as far as I'm concerned, the cameras were tampered with, so there's no need for a Cap look alike to have been on the scene. Even without super science you can do incredible fakes. Now if you have S.H.I.E.L.D. level technology... You surely can do a better fake on what must have been digital images than with a disguise.

The killer in #7 shows a gloved hand which isn't part Steve's normal attire so obviously it wasn't a full blown disguise anyway. And which is identical to that of the traitor talking to Pym in #6.

And the killer says : "Big Surprise?" which implies familiarity.

I say it is Natascha. Using a gun is her schtick anyway. Then she or an associate hacked the second set of camera's recorded images (Not harder than lifting and leaking Banner's file) after having neutralized the first set of camera. Classic trick. Make your opponent work harder to find the clue and he's less likely to question it.

 

[MoS]

If the recordings have been seriously tampered with, it can also explain why Nick Fury didn't revoke or reset all of the codes Hawkeye knew - say the altered recordings show Hawkeye being shot in the head or several times point-blank in the chest. He isn't going to survive that, no matter what medical miracle gets invoked. Hence, no reason to change the codes.

Could that much alteration be done (that quickly) in THIS universe? I don't think so. In the Ultimate Universe? Ummm, sure. Why not.

 

[compound]

Gotta go with good old George Carlin on this one. Porky Pig raping Petunia Pig. Admit it, the idea made you smile in a "oh god thats so wrong" kind of way.

I didn't have the stomach to finish The Unfunnies -- which regreattably lived up to its title -- but somehow I wouldn't be surprised if that ended up being an inadvertant spoiler.

THAT is precisely how disturbingly casual Millar can be about implied rape.