Fantastic Four Reboot

[ourchair]

The contributor who submitted this rumor is faintly ridiculous.

I mean really, Galactus vs. the Avengers? Is that the ONLY reason to get the Fantastic Four rights back? To bloat your currently being developed Avengers movie brand?

Anyway, I really hope they make a super awesome Fantastic Four movie. I just hope they don't make the mistake of taking out the biggest toys in the cabinet (i.e. Doom, Galactus) and putting them in the movie as a crutch for a failure to develop a coherent threat and its resolution.

 

[The Overlord]

The contributor who submitted this rumor is faintly ridiculous.

I mean really, Galactus vs. the Avengers? Is that the ONLY reason to get the Fantastic Four rights back? To bloat your currently being developed Avengers movie brand?

Anyway, I really hope they make a super awesome Fantastic Four movie. I just hope they don't make the mistake of taking out the biggest toys in the cabinet (i.e. Doom, Galactus) and putting them in the movie as a crutch for a failure to develop a coherent threat and its resolution.

The problem is outside of Doom and Galactus, most of the FF villains are not very interesting. Guys like Wizard, Mole Man, Red Ghost and Trapster aren't very compelling, interesting or threatening, those guys would have to be changed a lot to work well on screen, similar to how Sebastian Shaw or Whiplash were changed to work on the Silver Screen.

 

[mike3717]

The problem is outside of Doom and Galactus, most of the FF villains are not very interesting. Guys like Wizard, Mole Man, Red Ghost and Trapster aren't very compelling, interesting or threatening, those guys would have to be changed a lot to work well on screen, similar to how Sebastian Shaw or Whiplash were changed to work on the Silver Screen.

I don't know. I think Mole Man could be cool if done right. Annihilus could also. Personally my preference for a FF reboot would be to have Sub Mariner be the villain. I'd also like to see some Inhumans.

 

[bluebeast]

Inhumans.

 

[The Overlord]

I don't know. I think Mole Man could be cool if done right. Annihilus could also. Personally my preference for a FF reboot would be to have Sub Mariner be the villain. I'd also like to see some Inhumans.

I don't care for Mole Man that much, I find him a rather bland, one dimensional villain, who really is not menacing or compelling. His motive is supremely under developed and there is nothing really interesting about him visually. It seems like his monsters are far more interesting then he is, so he just seems like a character that's just a gimmick and nothing else. I kinda like Ultimate Mole Man, so perhaps there are elements from him they could use in the movie. But mole Man would have to be reworked like Whiplash and Sebastian Shaw were in the movies, to work on the silver screen. He needs a motive more compelling then "whaaa, random hot chicks won't go out with me, so now I'm evil and hate everyone!"

 

[Bass]

I think the Fantastic Four have a better rogues gallery than the Avengers. The FF seems to be more consistently popular than the odd trends that the Avengers face, I think, for that reason.

 

[The Overlord]

I think the Fantastic Four have a better rogues gallery than the Avengers. The FF seems to be more consistently popular than the odd trends that the Avengers face, I think, for that reason.

That's debatable, the FF just have better bigger guns then the Avengers do. I like Doom and Galactus better then Ultron and Kang (even though I like Ultron and Kang just fine.) But we are talking about the second string villains, both the Avengers and the FF are a bit weak on that score. One advantage the Avengers have is they can pull villains from captain America, Thor and Iron Man's rogues galleries, that's why Loki is a featured villain in an Avengers.

I mean how many really great stories feature Mole Man, Wizard, Red Ghost, Puppet Master, Trapster etc. Heck can anyone describe anything interesting about their personalities? That being said, I do like Annihilus, but only because of annihilation, rather then his appearances in FF. I kinda like the Mad Thinker, but more for his appearances in New Warriors then anything in FF, though I do think his gimmick is interesting. Regardless most of the FF villains who aren't Doom or Galactus would need a massive retool before being ready for the Silver Screen. Heck I think both the Avengers and FF's rogues gallery need a major revamp in the comics.

 

[Bass]

I would agree, but if you only compare villains of equal quality you can only result in showing that they have equal quality. I think if you take the entirity of their rogues galleries, there would be more villains that would be interesting on the FF's side, such as Galactus, Doom, Annihilus, Thanos, the Inhumans, the Kree, and, the Skrulls. While, I think THE AVENGERS would probably only have Kang, Ultron, Red Skull, Loki, and the Masters of Evil. And if you look at the best they have to offer, I think the FF really comes out on top. That's why every Marvel title keeps stealing their villains.

 

[The Overlord]

I would agree, but if you only compare villains of equal quality you can only result in showing that they have equal quality. I think if you take the entirity of their rogues galleries, there would be more villains that would be interesting on the FF's side, such as Galactus, Doom, Annihilus, Thanos, the Inhumans, the Kree, and, the Skrulls. While, I think THE AVENGERS would probably only have Kang, Ultron, Red Skull, Loki, and the Masters of Evil. And if you look at the best they have to offer, I think the FF really comes out on top. That's why every Marvel title keeps stealing their villains.

Thanos isn't really an FF villain, he first appeared in Iron Man #55, he has mainly been involved in cosmic stories or giant crossovers where almost every Marvel hero opposes him, I can't of one single one on one battle he has had with the FF in the 616 universe. You could argue Thanos is a Silver surfer villain, but that' not the same, just as the fact Mephisto has faced off against the Silver Surfer many times doesn't make him an FF villain. Ultimate Thanos is a an UFF villain, but almost no one gives a flying fig about Ultimate Thanos. The real classic Thanos story lines occurred in the 616 universe, like the Infinity Gauntlet.

At this point, even the Skrulls aren't really FF villains, one of their more most classic story lines, the Kree/Skrull war, was an Avengers tale and secret Invasion was a Marvel wide event. Heck the fact the Skrulls are appearing as villains in the upcoming Avengers movie shows how unattached to the FF they have become.

A really good rogues has a few interesting A-list villains and a bunch of interesting B list villains to take the place. Even when you get past the A-list villains in Batman's or Spider-Man's rogues gallery, there are still many interesting B-list villains that you can tell interesting tales with. Both the Avengers and the FF lack that collection of interesting B-list villains. So when you remove the A-list villains from the FF (Doom and Galactus) the choices for a villain that can carry a movie are rather slim, unless you borrow non FF villains like Thanos. So when ourchair suggested that the next FF movie shouldn't feature any of the FF's big villains, I was merely pointing out that most of the remaining FF villains need a lot of work before they can carry a movie.

The only way guys like Wizard or Mole Man could carry a movie, is if you rewrite to be more interesting and more threatening. I felt movie Sebastian Shaw was more sinister then comic book Shaw and while you didn't like movie Whiplash, I can tell you he is marked improvement over the comic book version, who was a completely forgettable villain.

 

[Bass]

You're absolutely right. I missed Ourchair saying that the FF movie shouldn't use the 'big villains', and in that case, only the Mad Thinker or possibly Diablo strike me as interesting.

 

[The Overlord]

You're absolutely right. I missed Ourchair saying that the FF movie shouldn't use the 'big villains', and in that case, only the Mad Thinker or possibly Diablo strike me as interesting.

Thanks, but to be fair I do think ourchair has a point, that after the last two failed FF movie, building up Doom and Galactus as back ground villains to appear later is a good idea, but the problem there is a bit of lack interesting villains to act as place holders while Doom and Galactus wait in the wings.

I like Annihilus, so maybe he could work. I also like Mad Thinker, but he has the same problem as the Riddler, he is very hard to write properly. Most of the rest of the FF's rogues gallery would need a lot work to carry a movie.

 

[Bass]

Or a comic book.

 

[Zombipanda]

What about Mole Man?

Or Namor?

Or Annihilus?

Still, I think a good FF movie can rely more on the strength of its setting and leads than the strength of its villain.

 

[bluebeast]

Eh, the Fantastic Four's more about the adventure than the villains.

I still say Inhumans though.

 

[The Overlord]

Or a comic book.

Lol. That's true, frankly the FF's rogues gallery needs a major revamp, so they don't have to overuse Doom all the time. Too many FF villains do nothing recycle stories from the Silver Age, rather then do something new. Almost every Frightful Four story is the same and they have lost any sort of menace long ago. Why not form a Frightful Fourteen instead?

Hickman made Wizard a little interesting with that mental breakdown, but other writers have ignored it and frankly I want to learn more about this breakdown before I can say Wizard has been vastly improved.

Eh, the Fantastic Four's more about the adventure than the villains.

I still say Inhumans though.

Sure, but you still need a compelling villain to move the plot along. In the movies Sebastian Shaw and Obadiah Stane aren't the main focus on their movies, but they were interesting enough to keep the plot moving and have a good scene or two.

If they do an Inhumans story, Maximus the Mad would have to be the villain and he is one of the better FF villains. Though I am not sure if Fox has the rights to the Inhumans.

 

[Zombipanda]

Eh, the Fantastic Four's more about the adventure than the villains.

I still say Inhumans though.

Exactly. I'd like to see the Inhumans too.

But it's less about how "interesting" the villains are and more about what sort of adventures and landscapes those villains would facilitate.

 

[The Overlord]

Exactly. I'd like to see the Inhumans too.

But it's less about how "interesting" the villains are and more about what sort of adventures and landscapes those villains would facilitate.

I don't see why an FF movie can't have an interesting environment and an interesting villain. Not mention not all the FF villains inhabit alien worlds, so if the 616 Frightful Four were the villains, they would have carry the plot, because they don't live in an alien environment.

 

[ourchair]

You're absolutely right. I missed Ourchair saying that the FF movie shouldn't use the 'big villains', and in that case, only the Mad Thinker or possibly Diablo strike me as interesting.

Let me emphasize that I have no problems with the FF movies using big villains like Doom and Galactus.

What I actually said in my original statement was that they shouldn't use those villains (or rather, their star power) as crutches for a coherent threat and a meaningful resolution.

That was my fundamental problem with the Tim Story movies. The villains were nothing but props to be defeated. Doom's story is basically, "I hate you Reed but you must hate coming to me for monies!" and then "MRAOWR I HAVE PAUER!" and then "Pwned by fire hydrant" There's an attempt at characterization here and there, but ultimately the heroes victory over Doom accomplished nothing in their personal growth and character development.

There was just a stilted, "We have to work together! We're a team!" and the film kind of plods along in that direction without any rhyme or reason. They just work together IN THE END, because there's a tin-plated electro-powered business tycoon in the middle of the street and they have to do so because Reed tells them to, and That is How Reed Becomes a True Leader somehow.

Rise of the Silver Surfer is even worse because all they do is convince the Surfer to fly into Galactus. THE END.

Simply put, these were big-name villains who meant nothing, did nothing and served as nothing to the heroes.

 

[The Overlord]

Let me emphasize that I have no problems with the FF movies using big villains like Doom and Galactus.

What I actually said in my original statement was that they shouldn't use those villains (or rather, their star power) as crutches for a coherent threat and a meaningful resolution.

That was my fundamental problem with the Tim Story movies. The villains were nothing but props to be defeated. Doom's story is basically, "I hate you Reed but you must hate coming to me for monies!" and then "MRAOWR I HAVE PAUER!" and then "Pwned by fire hydrant" There's an attempt at characterization here and there, but ultimately the heroes victory over Doom accomplished nothing in their personal growth and character development.

There was just a stilted, "We have to work together! We're a team!" and the film kind of plods along in that direction without any rhyme or reason. They just work together IN THE END, because there's a tin-plated electro-powered business tycoon in the middle of the street and they have to do so because Reed tells them to, and That is How Reed Becomes a True Leader somehow.

Rise of the Silver Surfer is even worse because all they do is convince the Surfer to fly into Galactus. THE END.

Simply put, these were big-name villains who meant nothing, did nothing and served as nothing to the heroes.

That's a good point, we never seen a proper version of Doom or Galactus, that's why I think if there was a proper version of these characters in these new movies, they would feel different from those previous FF films. On the other hand, the general audience did see a (bad) version of these characters already and first impressions are important, so there is something to be said for having these two villains in the back ground, building up their menace before they before as the main villain for a movie. Using one of the FF's lesser rogues would require some clever writing so they can carry a movie, but then again an FF reboot would require a lot of clever writing to work. Batman and Robin was so bad it almost destroyed the Batman movie franchise forever, but there were some well regarded Batman movies before Batman and Robin, the FF never had a movie that could be considered good.

 

[E]

I'm not sure I understand what it is about the Inhumans that anyone would want to see in a movie...