Fantastic Four #554-569 (Millar/Hitch) discussion (Spoilers!)

[Bass]

Re: Fantastic Four #554-570 (Millar/Hitch) discussion (Spoilers!)

So, I finally finished this issue.

Millar writes every story the same way now. The new villain shows up, and is impossibly bad ***. Then he is promptly defeated with great deus ex machina ease by the heroes.

The robot Cap arrives, beats the crap out of all the Avengers and X-Men. Reed then reaches into his pocket, pulls out the Anti-Galactus suit and wins.

The New Defenders kill Galactus and beat up Doom and the Fantastic Four with ease. Then they decide they didn't want to fight after all.

The Marquis of Death (cool name) and his apprentice show up and are very imposing and bad *** and can snuff out suns. He kills Doctor Doom twenty times. Then, out of nowhere, his past self who has uber-world-bending powers whom we've never heard of before, shows up and they have a top trumps fight and then the F4 use a top trump generator machine to win. It's goddam Yu-Gi-Oh. Oh, and then Doom shows up to say, "I was always more bad ***, btw."

The Master of Doom, despite its stupid beginning, really became interesting in the middle. Doom was disposed of in a grand fashion, and the Marquis of Death was interesting in how what he was after was seeing Reed's spirit break. This, in and of itself, is a particularly exciting idea. Unfortunately, Millar decided he couldn't be bothered to write that story, and just as it got started, he had the 'army of Fantastic Four' which was stupid as hell considering how the previous world the Marquis had a balls-out fight apparently, and then had some guy we don't know solve the day, then everyone just hit him harder than before and omg Doom isn't dead. What a stupid wasteful ending.

That said, I did like Thing's reason for not getting married. It was considerably smarter and well thought out than the Marquis nonsense. (My minion, Doom, is crap. Behold! I will dress up as him, call myself Doom and I dunno what I'm doing.)

You know what I think I would've loved? The Marquis of Death comes to Earth to offer Doom a position as his apprentice. Doom, disgusted at his lack of respect, turns him down. The Marquis dispenses with him, a proceeds to go after Reed's hope. And the Omega Box delusion? That's what he does to Reed. He twists and turns Reed's life so that Reed destroys his own life. Then Reed kills himself and the comic becomes "The Marquis' Happy Hour". Okay, that last bit maybe not. Very disappointing ending, and sadly, typical of Millar's work right now.

I guess I'm annoyed mainly because Millar has been 'slacking' off of late. I miss the Mark Millar who wrote kinetic exuberance THE AUTHORITY, the innocent brilliance of SUPERMAN ADVENTURES, the unapologetic imagination of ULTIMATE X-MEN, the precise cohesion of SUPERMAN: RED SON, and the sophisticated glamour of THE ULTIMATES' first three volumes.

I want that Mark Millar back.

 

[AnTwan]

Re: Fantastic Four #554-570 (Millar/Hitch) discussion (Spoilers!)

So, I finally finished this issue.

Millar writes every story the same way now. The new villain shows up, and is impossibly bad ***. Then he is promptly defeated with great deus ex machina ease by the heroes.

The robot Cap arrives, beats the crap out of all the Avengers and X-Men. Reed then reaches into his pocket, pulls out the Anti-Galactus suit and wins.

The New Defenders kill Galactus and beat up Doom and the Fantastic Four with ease. Then they decide they didn't want to fight after all.

The Marquis of Death (cool name) and his apprentice show up and are very imposing and bad *** and can snuff out suns. He kills Doctor Doom twenty times. Then, out of nowhere, his past self who has uber-world-bending powers whom we've never heard of before, shows up and they have a top trumps fight and then the F4 use a top trump generator machine to win. It's goddam Yu-Gi-Oh. Oh, and then Doom shows up to say, "I was always more bad ***, btw."

The Master of Doom, despite its stupid beginning, really became interesting in the middle. Doom was disposed of in a grand fashion, and the Marquis of Death was interesting in how what he was after was seeing Reed's spirit break. This, in and of itself, is a particularly exciting idea. Unfortunately, Millar decided he couldn't be bothered to write that story, and just as it got started, he had the 'army of Fantastic Four' which was stupid as hell considering how the previous world the Marquis had a balls-out fight apparently, and then had some guy we don't know solve the day, then everyone just hit him harder than before and omg Doom isn't dead. What a stupid wasteful ending.

That said, I did like Thing's reason for not getting married. It was considerably smarter and well thought out than the Marquis nonsense. (My minion, Doom, is crap. Behold! I will dress up as him, call myself Doom and I dunno what I'm doing.)

You know what I think I would've loved? The Marquis of Death comes to Earth to offer Doom a position as his apprentice. Doom, disgusted at his lack of respect, turns him down. The Marquis dispenses with him, a proceeds to go after Reed's hope. And the Omega Box delusion? That's what he does to Reed. He twists and turns Reed's life so that Reed destroys his own life. Then Reed kills himself and the comic becomes "The Marquis' Happy Hour". Okay, that last bit maybe not. Very disappointing ending, and sadly, typical of Millar's work right now.

I guess I'm annoyed mainly because Millar has been 'slacking' off of late. I miss the Mark Millar who wrote kinetic exuberance THE AUTHORITY, the innocent brilliance of SUPERMAN ADVENTURES, the unapologetic imagination of ULTIMATE X-MEN, the precise cohesion of SUPERMAN: RED SON, and the sophisticated glamour of THE ULTIMATES' first three volumes.

I want that Mark Millar back.

Two things. Clyde Wyncham isn't exactly someone we have never seen before. When this whole mess started Millar was saying how his summer work (FF, Old Man Logan, and 1985) would all tie in together. Obviously OML and FF tied in with the defenders. Wyncham is from 1985. It is actually a slightly interesting mini with amazing art. I would suggest looking it to it.
Also, I didn't quite get the same interpretation out of the whole last arc as you have seemed to. I really like that the final stroke of the arc was that, even though it took him centuries to do so, Doom really did get the last laugh on his master. He really pulled it off. It adds another layer to Doom, Reed is beneath him now. The last time he and Reed faced off, when Reed won, he told Reed that his master was coming. This was the guy that even Doom was scared of; but not anymore. Doom was even able to overcome that. In doom's mind, now there is literally nothing that can stop him. He's triumphed over the only thing that scared him. I think it puts him on a tier above Reed and puts their characters in different places as long as someone picks up on that character shift and the change in Doom isn't just flat out ignored (For instance, he should rock the new costume. Why would he go back to that ****ty thing he wore centuries ago?)

 

[Iceshadow]

Re: Fantastic Four #554-570 (Millar/Hitch) discussion (Spoilers!)

You guy's should continue reading for Hickman's run. The first arc is called "Solve Everything" and is awesome so far. Also, you should read Dark Reign: Fantastic Four since that is also by Hickman and kinda sorta sets up his run.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Fantastic Four #554-570 (Millar/Hitch) discussion (Spoilers!)

I think 1985 and Old Man Logan are definitely the best of Millar's recent work. It's a shame his FF kind of fell apart by the end; I enjoyed it but it was a disappointment.

Immonen drawing the final issue proved how much he rules though. In that one week, he had FF, NA and that USM special thing out at the same time.

 

[Bass]

Re: Fantastic Four #554-570 (Millar/Hitch) discussion (Spoilers!)

Two things. Clyde Wyncham isn't exactly someone we have never seen before. When this whole mess started Millar was saying how his summer work (FF, Old Man Logan, and 1985) would all tie in together. Obviously OML and FF tied in with the defenders. Wyncham is from 1985. It is actually a slightly interesting mini with amazing art. I would suggest looking it to it.

Two things: I like Tommy Lee Edwards' art a lot, and didn't read 1985 because I couldn't be bothered. Maybe I will.

The other thing is this: At no point anywhere did the comic or Millar explain that this was even related to 1985 in the comic book. Yes, he may have said it in interviews over a year ago, but what the **** happened to the little asterisk in a speech bubble that read "*Wyncham was imprisoned by Reed in 1985! - Ed"

Why wasn't there ANY MENTION OF IT ANYWHERE IN HIS ENTIRE RUN?

This is what ****s me off about comics. If these are linked, how about giving us some damn clue in the issues themselves? Why not set it up IN THE ISSUE as part of the STORY.

It's bull****. It's a cheap deus ex machina (because all F4 stories devolve into Reed making a wish engine that saves the day) that is 'set up' by virtue of a marketing campaign. To hell with it.

Also, I didn't quite get the same interpretation out of the whole last arc as you have seemed to. I really like that the final stroke of the arc was that, even though it took him centuries to do so, Doom really did get the last laugh on his master. He really pulled it off. It adds another layer to Doom, Reed is beneath him now. The last time he and Reed faced off, when Reed won, he told Reed that his master was coming. This was the guy that even Doom was scared of; but not anymore. Doom was even able to overcome that. In doom's mind, now there is literally nothing that can stop him. He's triumphed over the only thing that scared him. I think it puts him on a tier above Reed and puts their characters in different places as long as someone picks up on that character shift and the change in Doom isn't just flat out ignored (For instance, he should rock the new costume. Why would he go back to that ****ty thing he wore centuries ago?)

Except, none of this is what happened. The characters act as if this happened, but they didn't. What, precisely, did Doom do? He died, came back, and then waited a billion years so that Reed Richards could defeat his master for him. That's all he did.

Secondly, Doom was never scared of his master, nor did he think anything could stop him. This Marquis guy never existed until Millar said he did, and he's a cheap villain because he didn't CHANGE Doom.

For example, what if, instead, the Marquis showed up and offered Doom a position? Doom turns him down, and then the Marquis so thoroughly schools him, Doom becomes his terrified apprentice. But, instead, that happens "off-panel" because he couldn't come up with any ways for the Marquis to credibly depose Doom, only top trump him to death with time travel.

And none of this is new. Doom has always been schooled by devil-gods - Mephisto has been his teacher and master for so long, and Doom was never intimidated by him. The Marquis of Death, in no way, earns the shift in Doom's character. It's just cheap, and what's more, not in-keeping with Doom's character.

I understand that, as a writer, you invent new things and new elements, but, you have to keep some consistency of the characters. If you going to create a radically new character dimension (such as Doom being humble) you have to earn it. You can't just 'magic' it in and then say, "Aha! Now he's back to normal!" It's false and its cheap, and it seems, extremely popular because that's all Millar's been doing for the last four years and people are loving it.

See, Millar starts his stories with this crazy, outrageous elements and then is incapable of progressing past them. The opening of the Marquis storyline is the Marquis, wandering dimension after dimension and destroying Earth, returns to Earth to punish his pupil, Dr Doom. He does so by obliterating Latveria and sending Doom into the prehistoric past to be eaten by dinosaurs.

Then the Marquis goes to Reed, and says, "Kill your son or I kill everyone." Reed says no. "Kill Ben or I kill everyone." Reed says no, not even considering any of them at all. "Kill me or I kill everyone." Reed dismisses it out of hand. The Marquis then says, "I'm going to enjoy destroying your hope and making you regret this decision." Then he sends an army of parallel Fantastic Fours to attack them. Then Ben frees old Wnycham, and the Marquis fights his younger self of a billion years ago who has rudimentary powers, whom he defeats but loses some of his energy, so Reed can channel the F4 army's powers into one big blast, defeating him.

This is turgid nonsense. Where is there anything approaching the idea that the Marquis will break Reed's spirit? Why, when he can send the F4 into the past to watch Doom get eaten, is the Marquis unable to just go back and not let Ben free Wyncham?

He did not think his story through. He sat down, wrote one scene after another and never stopping and looking at the story as a sequence of events. If he did, he would've noticed that it was a shameless hype-fest with no pay-off at all.

I want Mark Millar back. Seriously. His SUPERMAN ADVENTURES are among some of the best suphero comics I have ever read. This is why I get so wound up... so heartbroken. It's MARK MILLAR. He did THE ULTIMATES. Where is that consideration to story that he used to have? I so want Mark Millar back.

 

[Iceshadow]

Re: Fantastic Four #554-570 (Millar/Hitch) discussion (Spoilers!)

He's gone Hollywood.