Hibiki
Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
omg....genius. That is probably one of the best ideas to do in the UU ever. I cannot better describe how good that idea is.
Wait: SUPERIGilNOENWOPIGBESUFFLEMOTABULOUS!
Don't Read Ultimates 3
- Thread starter moonmaster
- Start date
omg....genius. That is probably one of the best ideas to do in the UU ever. I cannot better describe how good that idea is.
Wait: SUPERIGilNOENWOPIGBESUFFLEMOTABULOUS!
Bass
Nexus of the World
And now it, and many other cool stories, can never be done. Because Black Panther was just ultimized on the back of a napkin. :|
Black Panther should've been an entire arc. He should be a MAJOR thing.
He's not.
Why isn't Mahr-Vehl part of the Ultimates? How cool would that be? To have Stark ask him for help?
Mahr-Vehl is a big part of 616 and he's dead. Here, they have a chance to make him a really big part of the UU and not kill him off.
He should have his own ongoing exploring dead alien worlds - but then, that wouldn't fit into 61U.
:|
Black Panther should've been an entire arc. He should be a MAJOR thing.
He's not.
Why isn't Mahr-Vehl part of the Ultimates? How cool would that be? To have Stark ask him for help?
Mahr-Vehl is a big part of 616 and he's dead. Here, they have a chance to make him a really big part of the UU and not kill him off.
He should have his own ongoing exploring dead alien worlds - but then, that wouldn't fit into 61U.
:|
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
... WHY AREN'T YOU THE EDITOR-IN-CHIEF OF MARVEL YET !!!
Bass
Nexus of the World
:lol:
Foolsfolly
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Seriously though, Bass. Go forth and conquer Marvel.
moonmaster
Without him, all of you would be lost souls roamin
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Here's what I would have liked to see:
The first issue begins with Thor returning to Earth after having spent 3 months in Asgard, clearing up things with Loki and his father. He left thinking that the Ultimates would be continuing independently, but when he comes back, Tony and Jan are sitting around a big empty HQ in New York. Quicksilver is on board, having shown how devoted he and his sister are to the Ultimates when the Liberators invaded, but Wanda's been gone ever since Pietro caught her getting hot and heavy with an Ultron. Hank is still locked up in the Triskellion working for the government (More on that in a moment.), and Bruce is currently being assigned a new identity (Since he's legally dead, and SHIELD certainly isn't going to let the public know he's still alive.) and a new treatment for his condition. Hawkeye is AWOL, having quit SHIELD when he realized that getting his bloody revenge didn't make him feel any better or bring his family back. Cap hasn't left SHIELD yet. He's slightly scared by the notion of moving from his familiar military life to the humanitarian-based efforts that Stark wants to get involved with. Fury has been demoted, much to his anger and embarrassment. A stern, Dick Cheney-esque general has been put in his place, and has decided to shift the government's funds out of superhumans, and into robots. This is where Hank comes in. The Ultrons are being developed for mass military and domestic applications and they haven't made much effort to replace the Ultimates. The first arc would deal with catching up with what's been going on, Stark trying to jumpstart the team, and seeing the effect that the past few months have had on the world. At the end of the first arc, Cap resigns from SHIELD and joins Tony.
The next arc skips ahead several months. A Katrina level hurricane hits the East coast and several factions spring into action in order to flex their muscles for the first time: The newly corporate Ultimates, SHIELD's Ultron army, and a souped-up, corporate sponsored (It's the new trend.) Defenders, led by none other than Wanda. The big fifth issue battle would happen when the Ultrons go all evil and start attacking and killing civilians. The Ultimates manage to stop them, but in the next issue, SHIELD comes out with intelligence that the virus that infected the Ultrons originated from The Ultimates.
The big third arc would deal with The Ultimates trying to prove their innocence and a battle with the new SHIELD and the Ultron army.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
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Foolsfolly
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What I would do with Ultimates 3... off the top of my head...
The Ultimates are corporate sponsored and one line keeps ringing in my head. It's the line from Ghostbusters about how they had leave the school and go into the corporate sector. The Ultimates being corporate sponsored makes them a tad too similar to Ultimate X-Men for my liking. So to follow up on the Ghostbusters line and in an effort to make the Ultimates different from other line properties....the Ultimates becoming a company.
Hear me out.
Stark Industries is the Marvel equivalent to IBM/Microsoft and even with that combined money, the Ultimates would eat through funding like no one's business; collateral damage and lawsuits alone would cause Stark to loss millions. I also see lawsuits with SHIELD and the US government because these people are taking government sponsored tech and stealing it. Contracts were broken, and soldiers went AWOL. There will be a lot of trouble for these people due to their actions, and I doubt Fury and SHIELD will forgive easily.
So Tony Stark's a businessman, and sponsoring a super team with these troubles is bad business for Stark Industries, so the Ultimates need help elsewhere, but sponsors are hard to come by unless they have ulterior motives, so Tony does what he does best. He tries to make the Ultimates into something marketable.
The toy rights are still owned by the government, the uniforms might very well be owned by the government, and the movie and game deals would be in dispute. So all the Ultimates have that's marketable is themselves.
Tony suggests making the Ultimates a security team, maybe he uses the term "heroes for hire." The team doesn't like this (Offhand, Thor and Wasp wouldn't dig the idea at all. Clint, Wanda, and Pietro would go for it) and there's some infighting, but being independent means they need to offer services to get paid, and super sciences and soldiers who have been celebrities for years now and have saved the world three times...don't want to be garbage men to pay the bills.
Different groups and people sponsor the Ultimates, like Doom, the Worthington family, Hellfire Club, if OsCorp or Hammer Industries is left use one of them, but none of it is enough to afford the jets, weapons, upkeep, food, and keeping the Ultimates at their current pay rate. Tony gives in time and time again to pay the differences but he has a responsibility to Stark Industries and such actions are not taken lightly by its stock owners.
Salvation comes from a company called Williams Innovations, a weapons company that primarily sells weapons overseas since Stark supplies for SHIELD and most other countries. Williams Innovations will throw money at the Ultimates and return them to a world police like power with the ability to deploy anywhere there's a crisis under one condition: it's owner (Simon Williams) gets to become a member. They end up agreeing and thus we have Ultimate Wonder Man.
The Ultimates are properly funded again and do their Ultimate style fighting albeit with Wonder Man, a superhero junkie living out his dream. Wonder Man is decked out in tech which gives the illusion that he has powers. He's a geek for these heroes and he has a strong dislike for Tony Stark due to years of out selling his company, and more importantly, for being a hero before he got to be one.
Wonder Man runs the team into the ground, as you'd imagine he would. His decadent spending and reckless behavior would prove to be his company's undoing and the Ultimates would fall with it. They would blame Wonder Man and he'd blame them for these turns of events.
Stark is forced by his board to pull all funding or risk losing his position in his own company.
The Ultimates sell out to stay together and become mercenaries for an issue or so. Quicksilver patrols the boarder for illegals for some racist Texan militia group. Scarlett Witch is paid under the table for changing the probabilities to make a politician's popularity go up and win a reelection. Captain America's taken out of the team due to a lawsuit about the government owning the super soldier serum and the name "Captain America" he's left as being some rap star's body guard. Thor fund raises and preaches for the importance of having an independent Ultimates. Tony and Clint are hired to put down a small revolt in Latveria. Janet quits the team (she's wanted to in Vol 1, she left Steve in Vol 2...I don't see her staying around when things get tough.)
Infighting happens, as it always does with these people, and the Ultimates quit. Quicksilver and Wanda head for Europe. Steve gets a factory job. Tony goes back to Stark Industries. Thor goes back to his little church of the Odinson. Clint returns to the service, black ops. Wasp does commercials. The Ultimates are finally defeated by a lack of funds.
Simon Williams has been busy. His idols were mean to him and they ruined his life. He still owns his gear and rather than foolishly march into New York City looking for a fight, he sells his super gear to the highest bidder, moves out of the country, and gets his lifestyle back.
Terrorists with the Wonder Man tech do what they do. SHIELD tries to slap them down and even unleashes Mahr' Vehl, Vision, and Falcon. Avengers Assemble..yah de yah dee yah dah. Fight's over.
The Ultimates reunionite (surprise!) and agree to government sponsorship in exchange for more freedom than they had originally (think of the UXM after Millar's run).
I really think the Ultimates should be government sponsored. I liked it that way and if I wrote it they would revert to that way. There's still Ultimate stories to be told but without the government sponsored military angle...they're just basic team stories ala Justice League or Avengers.
I also think you can't top Ultimates 2's villains in sheer scale, there's no way. We still get a big battle somewhere (not New York or DC. Might as well mix it up) but we should focus on characters more for 12 issues and the difficulties of running a team and being in a team.
I also like having Wonder Man build up to be a stereotypical villain and then have him sell his tech. I always wondered why villains didn't just sell their goodies and forget about vengeance (who really seeks that anyway in real life?).
I also think getting the Ultimates back with SHIELD opens up the characters available for play. They have Vision, Falcon, Mahr Vehl, Betty, Fury, Hank, the money and power to hide Hulk, She-Hulk, Carol Danvers, and every SHIELD personnel you could want. Having them leave SHIELD cut the supporting cast down to nothing but Happy since Jarvis died.
Is my idea perfect? No. Just threw it together right here. I also thought about making the Ultimates into an allegory for the real life Blackwater Worldwide but it would take more thought to figure out what to do with them once you've made them basically amoral mercs who work for governments after all the events of Ultimates 2.
The Ultimates are corporate sponsored and one line keeps ringing in my head. It's the line from Ghostbusters about how they had leave the school and go into the corporate sector. The Ultimates being corporate sponsored makes them a tad too similar to Ultimate X-Men for my liking. So to follow up on the Ghostbusters line and in an effort to make the Ultimates different from other line properties....the Ultimates becoming a company.
Hear me out.
Stark Industries is the Marvel equivalent to IBM/Microsoft and even with that combined money, the Ultimates would eat through funding like no one's business; collateral damage and lawsuits alone would cause Stark to loss millions. I also see lawsuits with SHIELD and the US government because these people are taking government sponsored tech and stealing it. Contracts were broken, and soldiers went AWOL. There will be a lot of trouble for these people due to their actions, and I doubt Fury and SHIELD will forgive easily.
So Tony Stark's a businessman, and sponsoring a super team with these troubles is bad business for Stark Industries, so the Ultimates need help elsewhere, but sponsors are hard to come by unless they have ulterior motives, so Tony does what he does best. He tries to make the Ultimates into something marketable.
The toy rights are still owned by the government, the uniforms might very well be owned by the government, and the movie and game deals would be in dispute. So all the Ultimates have that's marketable is themselves.
Tony suggests making the Ultimates a security team, maybe he uses the term "heroes for hire." The team doesn't like this (Offhand, Thor and Wasp wouldn't dig the idea at all. Clint, Wanda, and Pietro would go for it) and there's some infighting, but being independent means they need to offer services to get paid, and super sciences and soldiers who have been celebrities for years now and have saved the world three times...don't want to be garbage men to pay the bills.
Different groups and people sponsor the Ultimates, like Doom, the Worthington family, Hellfire Club, if OsCorp or Hammer Industries is left use one of them, but none of it is enough to afford the jets, weapons, upkeep, food, and keeping the Ultimates at their current pay rate. Tony gives in time and time again to pay the differences but he has a responsibility to Stark Industries and such actions are not taken lightly by its stock owners.
Salvation comes from a company called Williams Innovations, a weapons company that primarily sells weapons overseas since Stark supplies for SHIELD and most other countries. Williams Innovations will throw money at the Ultimates and return them to a world police like power with the ability to deploy anywhere there's a crisis under one condition: it's owner (Simon Williams) gets to become a member. They end up agreeing and thus we have Ultimate Wonder Man.
The Ultimates are properly funded again and do their Ultimate style fighting albeit with Wonder Man, a superhero junkie living out his dream. Wonder Man is decked out in tech which gives the illusion that he has powers. He's a geek for these heroes and he has a strong dislike for Tony Stark due to years of out selling his company, and more importantly, for being a hero before he got to be one.
Wonder Man runs the team into the ground, as you'd imagine he would. His decadent spending and reckless behavior would prove to be his company's undoing and the Ultimates would fall with it. They would blame Wonder Man and he'd blame them for these turns of events.
Stark is forced by his board to pull all funding or risk losing his position in his own company.
The Ultimates sell out to stay together and become mercenaries for an issue or so. Quicksilver patrols the boarder for illegals for some racist Texan militia group. Scarlett Witch is paid under the table for changing the probabilities to make a politician's popularity go up and win a reelection. Captain America's taken out of the team due to a lawsuit about the government owning the super soldier serum and the name "Captain America" he's left as being some rap star's body guard. Thor fund raises and preaches for the importance of having an independent Ultimates. Tony and Clint are hired to put down a small revolt in Latveria. Janet quits the team (she's wanted to in Vol 1, she left Steve in Vol 2...I don't see her staying around when things get tough.)
Infighting happens, as it always does with these people, and the Ultimates quit. Quicksilver and Wanda head for Europe. Steve gets a factory job. Tony goes back to Stark Industries. Thor goes back to his little church of the Odinson. Clint returns to the service, black ops. Wasp does commercials. The Ultimates are finally defeated by a lack of funds.
Simon Williams has been busy. His idols were mean to him and they ruined his life. He still owns his gear and rather than foolishly march into New York City looking for a fight, he sells his super gear to the highest bidder, moves out of the country, and gets his lifestyle back.
Terrorists with the Wonder Man tech do what they do. SHIELD tries to slap them down and even unleashes Mahr' Vehl, Vision, and Falcon. Avengers Assemble..yah de yah dee yah dah. Fight's over.
The Ultimates reunionite (surprise!) and agree to government sponsorship in exchange for more freedom than they had originally (think of the UXM after Millar's run).
I really think the Ultimates should be government sponsored. I liked it that way and if I wrote it they would revert to that way. There's still Ultimate stories to be told but without the government sponsored military angle...they're just basic team stories ala Justice League or Avengers.
I also think you can't top Ultimates 2's villains in sheer scale, there's no way. We still get a big battle somewhere (not New York or DC. Might as well mix it up) but we should focus on characters more for 12 issues and the difficulties of running a team and being in a team.
I also like having Wonder Man build up to be a stereotypical villain and then have him sell his tech. I always wondered why villains didn't just sell their goodies and forget about vengeance (who really seeks that anyway in real life?).
I also think getting the Ultimates back with SHIELD opens up the characters available for play. They have Vision, Falcon, Mahr Vehl, Betty, Fury, Hank, the money and power to hide Hulk, She-Hulk, Carol Danvers, and every SHIELD personnel you could want. Having them leave SHIELD cut the supporting cast down to nothing but Happy since Jarvis died.
Is my idea perfect? No. Just threw it together right here. I also thought about making the Ultimates into an allegory for the real life Blackwater Worldwide but it would take more thought to figure out what to do with them once you've made them basically amoral mercs who work for governments after all the events of Ultimates 2.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Verily.
Not bad at all.
Some of that is good, some of that isn't - HOWEVER - it is, by far, much, much better than ULTIMATES 3.
One thing - Cap and Hawkeye can't just quit SHIELD, and then join back up. It's a covert military organisation - not a McDonalds.
That said - I like Ultimate Wonder Man. I don't like him being useless as it's redundant: Tony does that already - but I like Wonder Man financing the Ultimates in exchange for super powers. That's brilliant.
moonmaster
Without him, all of you would be lost souls roamin
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Thinking about it, another thing that Loeb has totally ignored:
Humanity spends thousands of years fighting and debating about whose religion is true and real, but no one religion can ever "win" because no religion can ever produce definitive evidence that there god is the true god.
Then one day the Norse gods just come strolling in on a rainbow bridge to save America.
How could the confirmation of the existence of Asgard and the Norse gods not be the BIGGEST ****ING THING IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD THAT THROWS EVERY RELIGION INTO COMPLETE UPHEAVAL?
Remember, this isn't 616 or the DCU, where wacky stuff like this happens all the time. And yet Loeb doesn't even mention it.
Humanity spends thousands of years fighting and debating about whose religion is true and real, but no one religion can ever "win" because no religion can ever produce definitive evidence that there god is the true god.
Then one day the Norse gods just come strolling in on a rainbow bridge to save America.
How could the confirmation of the existence of Asgard and the Norse gods not be the BIGGEST ****ING THING IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD THAT THROWS EVERY RELIGION INTO COMPLETE UPHEAVAL?
Remember, this isn't 616 or the DCU, where wacky stuff like this happens all the time. And yet Loeb doesn't even mention it.
Ultimate Quicksilver
Well-Known Member
This I could actually understand.
In a world with mutants and big gray dudes that eat people, what is a rainbow bridge with a bunch of hairy man? This event could have thousands of explanations.
A very powerful mutant with the ability of causing hallucinations has joined Magneto's cause and attacked the USA or something like that.
If people don't want to believe they most certainly won't believe it.
Of course this don't absolve Loeb for the others heinous acts commited in Ultimates 3.
Langsta
Well-Known Member
For Ultimates 3, I would've had Cap, Iron Man, Wasp, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye and Thor as the team (like Ultimates 2), with Tony as the Ultimates' financial backer (like Ultimates 3), but there would be new members, established 616 characters who haven't been explored yet in the UU (Black Panther would not be a member of the team, he would just be part of the big Wakanda story arc that Bass described).
It wouldn't take place 5 billion years after Ultimates 2. I'd introduce characters like Mockingbird (Hawkeye's been through enough) and Ant-Man. Maybe the Ultimates give Hank Pym one more chance to do good. He brings Vision and Ultron onto the team. Pym plans on taking over the Ultimates yet again. Vision creates havoc among the team as he seduces Scarlet Witch. Quicksilver, angry, beats the crap out of Vision and gets kicked off the team.
Meanwhile, Tony funds an archaelogical dig in Egypt and something something something that awakens Kang the Conqueror or something. I dunno.
It wouldn't take place 5 billion years after Ultimates 2. I'd introduce characters like Mockingbird (Hawkeye's been through enough) and Ant-Man. Maybe the Ultimates give Hank Pym one more chance to do good. He brings Vision and Ultron onto the team. Pym plans on taking over the Ultimates yet again. Vision creates havoc among the team as he seduces Scarlet Witch. Quicksilver, angry, beats the crap out of Vision and gets kicked off the team.
Meanwhile, Tony funds an archaelogical dig in Egypt and something something something that awakens Kang the Conqueror or something. I dunno.
cmdrjanjalani
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In 616, Asgardians are regarded as an alien race regardless of their god status. They could go with that. I still will not deny though that there should be a massive revival of old Norse religions after GTA.
Are you going off of Earth X? Because I'm not sure that's true outside of Earth X.
Lynx
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing.
cmdrjanjalani
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Sorry, haven't read that yet. I'm getting these stuff from the 90's Marvel Universe profiles and trading cards I had.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Warren Ellis wrote in his Ragnarok storyline that the Asgardians were aliens.
Lynx
Well-Known Member
Huh.
I thought that was one of the big things that came out of Earth X. I'm assuming Ellis' story arc was after Earth X?
Bass
Nexus of the World
It came before - quite a while before, I think. It may have been around the time 2099 was around.
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Lynx
Well-Known Member
Oh wow, really? Now I feel as if Earth X has lost some of its luster.
Bass
Nexus of the World
If I recall, all Ellis' arc did was have the reporter character (I forget his name) say that Asgardians are aliens with technology so advanced that it looks like magic - and the Asgardians may now believe it's magic themselves.
Nothing however, to do with the Celestials or anything like that. Just a very generic Arthur C Clarke type of thing.
That said, it's possible Krueger and Ross didn't even know Ellis wrote that. It was very, very minor. But the idea of "Asgardians are aliens" is not something that originated soley from EARTH X.
Nothing however, to do with the Celestials or anything like that. Just a very generic Arthur C Clarke type of thing.
That said, it's possible Krueger and Ross didn't even know Ellis wrote that. It was very, very minor. But the idea of "Asgardians are aliens" is not something that originated soley from EARTH X.
