(Defunct thread)

Pro Bot said:
Pretty irrelevant discussion, but...

We never really got an explanation of the Jerome clone from Gotham S2. Now that Jeremiah became the Joker, sorta leaves you wondering what happened to this fella.

Well, in any case, Jerome, Jerome (Clone) and Jeremiah is a total of three, and I'm sure you're all aware of the three Jokers retcon and comic book.


Jeremiah Valeska - The Criminal
Jerome Valeska - The Clown
Jerome Valeska (Clone) - The Comedian

Just a thought. Coincidently, the Clown version of the character dies in the comic.

Still want to see a Gotham S6 comic book, but like Gotham Central where it focuses on the GCPD in a world with Batman. We got a Smallville sequel, we got a Batman 89 sequel, we got a Superman 78 sequel, so why can't we get a Gotham comic book?
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Or, hot take, Gotham is Arrowverse canon.

My connections/continuity corrections based on vague info:
*No Man's Land inadvertently destroyed many records of Gotham criminals; giving many of them more mystery to their origins and a "clean slate".
*Jerome clone became Jack Napier, Jeremiah Valeska is dead by late-2002/early-2003.
*Pamela "Ivy" Pepper (maiden name via mum is "Isley"; the surname "Pepper" came from the Mario Pepper asshole her mother married) changed her name from Ivy Pepper to Pamela Isley. The whole thing about her getting powers at Gotham University was horse hockey and she used Marc LeGrand as her scapegoat to cover up her past.
*Renee Montoya is late-50s and despite earning a job as a police detective, she still had to study to become a police officer (DIFFERENT requirements) in the 2000s.
*Lee Thompkins dies in 2002 (killed?). Jim Gordon quits as commissioner briefly, his old boss Loeb takes over (via the "Commissioner Loeb" line in the season 1 finale of Batwoman), but Jimbo changes his mind and gets his job back after Loeb dies. He marries Barbara and in 2003 JJ Gordon is born. JJ leaving body parts in Barbara's loft and getting admitted makes Jim Gordon divorce Barbara and quit as commissioner for good; replaced by Forbes.
*The Mario Falcone in Batwoman 3x12 is the son of Sofia Falcone, named after her brother whom she really cared about in Gotham.
*Mouse aka John Cartwright is a clone of Jane Cartwright due to her brother August finding about his sister's death and having someone like Hugo Strange(?) clone her into his 'son'. (Why else would August shelter Mouse from the world like he did? The show never answered that, but that's my reasoning.)
*Batwoman's Magpie is the adopted sister of Reagan (Tommy Elliot's bartender and Kate's ex) since her mother (who the daughter inherited the OCD shiny obsession from) was killed by Penguin in 1991.
*Arrow's Cyrus Gold is Sonny Gilzean, Athena of the Thanatos Guild is Gotham's Nyssa al Ghul, there was a copycat Executioner in 2019, Pyg survived getting shot in the head because of metal plates.

Convoluted? You know it, but most things in the Arrowverse get that convoluted if not more.
 
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selfishmisery said:
*Jerome clone became Jack Napier, Jeremiah Valeska is dead by late-2002/early-2003.
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Screenshot_20220408-121719_YouTube.jpg
Jack_Napier.png
Well, it's said Batman killed the Joker but others think he's still in Arkham. Instead of Jeremiah being dead, have both of them live. One of them gets captured and is currently imprisoned in Arkham. The other was killed by Batman who then left Gotham behind (similar to Titans).
 
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Also, Nora never died. She got some big cracks in her, but Hugo Strange probably 'fixed' her at some point between 1991 and the 2000s.
 
955689d7bc9fc7abbb1e76bb1089ec5e.jpg
GothamVerse GCPD logo

FP34_LUWQAE0xq_.jpeg
Gotham Knights GCPD logo

They aren't perfectly the same, but they're much different than most GCPD logos I've looked at. It's just a similar logo currently. Maybe they just took inspiration from Gotham or created a logo that happens to be similar. Either way, cool detail.
 
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Pro Bot said:
While the DC, Gotham and Pennyworth wikis are slow to catch on (and I'm fighting for the DC wiki to accept it), the actual wikipedia treats Pennyworth as a prequel to Gotham. I don't know how long they have, but I'm happy they do.
en.wikipedia.org

Pennyworth (TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Yes, if the Lucius Fox in Pennyworth is Lucius Fox Sr.

The Lucius Fox Jr. is the Gotham's Lucius, father of Batwoman's Luke Fox.
 
A 'different' Wayne Tower seen in various skyline shots in Batwoman
1649633091600.png

The Wayne Tower in the Gotham finale
1649633146859.png

Similar shape, but obviously updated company logo between 2002 and 2018(?)

Guess when Bruce left and Wayne's company went bankrupt in 2015 (said in show) they had to move to a cheaper building and the old tower was abandoned.
 
I know these are reaching headcanons, but I like it better than there being an Earth-Gotham/Pennyworth.
It's good world building for the Arrowverse if they were to make them part of Earth-Prime's history.
 
selfishmisery said:
Yes, if the Lucius Fox in Pennyworth is Lucius Fox Sr.
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I think when they meet in Gotham, they already knew each other. Alfred says "don't I know you?", for example. Rewatching the scene, I think it's an acceptable retcon given the context. They hadn't seen each other in many many years. They're just a little unfamiliar.

Though, having "Lucius Fox Sr." in Pennyworth is a cool idea.

selfishmisery said:
I know these are reaching headcanons, but I like it better than there being an Earth-Gotham/Pennyworth.
It's good world building for the Arrowverse if they were to make them part of Earth-Prime's history.
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I think there's always room for speculation and head-canon. It's part of the fun, trying to put the pieces together. Everything hinted to in Batwoman has a backstory in Gotham. Victor Zsasz has a very similar characterization and I could easily see them as the same. Renee Montoya, of course. I would love to see Gotham actors reprise their roles elsewhere someday.

I kinda like the GothamVerse as it's own thing too (say Earth-39 as a reference to Batman's first appearance). I do appreciate that both GothamVerse shows set themselves in an alternate history/timeless setting. Gotham City and London both feel like they belong in the same universe.
 
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Pro Bot said:
I think when they meet in Gotham, they already knew each other. Alfred says "don't I know you?", for example. Rewatching the scene, I think it's an acceptable retcon given the context. They hadn't seen each other in many many years. They're just a little unfamiliar.

Though, having "Lucius Fox Sr." in Pennyworth is a cool idea.


I think there's always room for speculation and head-canon. It's part of the fun, trying to put the pieces together. Everything hinted to in Batwoman has a backstory in Gotham. Victor Zsasz has a very similar characterization and I could easily see them as the same. Renee Montoya, of course. I would love to see Gotham actors reprise their roles elsewhere someday.

I kinda like the GothamVerse as it's own thing too (say Earth-39 as a reference to Batman's first appearance). I do appreciate that both GothamVerse shows set themselves in an alternate history/timeless setting. Gotham City and London both feel like they belong in the same universe.
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Another reason why it has to be Lucius Jr, especially if Pennyworth is canon - Lucius Fox (Jr?) was born in 1965 according to his grave stone in Batwoman.

Also, the dude in Pennyworth looks nothing like Chris Chalk.
 
Small correction.

1952
????
Pennyworth #1, "Professional Liar" (pg. 14, 17)
Pennyworth #2, "Warehouse of Dead Monstrosities" (pg. 2-3)
Pennyworth #5, "In the Age of the Ageless" (pg. 6)
Pennyworth #3, "At the Hands of Monsters in a Frozen Prison" (pg. 8, 11)
Pennyworth #4, "No Escape in the Cold" (pg. 1, 17)
Pennyworth #5, "In the Age of the Ageless" (pg. 11)

It's Pennyworth #2 (pg. 2-3), not (pg. 3-4). Additionally, that is a direct continuation of the #1 flashbacks. The #5 flashback probably came not too long afterwards.
 
Pennyworth 2x05 has a newspaper 41 minutes in with the date March 1962. I see you've put the episode in March, but is there any reason why the year isn't taken?

Also, S1 had a male president and S2 had a female president. I guess the Pennyworths could have just used the wrong terminology and the female president was in power during S1 as well, or election years are different in the Gothamverse.
 
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Pro Bot said:
While the DC, Gotham and Pennyworth wikis are slow to catch on (and I'm fighting for the DC wiki to accept it), the actual wikipedia treats Pennyworth as a prequel to Gotham. I don't know how long they have, but I'm happy they do.
en.wikipedia.org

Pennyworth (TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
dc.fandom.com

Alfred Pennyworth (Gotham)

Alfred Pennyworth is the short-tempered, sarcastic, and loyal butler and guardian of Bruce Wayne. A former soldier and spy turned caretaker, he headed Pennyworth Security for a few years before aiding the G.C.P.D. on several occasions, all while training Bruce for his crusade against crime in...
dc.fandom.com dc.fandom.com
They've merged the pages.

Anyway:
Pennyworth #6 iterates that the present day takes place 40 years after the flashbacks. Based on the current timeline, that works out to about 2016.
 
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Pro Bot said:
Pennyworth 2x05 has a newspaper 41 minutes in with the date March 1962. I see you've put the episode in March, but is there any reason why the year isn't taken?

Also, S1 had a male president and S2 had a female president. I guess the Pennyworths could have just used the wrong terminology and the female president was in power during S1 as well, or election years are different in the Gothamverse.
Click to expand...
1962 is when Bruno Heller said Season 1 (mostly) took place in a Epix featurette. Season 3 will end jumping into 1970 according to Jack Bannon's instagram post.

The 1962 in S2 was an error likely based on vague time period info.
 
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