Daredevil series discussion (spoilers)

TheManWithoutFear said:
Too be honest I knew about it from somewhere but never read it in any of my readings. And now I'm looking through the handbook and it doesn't say anything about it. Curious. I'll be back with this information. Until someone else beats me to it. Someone being the other 3 Daredevil readers on the site.
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Probably cuz it happened after the handbook was released...
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Hmmm... That would mean within the last year?
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It's what I'm assuming. I mean, The Pulse only comes out every 2 months. Maybe that can somehow help to figure something out.... :neautral:
 
All right got it. Now I remember reading Visionaries and seeing the scene when Urich's meeting a snitch in a movie theater. Before the man gives away any information a sai comes from the back and rips through his chest like shown what is being done to Urich. Ben is sitting next to the victim when it happens. In an issue I never got a hold of Ben's position is given away when he lights a cigarette and Elektra throws her sai and strikes Ben from the front in the chest. So Bendis probably messed the scenerios up or Ben is real messed up and is just picturing it happen that way because those are his two run-ins with Kingpin (Not directly) as he's now on his way to interview him.

Thanks to www.ManWithoutFear.com for the help
 
Daredevil #76 Discussion "The Murdock Papers" (Spoilers)

YES!

As seen in the preview Urich is on his way to see Kingpin and Daredevil beats the crap out of some thugs. Daredevil is applauded for beating the bad guys with cheers of "I love you" and "You're Awesome".

Urich is with Kingpin in one of the best scenes I've ever read in a comic. Kingpin is teasing Urich the entire time with "making a deal with the feds". He also talks about how people keep attacking the facility he's being held in because of who he is. This is unbelieveable and really shows the strength of The Kingpin. He goes on about the story and his life. Urich asks if he's going to tell the fed's about everything he's done as The Kingpin. Fisk says "No, I didn't say that, I said I'd give him up-- --but only in exchange for what I want." Urich doesn't look up and asks "Him, Who?" Fisk doesn't reply and Urich looks up, his face ghost white.

Next we're in Hell's Kitchen at the offices of Nelson & Murdock. The Pulse's headline reads Who is the most popular hero in the city?" Foggy's going on and on about how the exclusive poll resulted in Daredevil winning. Great characterization of Foggy here. He keeps tellin' Matt they should go out and meet women. They're inturrupted when Milla walks in and the secretary buzzing into Matt saying Urich is on the phone. Matt's distracted by Milla and tells Urich to call back later even though it's important.

Later that night Foggy's at a news stand where he sees The Daily Bugle's headline. A two page splash of a picture of Wilson Fisk and Matt Murdock "Kingpin tells all
The Truth about Murdock
Revealed"
End

Great Start. But why Ben, why?

Am I getting the next one or waiting for trade? I'll probably keep picking this up until the arc is over or at least reading them.

5/5
 
Still haven't read it -- I usually read Matt's copy a week afte rhe buys it (cheap bastich that I am).

But here's my early guess about Urich's motivations -- deep inside, he's a greedy, selfish, opportunistic prick, just like the rest of us. For all his big talk about honesty and truth and integrity dating all the way back to Bendis' initial take on the character in "Wake Up", he's never been anything less than a consummate professional who's managed to keep his personal ethical code in line with his career responsibilities. Until now.

He saw a chance to gain prestige (and, no doubt, profit) without having to lie or to cover up anything, so he took it.

Urich had no obligation to NOT get Fisk's side of the story, and protecting Murdock's trust, in this case, went against Urich's best interests, as a journalist.

After all, it's being presented as just that -- the former Kingpin's side of the story. There's nothing seditius or libellous or particularly scandalous about that; thhe public have already pretty much made up their mind about how they feel towards their Guardian Devil. The word of some bitter fat guy is not going to change that.

If anything, this whole turn of events feels really anti-climactic, with the drama of the situation resting entirely on how events play out, rather than what is actually happening.
 
Here's a good post by a member of www.ManWithoutFear.com about the motivations of Urich...
Forrest said:
First off, why would Urich write an article proving Matt is DD? He's been siting on this story for years without the Kingpin. Plus, Urich's always had a powerful relationship with Matt. Of course, Urich may be playing the Kingpin's pawn because the Kingpin is threatening Urich's wife, etc. However, so soon after Golden Age, this would be an painfully lazy story element and I assume that Bendis hasn't reached that level of lazy with his last DD arc. So, the simple answer is that Urich didn't write an article proving Matt is DD. After all, the article is simply the ~"Truth about Matt Murdock." That "truth" may be "proof" that someone else is DD.

Second, would the federal government really trade Wilson Fisk for Matt Murdock? It doesn't make sense on any level and Fisk would know this. Fisk has something else in mind and he's resourceful enough to not need to be legally released in order to regain freedom.

Third, from what we saw of his meeting with Urich, Kingpin never mentioned DD is Matt. Also, I doubt that Fisk knows that Urich knows DD's identity. It's possible that Fisk is setting up someone else to be DD. One result could be that a normal human set up to be DD would be attacked/killed by DD villians like Hyde, etc. looking for vengence. This person could be someone close to Matt and that could tear him apart in ways that a simple gang-land assasination never would. He'd feel responsible for putting his loved ones in danger by being DD. This might put Matt/DD off his game enough to give Fisk an opportunity to attack Matt.

In any case, I don't want to get into why Fisk would do that. I simply think that there is good reason to think that this newspaper article actually "proves" that Matt is not DD.
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Good issue at best.The arc is gonna get better, but we'd seen the first half and the rest was just stuff that had done before.Nice ending though.Here we go again.......
 
finally got it.... great issue but for some reason I don't see Ben selling out Matt like that but then again he is a reporter and will do anything for a good story.... I also liked how Hell's kitchen cheered for DD when he stopped the crooks this is a great title I will continue to pick it up.
 
All issue discussion threads have been merged into one thread - please use this thread to discuss the series including any new issue discussion.
 
All right!

So this issue didn't progress Matt Murdock's dealing with the trial at all... well actually it kinda did but I'll get to it. This will be easy to summarize because I can cut it up into sections because it dealt with all the chicas. I said chicas !!! :twisted: :twisted:

Agent Del Toro - Like the preview is discussing the situation with the head of the F.B.I. He says he's not a fan of Murdock and is frankly pissed that Daredevil has "interferred" with their job because organizing this stuff cost a lot of money to take down villains like Owl (cited specifically) and Daredevil just got in the way all the time. He says Matt Murdock's arrogant and has been playing around with them long enough. Del Toro gets mad and quits... the head honcho turns around and says you're fired.

Chicago - Two guys are celebrating a big business deal. The elevator opens up and guy 1. goes "What's that? That's supposed to be my private elevator.
Guy 2. starts bleeding in his chest and falls over a sai sticking out of his back. Elektra hands guy 1. a note saying this is a message for you. She looks down and sees the headline about Matt Murdock being outed by The Kingpin. She says. "Is this today's paper?"

Black Widow - Has a talk with the new head of SHIELD (AGENT HILL) Ok, so where's Nick Fury exactly did we ever find out? Anyway she begs Hill to have the Murdock charges dropped and Hill says no for two reasons. 1. Because it's not their jurisdiction and 2. Any favors owed by SHIELD to the Black Widow are out the window with Fury. Hill then says she's a big fan and wishes their first meeting wasn't under these circumstances.

Foggy - Is passed out on his kitchen table with booze out. The press is surrounding the house. Widow wakes him and up and says there's nothing anyone can do for them and Foggy is gonna go to jail too. She begs him to find Matt and get out of the country and if she can't find Matt just to get out of the country anyway. Foggy says Matt will fix this.

Matt is laying in bed with Milla- Milla says she was stupid and jealous of a ghost (Karen) and she misses him and loves him and it's real intimate when Matt stops and says something like "This Can't be happening"

The final splash is Milla ontop of Matt with her head turned away from the window with Matt looking toward the window. Elektra looking in on them.

5/5 Awesome.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Foggy - Is passed out on his kitchen table with booze out. The press is surrounding the house. Widow wakes him and up and says there's nothing anyone can do for them and Foggy is gonna go to jail too. She begs him to find Matt and get out of the country and if she can't find Matt just to get out of the country anyway.
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I SERIOUSLY hope this is NOT the direction Brubaker will be taking the series in. After spending Bendis' entire run asserting his literal domination of the Kitchen, to flake out and desert his post as Kingpin would be absolutely horrible, from a narrative sense.

In any case, I suspect that Matt is almost pathologically terrirorial about the neighborhood -- he'd sooner die than move anywhere else.

Still, it MIGHT be an interesting change to status quo to make him, say, relocate to Japan for a year... maybe put on some armor... kick a little Hand heinie... NOT!!!

I'm kinda annoyed that Widow even suggested relocating. But then again, nomadism is practically second nature to her. That's why she and Matt are such an interesting pair.
 
When i started reading The Murdoch Papers (as great as it is sofar) I thought Bendis was writing himself (and Brubaker lol) into a corner - I mean the odds are stacked so hard against Matt it's unbelieveble...

Then I read issue 2 of the story and we have Widow, Del Toro, Milla (tho not sure what she or Foggy can do for him) and freakin' Elektra going to bat for him!! It's crazy fun and and great culmination (kinda like Gang Wars over on Ultimate Spidey). I have noooooo idea where Bendis is going on this and I'm not sure if I do as wanna be surprised hehehehh. I'll miss ole baldy when he goes tho looking forward to Brubaker and Lark (whom I'm positive I guessed correctly to take over DD moooooooooooooooooonths ago lol - me and every other sane fan of course :D )
 
Jackie Estacado said:
When i started reading The Murdoch Papers (as great as it is sofar) I thought Bendis was writing himself (and Brubaker lol) into a corner - I mean the odds are stacked so hard against Matt it's unbelieveble...

Then I read issue 2 of the story and we have Widow, Del Toro, Milla (tho not sure what she or Foggy can do for him) and freakin' Elektra going to bat for him!! It's crazy fun and and great culmination (kinda like Gang Wars over on Ultimate Spidey). I have noooooo idea where Bendis is going on this and I'm not sure if I do as wanna be surprised hehehehh. I'll miss ole baldy when he goes tho looking forward to Brubaker and Lark (whom I'm positive I guessed correctly to take over DD moooooooooooooooooonths ago lol - me and every other sane fan of course :D )
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Good thoughts. You're right he has written himself into a corner and there's no chance but to pull off some kind of twist to get him out. But no one seems to know where it's going. What's more interesting about this issue is the introduction of all the girls. Widow's trying to use politics to get them out of it, Del Toro tried to manipulate the justice system, Milla's just there for moral support.... I just can't wait to see how the head assasin is gonna handle anything. She could end up killing Fisk before he gives out any infromation... crazy....

Anyway the next cover has Owl and Bullseye so I'm sweatin' bullets in anticipation for this.

Glad someone else enjoys it. :)
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Widow's trying to use politics to get them out of it, Del Toro tried to manipulate the justice system, Milla's just there for moral support
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I like the way DD's ladies are using every possible instituion to help Matt out.

Natasha --> Military
Del Toro --> Courts, Law, Judiciary
Elektra --> Organized Crime

And so forth...

But with that in mind, Milla represents two very crucial instituions -- the Government (she's a member of the City Housing Board, right?), and perhaps more crucially, the Ordinary Citizenry -- the people of Hell's Kitchen whose lives have been touched by DD in various ways (as seen in "Decalogue"). You can never under-estimate this factor, or reduce her role to just "moral support". The larger reading public are most likely ready to see Matt get publically flogged, but for the residents of his beloved neighborhood, I'm willing to bet they'd rally behind him, if the situation called for it.

Interestingly, there's still one woman in Matt's life who has yet to resurface in the current arc: Sister Maggie. (And we all know what institution she represents.)


TheManWithoutFear said:
Anyway the next cover has Owl and Bullseye so I'm sweatin' bullets in anticipation for this.
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Holy crap! Didn't know about THAT. Part of me is thinking, "Whoa, nelly! That's more characters than Matt -- or the reader, or Bendis -- can handle." But then I remember "Hardcore" and how well it brought together loose ends, so I'm cautiously optimistic about this.

I just hope that the end of Bendis' DD run will NOT tie up with New Avengers in any way. Sure, by all means, let a DD character (perhaps Matt himself) end up becoming Ronin. But let's not have the circumstances leading up to that depicted in the solo book. Not only will it be difficult to link to the ongoing stories, it's also grossly unfair to NA fans who aren't particularly interested in DD.
 
compound said:
I like the way DD's ladies are using every possible instituion to help Matt out.

Natasha --> Military
Del Toro --> Courts, Law, Judiciary
Elektra --> Organized Crime

And so forth...

But with that in mind, Milla represents two very crucial instituions -- the Government (she's a member of the City Housing Board, right?), and perhaps more crucially, the Ordinary Citizenry -- the people of Hell's Kitchen whose lives have been touched by DD in various ways (as seen in "Decalogue"). You can never under-estimate this factor, or reduce her role to just "moral support". The larger reading public are most likely ready to see Matt get publically flogged, but for the residents of his beloved neighborhood, I'm willing to bet they'd rally behind him, if the situation called for it.

Interestingly, there's still one woman in Matt's life who has yet to resurface in the current arc: Sister Maggie. (And we all know what institution she represents.)


Holy crap! Didn't know about THAT. Part of me is thinking, "Whoa, nelly! That's more characters than Matt -- or the reader, or Bendis -- can handle." But then I remember "Hardcore" and how well it brought together loose ends, so I'm cautiously optimistic about this.

I just hope that the end of Bendis' DD run will NOT tie up with New Avengers in any way. Sure, by all means, let a DD character (perhaps Matt himself) end up becoming Ronin. But let's not have the circumstances leading up to that depicted in the solo book. Not only will it be difficult to link to the ongoing stories, it's also grossly unfair to NA fans who aren't particularly interested in DD.
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You're an amazing man, Compound. Excellent thoughts on the institutions and Maggie almost slipped my mind. I hope we see her before arcs end. I agree about you're New Avenger tie in statements. It should be as seperate as possible which is why I hope DD isn't Ronin.
 
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