Civil War series discussion (spoilers)

How would you rate Civil War?

  • Total voters
    29
Ultimate Quicksilver said:
Nope, an Ambassador. Tony made Osbourne kill him so that the threat of war would make everyone register.
Click to expand...

He also killed a number (I think dozens) of other Atlanteans, but they appeared to be part of a terrorist cell unrelated to Namor. That doesn't make it all right (thought I know some people would disagree with me).

Even if you do think it's okay to kill terrorists, Osborn bombed the **** out of their warehouse and nearly killed Wonder Man, who was only there because SHIELD blackmailed him. The fire could have spread to nearby areas. Osborn could have broken free--I think he did that to attack Urich, though he wasn't able to kill anybody. This entire thing is as insulting to Peter as spitting in his face, and it was all arranged even before the act passed.
 
I don't think that Mark Millar intended for Tony to become a villain. He was just the guy who saw eye to eye with that crazy lady (what was her name) who's kid died at Stamford. However, all of the other writers doing tie-ins made him into some kind of pseudo-Supervillain because they sympathized with Cap. I don't think that there needed to be clearly defined "Good Guy" and "Bad Guy" but whatever.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
I don't see Tony Stark as a bad guy at all. He went to some dangerous extreme measures but he's definitely not the bad guy.
Click to expand...

Yeah.....Tony wasn't the bad guy. And in retrospect...he never was cast as the bad guy. It was all a matter or perception. Everyone just assumes that Cap is the good guy, so naturally there has to be a bad guy for him to fight. That role of protaganist was filled by Tony.

But when you think about it---what did he do to really put him the role of bad guy? Nothing. The decisions he made all thru CW were that of a businessman.



This post has been brought to you by Captain Obvious.
 
Victor Von Doom said:
Yeah.....Tony wasn't the bad guy. And in retrospect...he never was cast as the bad guy. It was all a matter or perception. Everyone just assumes that Cap is the good guy, so naturally there has to be a bad guy for him to fight. That role of protaganist was filled by Tony.

But when you think about it---what did he do to really put him the role of bad guy? Nothing. The decisions he made all thru CW were that of a businessman.



This post has been brought to you by Captain Obvious.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's not like he created a clone of a god and gave it a mind programmed by the proud father of Ultron or had a foreign ambassador assassinated.

That would be wrong.
 
This reminds me of those episodes of Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Enterprise, where the captain would be responsible for the death of millions and would walk away like they did the moral thing.

There's one episode, "Communicator" in which the security chief accidentally loses his communicator on a planet. The problem is that they were on the planet in disguise, as this planet's humanoid civilisation isn't aware of alien life.

So they go back down to take the communicator in order not to affect the planet's indigenous civilisation. But they're captured by the military.

So the captain tells the indigenous military that they're genetically engineered super soldiers bred by their enemies in the neighbouring continent to kill them and then teleport away.

Good guy.
 
TwilightEL said:
He also killed a number (I think dozens) of other Atlanteans, but they appeared to be part of a terrorist cell unrelated to Namor. That doesn't make it all right (thought I know some people would disagree with me).

Even if you do think it's okay to kill terrorists, Osborn bombed the **** out of their warehouse and nearly killed Wonder Man, who was only there because SHIELD blackmailed him. The fire could have spread to nearby areas. Osborn could have broken free--I think he did that to attack Urich, though he wasn't able to kill anybody. This entire thing is as insulting to Peter as spitting in his face, and it was all arranged even before the act passed.
Click to expand...

I really don't think killing terrorist would made him a bad guy, but the ambassador had come in peace. That was a really evil decision, he could have done tons of other things to make people register, but this was the quick way.
 
Ultimate Quicksilver said:
I really don't think killing terrorist would made him a bad guy, but the ambassador had come in peace. That was a really evil decision, he could have done tons of other things to make people register, but this was the quick way.
Click to expand...

And he used Osborn and bombs. Maniacs drugged out of their minds aren't exactly known for handling grenades safely. The entire neighborhood could've gone up in flames.

Plus, if Namor ever found out what happened, or he decided to wage war without knowing, thousands of people would die.
 
Victor Von Doom said:
Yeah.....Tony wasn't the bad guy. And in retrospect...he never was cast as the bad guy. It was all a matter or perception. Everyone just assumes that Cap is the good guy, so naturally there has to be a bad guy for him to fight. That role of protaganist was filled by Tony.

But when you think about it---what did he do to really put him the role of bad guy? Nothing. The decisions he made all thru CW were that of a businessman.



This post has been brought to you by Captain Obvious.
Click to expand...

Didn't do anything wrong? I beg to differ pardoning psychopaths like Bullseye and Green Golbin and letting them loose on the streets is a bad thing, creating a Thor clone that killed someone and still use it after such a death occured is a bad thing. Locking up super heroes and denying them due process is a bad thing. Attempting to murder the Atlantean ambassor is an insanely bad thing.

Frankly I don't buy the this arguement your "Tony is just a business man", so is Lex Luthor, does any one think he is not a villain? Tony has gone from flawed hero to misguided villain at this point, Tony has taken this whole "the means justify the means" thing an insane extreme. How is Tony different from Dr. Doom at this point? Doom bases all his acts on a "the ends justfy the means" philsophy beliving his control over the Earth will improve the life for the human race and anyone who is killed while Doom is trying achieve this goal can be written off as sacerfices for the greater good. Lots super villains like Lex Luthor, Dr. Doom, Magneto, etc are simply individuals who have "ends justify the means" philsophy and take it to an extreme. How is Tony any different from them at this point?
 
i only just got round to issue 7. wow what a disappointment lol. this series was a 4/5 for me but this last issue brought it down to a 3. that is the first and last time i buy the main event and all its tie ins. annihilation was better
 
I liked Civil War more than Anihilation, but the last few issues were still mediocre. Cap getting jumped by the Village people? Clone Thor? The Punisher's crappy appearance?

I know Mark Millar can do better than that.
 
After reading the new Iron Man issue. It made Civil War make a lot more sense.



It hints that all the irrational decisions that Tony makes are due to Extremis.
 
Extremis influencing Tony's actions would make sense - but only if Marvel could get off the ****ing fence and decide whether or not they want him to be a hero or villain. Seriously, decide already. You want him to be a hero, but you're making him the villain of the mini... then you're making him turn out to be the hero... who makes villainous decisions.

They should have made him a villain. Extremis has made him insane.

And then Warren Ellis is behind Civil War and it would make sense.
 
The only problem would be explaining Reed's actions. Extremis has no influence over him and he certainly doesn't appear to have mind-controlled in the slightest. Reed was just as evil as Tony (until Front Line 11 grrr).

Although, actually, McDuffie did a pretty good job with him. McDuffie rules.

Hank Pym, though, I could see going along with everything.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top