Civil War: Front Lines (Spoilers)

[thee great one]

The more that I read of Civil War and it's tieins the better it gets, but some parts still make no sense.

Front Line is awesome and I feel sorry for Speedball.

 

[Void.M]

The more that I read of Civil War and it's tieins the better it gets, but some parts still make no sense.

Front Line is awesome and I feel sorry for Speedball.

wich is weird since im sure Quesada wanted to ruin and or kill Speedball


but yeah i feel bad for him i mean i think he should have some guilt but i really feel bad when i saw what happend with him and his mom

 

[Ice]

wich is weird since im sure Quesada wanted to ruin and or kill Speedball

He jokes around with that. And hey, maybe he does hate him personally or whatever.

But.

He can't tell someone to kill him or anything because of how he feels about the character.

 

[E]

He jokes around with that. And hey, maybe he does hate him personally or whatever.

But.

He can't tell someone to kill him or anything because of how he feels about the character.

He should. Speedball is seriously one of the stupidest characters ever to appear in a Marvel Comic.

I'm glad he's the one getting **** on with all of this.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

I'm feeling more sympathy for Speedball now. I couldn't believe it when his mother said she's never coming back.

Why? He's pushing away everyone who reached out to him with his stubborn refusal to admit he made a mistake. First Jen, now his mother. All in the name of very misplaced pride.

I love this story but Speedball is more of a tragic figure trapped by his pride than a hero.

To quote some more from Leonard Cohen

Like a baby, stillborn,
Like a beast with his horn
I have torn everyone who reached out for me.
But I swear by this song
And by all that I have done wrong
I will make it all up to thee.

-Bird on a wire


It'd be cool if Speedball finally decides to make amends. Perhaps to finally be confronted by the consequence of his mistake instead of being told about them could shock him out of his immature protest that he did nothing wrong.

 

[Ice]

Speedball's doing the right thing by not signing the documents. Part of the what happened is his fault, but it's not entirely his fault and that's what they're trying to put on him. Everything.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Why? He's pushing away everyone who reached out to him with his stubborn refusal to admit he made a mistake. First Jen, now his mother. All in the name of very misplaced pride.

I love this story but Speedball is more of a tragic figure trapped by his pride than a hero.

To quote some more from Leonard Cohen

Like a baby, stillborn,
Like a beast with his horn
I have torn everyone who reached out for me.
But I swear by this song
And by all that I have done wrong
I will make it all up to thee.

-Bird on a wire


It'd be cool if Speedball finally decides to make amends. Perhaps to finally be confronted by the consequence of his mistake instead of being told about them could shock him out of his immature protest that he did nothing wrong.

My heart doesn't go out to him or anything. But to have your own mother and father say they can't stand to be around you is more than he deserves. I'd like to see him go through the kind of telepathic montage that Ms. Marvel went through in New X-Men.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Speedball's doing the right thing by not signing the documents. Part of the what happened is his fault, but it's not entirely his fault and that's what they're trying to put on him. Everything.

Hardly. The deal Jen Walters worked for him left him off the hook with a tap on the wrist, all things considered. And he refused that?

What Speedball did would/will probably be prosecuted as manslaughter by gross negligence or something similar. Won't be hard to prove since the feds have him on tape refusing to wait for a more qualified team to take out Nitro because this was going to be good for their ratings!

Over 600 counts of manslaughter would probably get him tons of 3-5 years sentences which the judge would be in his right to require to be served consecutively. Effectively life sentence without hope for parole.

Again, that deal Jen Walter negotiated was much better than he can ever hope to get by going through the legal process. He can say he didn't personnally kill the 600 victims of Stanford until he is blue in the face. Who cares? That's not what he'll be charged with. What he'll be charged with is manslaughter and he is guilty of that. Take the deal, fool!

 

[MaxwellSmart]

What Speedball is trying to say is that he did what every super hero does. He's saying that this could have happened to the Avengers too. It would have been less probable, but it still could have happened.

He sees it this way. Lets say a cop saw a bad guy rob a liquor store, he decides to persue. The bad guy jumps in a car and they get into a chase. During the chase the bad guy plows through the playground of an elementary school and kills a dozen kids. Is the cop guilty of a dozen counts of involuntary manslaughter because he didn't call in for backup? And who's to say that if he had it still wouldn't have happened?

 

[E.Vi.L.]

He sees it this way. Lets say a cop saw a bad guy rob a liquor store, he decides to persue. The bad guy jumps in a car and they get into a chase. During the chase the bad guy plows through the playground of an elementary school and kills a dozen kids. Is the cop guilty of a dozen counts of involuntary manslaughter because he didn't call in for backup?

If the cop was a civilian instead (like Speedball is), yes. Manslaughter. Since he's a cop trained and legally sanctionned to enforce the law, probably not. But he'll likely have to face disciplinary charge if it turns out he was reckless and didn't follow proper procedure.

For example, most police corp nowadays in this case would require their officer to drop the pursuit if it risks endangering civilians. There are many other ways to catch a robber that won't involve driving at break neck speed in a school zone.

And who's to say that if he had it still wouldn't have happened?

No one, but if he had followed procedure and a tragedy still occured, he's covered. By definition, involuntary manslaughter involve negligence or incompetence.

If Speedball had called for backup, if an assault plan accounting for Nitro's power had been set in place and that the arrest still resulted in hundreds of death, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But they just charged in with no plan, without preparation, and 600 people got killed. Speedball isn't even a scapegoat in this case ; he was the leader and ordered that hare brained assault. Of course he's accountable.

---

BTW : I don't dispute that Speedball sees it as you described. You are right about that. But Speedball is wrong. He is accountable and has to grow up and own up to it. Starting with taking the deal Jen offered, admit to his part in the tragedy, and try to help make it right. A public statement admitting that the kind of amateurish vigilantism he was indulging in is wrong and has to stop wouldn't hurt either.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

The one point I think Speedball has is that society more or less sanctioned super hero vigilantism. It didn't become reckless because Nitro killed 600. It was always dangerous and risky and society/the government never stopped it.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

It didn't become reckless because Nitro killed 600. It was always dangerous and risky and society/the government never stopped it.

That's more an inherent weakness in the Civil War setup than a strenght in Speedball's position.

Marvel's authors have never seriously brought up the consequence of vigilantism until now. If Marvel had been writing stories that are a bit more grounded since the sixties, the death toll caused by vigilantism would have been astronomical and the Civil War would have occured in the early 80s.

But the story is what it is and Speedball is obviously guilty of involuntary manslaughter. The fact that other people got away with it before you isn't a valid defense in a court of law.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Umm, he destroyed Stanford Conn, right?

I say we make him a damn hero for that

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Umm, he destroyed Stanford Conn, right?

I say we make him a damn hero for that

No, Nitro destroyed Stanford. Haven't you been listening to what Speedball's been saying? Over and over and over as if it was a mantra? Bad guy Nitro, Good guy (and bumbling amateur with poor judgement and desperate need of a reality check) Speedball.

 

[Ice]

Stamford, people. Stamford. With an 'm', not an 'n'.

Thank you.

 

[Void.M]

That's more an inherent weakness in the Civil War setup than a strenght in Speedball's position.

Marvel's authors have never seriously brought up the consequence of vigilantism until now. If Marvel had been writing stories that are a bit more grounded since the sixties, the death toll caused by vigilantism would have been astronomical and the Civil War would have occured in the early 80s.

But the story is what it is and Speedball is obviously guilty of involuntary manslaughter. The fact that other people got away with it before you isn't a valid defense in a court of law.

True,But if you Notice Wolverine was the only one looking for Nitro(and Namor) i Understand your point but C'mon look at Nitro powers that could have happend to anyone....Though his team mates did tell him he was in over his head though it looked like they could take the others

And really this is all Electros fault why? Remember The New Avegers the jail break...well had Electro not freed them then Nitro couldnt have destroyed Stamford......Butterfly Effect

Wow but look at NItro's track record now he gave Cap Marvel Cancer and destroyed Stamford....Not bad

Anyway if you've seen The Wolverine Nitro told Logan someone bigger was behind the Stamford thing(some one in the goverment) he was even going to tell Logan before Namor showed up

 

[ProjectX2]

This is going to turn out to have Maria Hill as the villain who is supported by the US goverment to annihilate the heroes, and/or build a US superhero army...

 

[E.Vi.L.]

This is going to turn out to have Maria Hill as the villain who is supported by the US goverment to annihilate the heroes, and/or build a US superhero army...

She's not villainous so far. She's driven and she acts more like cop than like Fury's cowboy, but that doesn't make her a villain. Just an Antagonist if you're rooting for Cap's side.

True,But if you Notice Wolverine was the only one looking for Nitro(and Namor) i Understand your point but C'mon look at Nitro powers that could have happend to anyone....Though his team mates did tell him he was in over his head though it looked like they could take the others

Yeah, the lack of interest in Nitro is a weakness in the script.

But as for how do you deal with Nitro and his crew without destroying the town? Bring in a telepath from the Marvel universe (quite a few options), shut Nitro down, then overwhelm the remaining villains with at least a 2:1 ratio of heroes to villain.

There you go.

 

[Void.M]

She's not villainous so far. She's driven and she acts more like cop than like Fury's cowboy, but that doesn't make her a villain. Just an Antagonist if you're rooting for Cap's side.



Yeah, the lack of interest in Nitro is a weakness in the script.

But as for how do you deal with Nitro and his crew without destroying the town? Bring in a telepath from the Marvel universe (quite a few options), shut Nitro down, then overwhelm the remaining villains with at least a 2:1 ratio of heroes to villain.

There you go.

I guess but alot of the Telepath lost their powers after House of M so their few of them.

 

[Hibiki]

I guess but alot of the Telepath lost their powers after House of M so their few of them.

All you need is Rachel as the Phoenix and BAM! Janitors Assemble.