Blackest Night discussion (Spoilers!)

[Random]

Predictable but satisfying - I agree.

Yep

I was hoping for more of a "redemption" for Sinestro. Maybe there was and I just didn't pick up on it.

Not really, I thought it would have been interesting to have him save the day, trying to avenge Abin Sur, but they mention his ego than he was just ripped from the life entity, nothing redeeming happened

The returns of Aquaman and Martian Manhunter were the most predictable but I have to say of all of the character returns from the dead I've seen over the years - these were probably the most acceptable circumstances.

I knew they were going to use this to bring back a ton of dead characters and they handled it quite well. It felt very natural and not just thrown in as a huge retcon.

What am I missing re: the significance of the appearance of the White Lantern battery at the end?

I think that's just a teaser for Brightest Day thing that going to happen. Part of the next step for Green Lantern line. My guess is that there will be a white lantern as a new hero.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Or an old hero taking up that mantle.

 

[Zombipanda]

Eh, maybe I'm just not a fan of event comics, but I have the same mixed feelings about the book I did when it began. As a metaplot bridge for the DCU it worked fine, but as a story standing on its own right, it just felt kind of weak. To me, it felt like Johns threw a bunch of ideas at the wall to see what stuck, but consequently didn't really have the space to explore many of them. Instead, it was just one big cliffhanger after another without any genuinely great pay-off for most of them. I had the same problem with it that I do with Bendis' events, in that it was largely just a big successive fight scene, although Johns did a better job peppering good little character moments throughout. I'll have to read it through again, but in the end it felt like, Black Lantern Superman/Flash/Wonder Woman/etc., Earth-based Rainbow Corps, etc. weren't really that consequential to the story which, in the end was pretty simplistic for a nearly year long series. It was broad, but not deep, I guess is what I'm saying.

Given how strong GLC was in comparison to the core book, I'd be curious to see how well I would have enjoyed the book if it had remained primarily focused on the GL mythology rather than dipping so strongly into the core universe.

I am excited for Brightest Day though. It sounds like it will be a vehicle for Tomasi and Johns to tell smaller, character-driven stories about the guys at the fringes of the universe and those who have been dead for a while. And that's really what those guys do best.

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

I'd go even farther than Zombipanda and say that Blackest Night (at least, the main series, I didn't read GLC or the tie-ins) was an utter and complete failure. For me Blackest Night existed entirely to showcase Geoff Johns' limitations as a writer; he cannot craft a proper deconstructionist story. I'm starting to wonder if Johns is even capable of the excellent characterization that used to be the primary selling point of his work. Maybe it's just a result of his overexposure at DC, but there's really no excuse for this.

If Blackest Night is, indeed, meant to comment upon the circular nature of death in comics, it fails to do so on an intellectual level. "A big successive fight scene" is an apt way of describing it. I feel similarly to this as I do to Secret Invasion or Siege ; years upon years of buildup and frustrating, poorly conceived attempts at crafting an epic scale and emotional backdrop resulting in splash-page pimp shots of Superheroes jumping at one-dimensional antagonists while screaming formerly iconic catchphrases. Which, by the way, are woefully overused in some sort of post-ironic embracing of antiquated storytelling tropes from silver age comics. Having Captain America or Hal Jordan or whatever silver age caricature nostalgic writers are trying to reintroduce as cultural icons these days continue to act like a self righteous moral absolutist in the face of adversity doesn't really ring as "cool" for me anymore.

Really, though, I've been sort of cynical about the whole technicolor cluster-**** that's engulfed DC since Geoff Johns decided to arbitrarily designate DC's entire universe by singular color-coded emotions. Which, I guess, is the other issue I take with Johns' writing; he has no sense of character or subtlety. He overwrites everything. Having Lex Luthor scream "I just want to be Superman!" (albeit, while bound by the lasso of truth) is so much less interesting than an understated crafting Luthor's superficially hubristic persona being a result of deflection and envy that's sparsely integrated into the story. Unfortunately, Blackest Night has been Johns' vehicle to rewrite the entire DCU into the simplistic, one-note characters that they can potentially be in the hands of someone who doesn't fully understand them; the rainbow Power Ranger corps and Johns' overwriting are only the most irritating symptoms of this.

 

[Sacred&Profane]

I'd go even farther than Zombipanda and say that Blackest Night (at least, the main series, I didn't read GLC or the tie-ins) was an utter and complete failure. For me Blackest Night existed entirely to showcase Geoff Johns' limitations as a writer; he cannot craft a proper deconstructionist story. I'm starting to wonder if Johns is even capable of the excellent characterization that used to be the primary selling point of his work. Maybe it's just a result of his overexposure at DC, but there's really no excuse for this.

If Blackest Night is, indeed, meant to comment upon the circular nature of death in comics, it fails to do so on an intellectual level. "A big successive fight scene" is an apt way of describing it. I feel similarly to this as I do to Secret Invasion or Siege ; years upon years of buildup and frustrating, poorly conceived attempts at crafting an epic scale and emotional backdrop resulting in splash-page pimp shots of Superheroes jumping at one-dimensional antagonists while screaming formerly iconic catchphrases. Which, by the way, are woefully overused in some sort of post-ironic embracing of antiquated storytelling tropes from silver age comics. Having Captain America or Hal Jordan or whatever silver age caricature nostalgic writers are trying to reintroduce as cultural icons these days continue to act like a self righteous moral absolutist in the face of adversity doesn't really ring as "cool" for me anymore.

Really, though, I've been sort of cynical about the whole technicolor cluster-**** that's engulfed DC since Geoff Johns decided to arbitrarily designate DC's entire universe by singular color-coded emotions. Which, I guess, is the other issue I take with Johns' writing; he has no sense of character or subtlety. He overwrites everything. Having Lex Luthor scream "I just want to be Superman!" (albeit, while bound by the lasso of truth) is so much less interesting than an understated crafting Luthor's superficially hubristic persona being a result of deflection and envy that's sparsely integrated into the story. Unfortunately, Blackest Night has been Johns' vehicle to rewrite the entire DCU into the simplistic, one-note characters that they can potentially be in the hands of someone who doesn't fully understand them; the rainbow Power Ranger corps and Johns' overwriting are only the most irritating symptoms of this.

I'm not sure I have anything else to contribute, aside from the appropriateness of your Secret Invasion analysis. Blackest Night and Secret Invasion share fundamentally empty attributes, in 'set-up,' pacing, and resurrection, event-building finales.

 

[Zombipanda]

I'd go even farther than Zombipanda and say that Blackest Night (at least, the main series, I didn't read GLC or the tie-ins) was an utter and complete failure. For me Blackest Night existed entirely to showcase Geoff Johns' limitations as a writer; he cannot craft a proper deconstructionist story. I'm starting to wonder if Johns is even capable of the excellent characterization that used to be the primary selling point of his work. Maybe it's just a result of his overexposure at DC, but there's really no excuse for this.

If Blackest Night is, indeed, meant to comment upon the circular nature of death in comics, it fails to do so on an intellectual level. "A big successive fight scene" is an apt way of describing it. I feel similarly to this as I do to Secret Invasion or Siege ; years upon years of buildup and frustrating, poorly conceived attempts at crafting an epic scale and emotional backdrop resulting in splash-page pimp shots of Superheroes jumping at one-dimensional antagonists while screaming formerly iconic catchphrases. Which, by the way, are woefully overused in some sort of post-ironic embracing of antiquated storytelling tropes from silver age comics. Having Captain America or Hal Jordan or whatever silver age caricature nostalgic writers are trying to reintroduce as cultural icons these days continue to act like a self righteous moral absolutist in the face of adversity doesn't really ring as "cool" for me anymore.

Really, though, I've been sort of cynical about the whole technicolor cluster-**** that's engulfed DC since Geoff Johns decided to arbitrarily designate DC's entire universe by singular color-coded emotions. Which, I guess, is the other issue I take with Johns' writing; he has no sense of character or subtlety. He overwrites everything. Having Lex Luthor scream "I just want to be Superman!" (albeit, while bound by the lasso of truth) is so much less interesting than an understated crafting Luthor's superficially hubristic persona being a result of deflection and envy that's sparsely integrated into the story. Unfortunately, Blackest Night has been Johns' vehicle to rewrite the entire DCU into the simplistic, one-note characters that they can potentially be in the hands of someone who doesn't fully understand them; the rainbow Power Ranger corps and Johns' overwriting are only the most irritating symptoms of this.

Hm. I agree with most of that.

 

[thee great one]

I don't.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

I have to agree with Gideon "I use to be Wade Wilson" Stargrave about how the main mini was kinda nothing more than one big fight scene. But I'd like to add the caveat that its tough to add character pieces to an event that spans the entire DCU, which is why us trying to dissect something like this own to character moments is tough.

I feel compared to his previous mini, Infinite Crisis, this was much much better. Then again, I didn't enjoy Infinite Crisis one bit.

I do agree with Gideon about the whole one note character emotion care bear rings. Indigo and Violet ARE THE SAME COLORS!

I love how releasing the Anti Monitor was the good thing in this war. Releasing something that WANTS TO DESTROY OUR UNIVERSE! is a good thing. Yeah.

The GLC tie ins where the highlight of this mini. Kyle's death/resurrection, Guy's rage and the women in the fridge is awesome.

 

[E]

I love how releasing the Anti Monitor was the good thing in this war. Releasing something that WANTS TO DESTROY OUR UNIVERSE! is a good thing. Yeah.

Isn't everything better off since he doesn't have the power of the Sinestro Corps, though? That was the impression I had.

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

I have to agree with Gideon "I use to be Wade Wilson" Stargrave about how the main mini was kinda nothing more than one big fight scene. But I'd like to add the caveat that its tough to add character pieces to an event that spans the entire DCU, which is why us trying to dissect something like this own to character moments is tough.

Yeah, but capriciously designating an entire cast of characters as being representative of a single emotion robs them of dimension in a way that most other superhero event comics don't manage. In tandem with Johns' over-characterization, any emotional core of the story fell through for me. I felt like Blackest Night was more indicative of bad writing than a failing of the genre. If you ask me, though, his character work all around has been fairly mediocre for the last year or so.

I feel compared to his previous mini, Infinite Crisis, this was much much better. Then again, I didn't enjoy Infinite Crisis one bit.

I do agree with Gideon about the whole one note character emotion care bear rings. Indigo and Violet ARE THE SAME COLORS!

See, I liked Infinite Crisis more than this. Granted, I haven't read it in awhile and Superboy Prime annoys the **** out of me. In addition, I can't really remember what Alexander Luthor was trying to do with that giant, mystical tuning fork, but I can't imagine that it was a particularly intelligent plot device. But Johns wrote The Flash and Superman fairly well with a plot that was (if I recall) relatively inoffensive, and that's more than I can really say for Blackest Night. I'm still not convinced that Geoff Johns wasn't trying for a meta-fictional commentary with Blackest Night, which at the very least, he didn't have the pretension to so clearly overstep his bounds in Infinite Crisis. Whether you liked it or not (and statistically, most of you thought it was confusing and poorly constructed), Final Crisis was a story about stories about how we tell stories, and this was at least thematically consistent. Blackest Night didn't even manage to properly deconstruct or examine a singular element of a famously simplistic storytelling medium. So, I dunno, I'd prefer it if Johns was still writing stuff like Infinite Crisis.

Agreed on the chromatic space police, though. I thought that the Sinestro Corps worked particularly well, but felt that most of the others were either superfluous or poorly conceived.

 

[mike3717]

I don't.

Me either. I mean not to be a d*ck or anything but it really seems like some folks are intent on over analyzing this stuff. They are super hero comic books people, not Thoreau.

Anyway, I thought this was great. Loved the splash page (in the previous GL or BN #7) with white lantern Sinestro and all the avatars of the emotional spectrum. Cool if you ask me.

 

[Grocer Man]

I never really thought this story was built for the huge event format. Just a story for the Green Lantern aspect of the DCU.

Still looking forward ot Blackest Night.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Mike, Geoff Johns said multiple times how this story was an exposition of emotions and all that jazz. That's where Gideon is basing his analysis of the story off of.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Yeah, I don't think you can fault people for looking at what was supposed to be the defining purpose of the series and pointing to where it failed. Johns wanted this to be a high concept comic, but in the end, it was just an extended battle with some small moments of poignancy. Nothing in the core Blackest Night book was as good as the stuff in GL and GLC. Well, except the stuff with The Flash. I liked that.

My opinion of this rests in the middle. Moments were great, but this should NOT have been a DCU event, just a GL event. We should have had 6 issues of the war of light leading to the revelation of Nekron and the possibility of the white... Then we should have had 6 issues dealing with shutting down Nekron... That would have been much better, I think.

 

[ProjectX2]

What I didn't like:
- a bunch of characters being deputized and then not really serving any purpose (a cool visual but kind of unnecessary to the story)
- everyone becoming a White Lantern in #8
- the mainly boring spin off mini series and one shot tie ins

I liked pretty much everything else. It was a DC event comic - all I wanted was to be entertained. I never really thought there was an underlying message to it so it didn't bother me that it was basically just a giant fight comic. Most events (apart from Final Crisis, which was different in all ways - a story I have now read numerous times and still enjoy, but I can see why it was considered a failure) are but the fact that Geoff Johns had actually built up to this one made it more worthwhile.

And there might not have been many great emotional moments in Blackest Night, it doesn't mean that Johns hasn't written any recently - those issues of Adventure Comics were fantastic and some of his best work.

I think all three titles were all doing something different and each one had its ups and downs as the story progressed. I am just surprised they managed to do something this epic for a character like Green Lantern. Look at his universe now. His titles are bigger than Superman and Batman.

Also, Planet-man hasn't even posted in this thread.

 

[E]

If Geoff Johns meant for this to be some deep poignant something-or-another it was a failure.

But as a action-packed summer popcorn flick kind of thing, it was great. He would've been much better off presenting it as such. If that is true that he said that about it I'm kind of disappointed with him.

Not everything has to be as deep as V for Vendetta or Watchmen or needs to be analyzed like them.

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

I wasn't expecting Watchmen when I read Blackest Night. I don't see why it shouldn't be held to a certain standard, though; how does the fact that it's a "big, dumb superhero fight that also happens to be somewhat entertaining" make it exempt from critical analysis?

I'd be interested to hear what the fans of Blackest Night felt it's virtues are (if any) beyond the fact that it was fun to read if you don't think about it too much. I've heard a lot of people say that this was a fantastic, even innovative event, but I've never found a particularly compelling explanation attached to these sentiments.

 

[Iceshadow]

I think "innovative" is stretching it, since it follows the same formula as Sinestro Corps war. However, I enjoyed Blackest Night, but I felt that that whole thing could have been trimmed down some.

 

[Grocer Man]

I enjoyed it, but that's because I wasn't expecting much more then a rehash of the Sinestro Corps War.

When I first heard about the "examination of emotion" in interviews, I just rolled my eyes.

I'm also a little disappointed Hal never had to face his dad.

 

[E]

I wasn't expecting Watchmen when I read Blackest Night. I don't see why it shouldn't be held to a certain standard, though; how does the fact that it's a "big, dumb superhero fight that also happens to be somewhat entertaining" make it exempt from critical analysis?

It doesn't, at all, but holding it to a higher standard is kind of pointless. Why criticize it based on criteria for something it's not?