Battlestar Galactica (re-imagined)

I just saw "Dirty Hands", the sixteenth episode of the third season (so, not the one that just aired on Sunday, the one before it), and it's a top episode.

This is the type of episode that got me into the show.

It is so simple: it's about the struggle of the last refugees of the human race trying to survive in the hostile expanse of space whilst constantly under threat of the genocidal Cylons who are mercilessly hunting them down. It shows us their present, harkens to their past before the annihilation, shows the troubles within and without that the fleet faces, the sheer level of danger they are all in, and their hopes for the future.

This is what I like about Battlestar Galactica. Not the nonsense episodes involving Boomer, her baby, and the Cyclon "plan" to see God or whatever the hell it's meant to be this week.

It's not the pseudo version of the above episode description where we have what I mention, but added to it, an absurd morality where everyone bad at the end is punished and everyone who was 'wrong' at the beginning is now 'right'.

For example; the episode "The Woman King" (love the title) is balls. The epsiode revolves around the Saggitaron refugees who don't believe in modern medicine. They have an epidemic. There are two doctors, Doc Cottle who's been around since for seasons and Galactica's personal physician. The other doctor, played by the guy who played Senator Kelley in the X-Men movies, has shown up for this one episode and we've never seen him before. He's a civilian doctor and so looks after the civilian populace, and in this episode, its the Saggitaron refugees.

Helo, the guy who married a Cylon - excuse me one moment :arrgh: :arrgh: :arrgh: :arrgh: - is in charge of looking after the Sagittarons.

Anyway, it quickly becomes obvious that there's an epidemic plaguing these Sagittarons, and there isn't much vaccine. The disease is fatal after a day or two and then kills in a couple more. They innoculate the military personnel to keep the ship safe, then if a Sagittaron displays the symptoms, they can be given the vaccine if they want to (which they won't). It quickly becomes apparent no one really cares about the Sagittarons, there's quite a bit of racism towards them. One big beef is that they didn't fight on New Caprica when the Cylons invaded.

Anyhow, Helo hears rumours and quickly finds out that the new doctor is killing Sagittarons instead of vaccinating them. No one believes Helo, and the episode builds, passing from Helo is right to Helo is wrong. Helo, at one point, discovers that the doctor's mortality rate on patient's is directly proportionate to the colony from which they came - he's discriminating. Doc Cottle says its not true and that the autopsy he did proves the new doc is above and above. Then, Dhuala, a major character who's Sagittaron and doesn't like Doc Cottle because he's a 'near-sighted bastard' and hurts her when he injects her, gets vaccinated, and Helo, worried she's going to die intervenes. Then Doc Cottle and all the other guys who were racists 30 minutes ago show up, say "I found some new evidence from that autopsy I did that I missed" and then they haul the doctor away and everyone understands the meaning of racism.

As I was watching it, I became convinced that Doc Cottle was actually the guy killing Sagittarons. There's a lot of evidence to point that he's the one doing it. He should've killed Dhuala and been found out, and then, we'd have the trouble that the best physician and only military doctor in the fleet is a mass-murdering racist hatemonger.

I like Doc Cottle but I think it could've been done and done well. Instead we get a villain whom we've never seen before hate a group of people we've never seen before and then is punished and everyone is safe and happy at the end.

"Collaborators" is another episode in which this stupidity reigns - a secret jury assassinate human collaborators who worked with the Cylons during the New Caprica invasion. One by one they judge and execute them.

But at no point do any of them consider killing the CYLON THAT'S LIVING ON THE FLEET. This is like Polish Jews after being let out of Auschwitz killing every Polish Jew who worked with the Nazis but leaving the SS officer alone.

But this episode, "Dirty Hands" - it was great. It's a labour strike in the fuel refinery. The fleet can't jump if they're attacked by the Cylons. They are in mortal peril. But it's not just about that - it's about society, how it rises and falls and class struggles. It's all this and it doesn't cheat it's way out of an ending, and the characters don't make absurd decisions or change their morality at the end.

Top episode. Why I fell in love with the series.
 
Dirty Hands has absolutely been the stand out episode of the season so far. It was a pretty simple tale of the power struggles experienced between every hierarchal society. These types of stories are especially gratifying to me, as I consider myself the penultimate blue collar.

Anyway, haven't had a chance to catch the next one (Maelstrom) yet, but I'll DL it and watch it tomorrow.

I do know that
Starbuck
dies, though. Unfortunately, from some reviews I've read, its not going to measure up to Dirty Hands level of quality. Oh well...I was kind of sick of
Starbuck
anyway. The writers had kind of written her into a tough corner to get out of (all in an attempt to keep the drama up).

I'm not sure that
she's really dead
but I'll reserve final judgement until I see it tomorrow.
 
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We definitely haven't seen the end of
Starbuck.

This makes me think that she's going to be revealed as a cylon. The episode with her and Leoben was one of my favorites from the very start. I knew it would be brought up again.
 
MaxwellSmart said:
We definitely haven't seen the end of
Starbuck.

This makes me think that she's going to be revealed as a cylon. The episode with her and Leoben was one of my favorites from the very start. I knew it would be brought up again.
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Agreed. Wondering when we'll get around to learning more about the final five Cylons. Probably a bit in the S3 finale.
 
Just saw "Maelstrom". Wasn't bad. Wasnt' particularly good, but wasn't bad. Kinda boring.

Starbuck though is definately not dead. She's going to turn out to be a Cylon, which makes no kind of sense. I could try to make sense out of it, but I can't be bothered.

Starbuck will be in season 4. I'm convinced of it. This show is three years long and there's no difference between the episodes. Yes, there's some soap opera changes, but fundamentally, the premise, them trying to get to Earth versus the Cylon plan haven't progressed beyond the bland intangible mentions of 'signposts' and 'roadmaps' or whatever it is they stumbled across this week.
 
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Bass said:
Just saw "Maelstrom". Wasn't bad. Wasnt' particularly good, but wasn't bad. Kinda boring.
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I hated the episode itself, but I loved the connections to the previous Leoben/Starbuck meetings, and how it all ties into her yet to be explained "destiny". It actually seemed like they'd been planning this for awhile (given Leoben's mentions about her destiny way back in Season 1's "Flesh and Bone"), though that might not have been the case all along.

Starbuck though is definately not dead. She's going to turn out to be a Cylon, which makes no kind of sense. I could try to make sense out of it, but I can't be bothered.
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Agreed she's not dead and is a Cylon.

1.) Its a given Starbuck will at some point make a return to the series.

2.) Its also pretty much impossible Starbuck (that one in particular flying the Viper into the Maelstrom) survived the explosion of the ship, and the crushing pressure of the planet.

3.) Thus, there's only three ways Starbuck can return to the show in the future: in a flashback to before her death; being miraculously resurrected; or turning out to be one of the "Final Five" Cylons.


As for it making no sense...well, why? Its been extablished there are Cylon sleeper agents in the fleet (Boomer was one), and its entirely possible Starbuck is one. Perhaps her programming is different in the sense of her being one of the "Final Five", and this can explain away any other types of discrepancies between her Cylon-programmed behavior and Boomer's, for instance.

I'm putting more thought into this than its worth, but its only because I'm loyal to a fault and stick things through even though I should've stopped wasting energy on them long ago...its this subconscious stubborness that keeps me reading Ultimate Spider-Man, after all.

Starbuck will be in season 4. I'm convinced of it. This show is three years long and there's no difference between the episodes. Yes, there's some soap opera changes, but fundamentally, the premise, them trying to get to Earth versus the Cylon plan haven't progressed beyond the bland intangible mentions of 'signposts' and 'roadmaps' or whatever it is they stumbled across this week.
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Agreed. I think Sci-Fi (the network) realizes this in a way, and might be part of the reason that Season 4 has only been picked up for 13 episodes. Another theory is that the lower number of episodes will allow the production team more time on each one, and thereby hopefully improve the overall quality.

Either way, Season 4 will undoubtedly be the last for the show (its ratings are declining, and the fanbase has been grumbling all season about the sub-par writing of Season 3). So that gives the creative team 13 episodes to either find Earth, or wrap up the series in a different and less predictable (but probably anti-climactic) way.
 
DIrishB said:
I hated the episode itself, but I loved the connections to the previous Leoben/Starbuck meetings, and how it all ties into her yet to be explained "destiny". It actually seemed like they'd been planning this for awhile (given Leoben's mentions about her destiny way back in Season 1's "Flesh and Bone"), though that might not have been the case all along.
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Actually look at what they've done.

"You have a destiny."
"I do?"
"Yes."

For three years. We have no idea what that destiny is. That's not setting up. What that is is creating an open-ended sub-plot that you have no idea how it will resolve when you start it, but you start it with the idea of paying it off later when you've got an idea.

The "Maelstrom" episode, again, doesn't give us anything to let us know what her destiny is. It seems, her destiny was to commit suicide for no reason and show that the crew of Galactica like repeating their mistakes, allowing completely emotionally unstable pilots into Vipers (Kat for example, or Starbuck in every third episode she appears in).

This show is as annoying as X-Files in some ways.
 
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I was thinking that they might not bring Starbuck back. Just to show how 'hardcore' they are. If they do, it's even worse, I feel, since the 'destiny' thread will never be revealed. It's just a thought. It means that they're, in my eyes, damned if they do and damned if they don't. They need to do something special to salvage this 'metaplot' of theirs.
 
Bass said:
Actually look at what they've done.

"You have a destiny."
"I do?"
"Yes."

For three years. We have no idea what that destiny is. That's not setting up. What that is is creating an open-ended sub-plot that you have no idea how it will resolve when you start it, but you start it with the idea of paying it off later when you've got an idea.

The "Maelstrom" episode, again, doesn't give us anything to let us know what her destiny is. It seems, her destiny was to commit suicide for no reason and show that the crew of Galactica like repeating their mistakes, allowing completely emotionally unstable pilots into Vipers (Kat for example, or Starbuck in every third episode she appears in).

This show is as annoying as X-Files in some ways.
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I realize that the actual "destiny" and the surrounding plot hasn't been explored at all. I was actually referring to the "This has all happened before and will happen again" line that was first uttered in Season 1's "Flesh and Bone" by Leoben, and repeated in Season 2 and then this episode. That in itself is pretty telling.

What I mean is that it kind of gives away the fact she is a Cylon. Her "past" and "present" have happened before, and will happen again, according to Leoben. It kind of parallels the Cylon programming pretty closely, in the sense that the sleeper agents are given a fake history and life up to that point. Maybe its the same every time. Or maybe only for her or her model.

I was thinking that they might not bring Starbuck back. Just to show how 'hardcore' they are. If they do, it's even worse, I feel, since the 'destiny' thread will never be revealed. It's just a thought. It means that they're, in my eyes, damned if they do and damned if they don't. They need to do something special to salvage this 'metaplot' of theirs.
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I don't think they'll shoot themselves in the foot that badly. Then again, a lot of Season 3 seems to point in that direction, so I'll just say I really ****ing hope they don't take that route.
 
Well, I enjoyed last nights episode ("The Son Also Rises" 3x18). Pretty interesting character study of Apollo, as well as a very interesting performance by Mark Sheppard as Baltar's new lawyer, Romo Lampkin. I thought the "kleptomania" thing was pretty cool, especially the way it echoed undertones in Apollo's character (as it was meant to).

One of the more interesting episodes of the season. It was almost as good as "Dirty Hands", and helped close out the "Starbuck is dead" plot-lines pretty well.






As for Baltar...I swear that Baltar is a Cylon, one of the Final Five (and probably Model Number Nine...hehehehe). In the Mini-Series he somehow miraculously survived a nuclear explosion by crouching behind Caprica Six's legs? I don't think so. The next shot we see is of him running through a field towards the Raptor piloted by Boomer and Helo. Its entirely possible the writers either intended this or (more likely) will retcon it in that the model on Caprica was destroyed (with Six) in the explosion, then will wake up or transfer into another body, with no memory of the explosion. I think its going to be revealed at the end of this season, after Baltar's trial and execution, and we cut to him waking up in a tank.

I'm sure we'll get some explanation as to the purpose of keeping him in the dark for so long, especially after he was Vice President...though I'm still not sure abotu all this. Just a theory, but there's still a lot weighing against it I'm trying to work around (most notably Baltar being told continuously by the Cylons that he was not one...of course, we know they can lie).
 
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I thought the whole point of the final five was that the Cylons don't know their Cylons. No one knows who they are, which allows the writers to have them be totally inconsistent to 'the plan' and at the same time avoid the stupid plot hole of how anyone can know there are 12 models when 5 of them have never been seen.

Ugh.

I think that the season finale should've revealed that there was human cylons. That should've been the finale. Imagine the huge deal that would've been. There's no need to say there's only 12.

See, I think the writers absolutely bollocked up their story arc. A good story arc progresses, it's a story arc, it changes and moves.

Look at the pilot. The pilot said "There are 12 Cylon models, Galactica is looking for Earth, the Cylons have a plan."

Three years later we can add to that, "There is a human/cylon baby."

That's not a story arc. That's just endlessly alluding to a repeating pattern.

Instead, the pilot should've said, "The Cylons blew up Earth."

During the first season they discover the myth of Earth and they have three camps - those who want to continue warring with the Cylons, those who want the fleet to just hide, and those who want the fleet to journey into dangerous, unknown space looking for Earth.

We then later discover that some Cylons look and feel human.

And it keeps churning. By revealing it all in the pilot, they've had nowhere to go for the last three years and, like Lost, this is why people are getting frustrated with the blasted thing.
 
Bass said:
I thought the whole point of the final five was that the Cylons don't know their Cylons. No one knows who they are, which allows the writers to have them be totally inconsistent to 'the plan' and at the same time avoid the stupid plot hole of how anyone can know there are 12 models when 5 of them have never been seen.

It could easily be revealed that it isn't that no one knows

Ugh.

I think that the season finale should've revealed that there was human cylons. That should've been the finale. Imagine the huge deal that would've been. There's no need to say there's only 12.

See, I think the writers absolutely bollocked up their story arc. A good story arc progresses, it's a story arc, it changes and moves.

Look at the pilot. The pilot said "There are 12 Cylon models, Galactica is looking for Earth, the Cylons have a plan."

Three years later we can add to that, "There is a human/cylon baby."

That's not a story arc. That's just endlessly alluding to a repeating pattern.

Instead, the pilot should've said, "The Cylons blew up Earth."

During the first season they discover the myth of Earth and they have three camps - those who want to continue warring with the Cylons, those who want the fleet to just hide, and those who want the fleet to journey into dangerous, unknown space looking for Earth.

We then later discover that some Cylons look and feel human.

And it keeps churning. By revealing it all in the pilot, they've had nowhere to go for the last three years and, like Lost, this is why people are getting frustrated with the blasted thing.
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That might've been unavoidable given the "pilot" was actually a Mini-Series with no option (at the time) to continue beyond that, and no interest from networks to continue beyond that, until it got phenomenal ratings after airing on NBC. It probably could've been planned better, especially since Moore wanted to turn it into an ongoing show from the pilot...its just no one ever expected that to actually happen.

I agree with most of your points above, however, I remain much less cynical about it than you. I agree this season has been crap compared to the first, and even much of the second. However, overall its still a show I enjoy, with characters that I at least find dynamic and somewhat intriguing. And so I watch it every week, and I even read the comics.

I also agree the plot does need to start progressing (drastically). Hopefully Season 4 will do so, but we can only wait and see.
 
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DIrishB said:
That might've been unavoidable given the "pilot" was actually a Mini-Series with no option (at the time) to continue beyond that, and no interest from networks to continue beyond that, until it got phenomenal ratings after airing on NBC. It probably could've been planned better, especially since Moore wanted to turn it into an ongoing show from the pilot...its just no one ever expected that to actually happen.
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Yes, I've heard this before.

Now go look at the 'mini-series'.

It is not a mini-series.

There are huge open-ended aspects to it, and it ends on a cliffhanger.

It was written as a pilot. It's obvious that is what it was. If it wasn't, Earth would've been found in said pilot.

It ends on a cliffhanger. It is not complete. The actual mini-series defies that excuse because it is not written so. So, sorry, but I don't agree with your point at all.
 
Anyone who has watched the original series will see what Ron Moore is doing.

He has re-imagined the original series right down to "remaking" the old episodes and story arcs. For example, the recent episode with Galen on the Labor issues was a direct spin from the old episode where people were in jail and the sons and daughters had to finish the sentences of their sires. You need to look for the similarities in the plots, add in a dash of modern interpretation and contemporary events and VOILA!

Baltar's trial is a take on Saddam Hussien, of course. On New Caprica we were the Iraqi's, now we're back to being the USA again.

I do believe that next year will be the final episodes, with only 13 being ordered. I believe that we will get to Earth and will be wrapped up. Expect "Galactica 1980" done right. The optimum would be to have them arrive at some pre-historic date, but for costs they will most likely set them in our contemporary world.

I believe that Starbuck is one of the Final 5, yes. Also recall that Leoben told us all that Adama was a Cylon, as well. Season 1. My wife likes the show as much as I like watching Dr. Phil with her (I want to punch him in his pop-culture psych mouth) - and still dropped a load when Starbuck died.

Romo is a kick arse character. Hope he stays around. Best new character on the show, IMO. Lock him in a room with Dr. Phil, please. Romo would make Phil feel 2 inches tall. LOL!!!
 
Bass said:
Yes, I've heard this before.

Now go look at the 'mini-series'.

It is not a mini-series.

There are huge open-ended aspects to it, and it ends on a cliffhanger.

It was written as a pilot. It's obvious that is what it was. If it wasn't, Earth would've been found in said pilot.

It ends on a cliffhanger. It is not complete. The actual mini-series defies that excuse because it is not written so. So, sorry, but I don't agree with your point at all.
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I wasn't making a point, just offering a theory. And either way, it did its job by getting you to watch the first season.

I win.
 
Bass said:
:lol:
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The real test will be if the Season 3 finale can get you interested in Season 4.


On a side note, due to your constant recommendations, I've begun checking out Babylon 5. I'm only a few episodes into the first season, so haven't gotten the full effect, but I understand where you were coming from in most respects to this series (not the overall plot, as I've only gotten a taste, but I can see the directions its heading in already and match that up to things I've heard, read, or previously seen of the series).

The only thing I can say BSG consistently does better than B5 are the acting, music, and effects (naturally, given BSG's decade of CGI advancement going for it). The last two are granted, especially due to Babylon 5 being on a much tighter budget (without a major network's backing). However, the only thing I'm unimpressed with so far is the acting. Really the only one who stands out is Michael O'Hare as the Commander (Sinclair I think). The guy is wooden and uninteresting, a bad thing for your expected focal point of the show (being Valen and all). I'm looking forward to Season 2 merely for Boxleitner's character to take over. Other than that, however, the show is great! I'm very intrigued by the Vorlons, and their entire culture (the little we've seen so far, mostly in The Gathering), was pretty intriguing...I like the idea of alternate atmosphere environments on the station, as well, though logic kind of dictates their necessity given the show's subject matter. So far it gets a 3/5, though once the underlying plot of the series is addressed more, I'm sure my interest will increase and my rating will as well.
 
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