Batman/Superman news and rumors

So she's going to be Superman with lady parts?

Wow... That's... something.

It's certainly one way to approach the most iconic female character in comics. Strip out the mythological origins that distinguish her from the rest of the crowd and just make her a Lady Superman.
 
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It is a stupid idea. But then again, it's not like there's been anything good reported/rumored for this movie (story wise).

Why is it a stupid idea? I think it's preferable to tie their origin in with Krypton than to have yet another super powered race of individuals, let alone all females. The plot line of the genetically grown Kryptonians as shown in MoS offers a good avenue for that. And given the events of the prequel comic, there's a certain logic to Kara choosing not to breed males.

And since when did you take up trolling? You're a fan of a guy whose powers essentially make him a living snowman. ;)

Besides, I prefer this approach than the comic origin of her being formed from clay. Why do you find it stupid?

So she's going to be Superman with lady parts?

Wow... That's... something.

It's certainly one way to approach the most iconic female character in comics. Strip out the mythological origins that distinguish her from the rest of the crowd and just make her a Lady Superman.

That's a simplistic breakdown. They can entirely keep certain mythological aspects of the character. Given MoS's more grounded, "realistic" approach to the material, it makes sense for the "supers" introduced so far to have a common origin.

Secondly, if this is true, it makes her a sort of Kryptonian/Earthling half-breed to a degree. Her being the product of continued Keypronian genetic engineering programs but those offspring becoming gradually depowered over 18,000 years of exposure to Earth's atmosphere. It's entirely possible to still tie in mythological properties to the Amazons, without directly leaning on the magical hoodoo "they're made from clay" crap. The doesn't fit at all in the more grounded DCCU. It's entirely possible for the Amazons to be viewed as demigods due to their greater strength, etc.

And she's not a Lady Superman. While she may have much greater strength than a normal human, I doubt she'll have the ability to shoot lasers from her eyes, etc. She may not even be able to fly. While that essentially makes her a lesser version of a Kryptonian, it also allows an independence from the Krypronian culture and mindset, and I think that can only lead to hopefully a more interesting character.


But seriously, guys, can we stop with the Chicken Little stuff?
 
Why is it a stupid idea? I think it's preferable to tie their origin in with Krypton than to have yet another super powered race of individuals, let alone all females. The plot line of the genetically grown Kryptonians as shown in MoS offers a good avenue for that. And given the events of the prequel comic, there's a certain logic to Kara choosing not to breed males.
In my opinion it's lazy writing. It's a change that doesn't seem to make any sense to do.

And since when did you take up trolling?
Newsflash, people! Expressing an opinion where you don't like something is now trolling! We must tell the masses!

You're a fan of a guy whose powers essentially make him a living snowman. ;)
Ducks have bills and bees have wings. I can also come up with two things that have nothing to do with each other.

Besides, I prefer this approach than the comic origin of her being formed from clay. Why do you find it stupid?
I go back to the lazy writing. And who says she would have to be formed from clay? That tiny bit can be axed and just have her born as another Amazon.

But seriously, guys, can we stop with the Chicken Little stuff?
:roll:
 
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In my opinion it's lazy writing. It's a change that doesn't seem to make any sense to do. Newsflash, people! Expressing an opinion where you don't like something is now trolling! We must tell the masses! Ducks have bills and bees have wings. I can also come up with two things that have nothing to do with each other. I go back to the lazy writing. And who says she would have to be formed from clay? That tiny bit can be axed and just have her born as another Amazon. :roll:

Relax, Ice, most of that was made in jest. But I disagree it's lazy writing. I think tying it together makes a certain sense.

I understand the vitriol against this rumor (and that's all it is currently), but I personally think it fits in with the more grounded/realistic feel they're going for with the DC Cinematic Universe.

Having multiple different sources of super-powered people is less grounded than it being related to the same source. And the magic and "formed from clay" origin certainly isn't grounded.

Also, this may in fact be continuing a plot thread established in the Man of Steel Prequel comic (if you haven't read it it's available online, just Google it). In that story, Kara (Supergirl) crash lands on Earth in one of the Kryptonian colony ships 18,000 years ago (it's this ship that Clark finds in the film). It's left unanswered whether she survived (or a psychotic, murderous Kryptonian did instead, it's left open ended), but someone walked off the ship.

It's possible the Amazons are descendants of the Kryptonians born from the colony ship, and I suppose they could write in that the embryos were damaged or something so only females could be born. After living on Earth and exposure to the atmosphere, they were essentially depowered in comparison to Kryptonians exposed to Earth's sun, but were still far above humans, essentially viewed as demigods.

Therefore the mythological aspect of the character is retained in a way, while still holding to the more grounded, realistic approach.

Personally I don't have a problem with it, and I think it's a bit cheap to dismiss it as being dependent on Superman's origins. There's 18,000 years of independence from Kryptonian culture while they're on Earth. That's comparable to saying modern humans are the same (culturally, physically, and sociologically) as they were when they began colonizing Europe. It's very likely the Amazons won't identify themselves or their culture as Kryptonian.

I actually think it could lead to interesting character dynamics between Superman and Wonder Woman. He'll view her as a Kryptonian and feel a kinship and familiarity with her because of that, whereas she'll view herself as an Amazon/Earthling. It'll be a simple way to set up conflict between the characters and offer a decent way of further exploring Clark's solitude as the last Kryptonian, as well as his acceptance of Earth as his new home, something the Amazons did thousands of years before.

Personally I think it could work.
 
I think it's stupid, too. I don't necessarily think it's lazy writing, it's just creating a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. WW has a pretty rich origin and story, and like Zombi said, to make it so derivative of Superman just strips the character of what makes her her.

The character is rich enough on her own that she doesn't need a cameo in a Superman movie to validate a movie for her. Find a writer with a good story to tell and just tell it.

DC is so weird. It's like they desperately want to do as well as Marvel (even comparing her existence in the movie to an existing Marvel movie) but they are hell bent on doing it in the most convoluted way possible. if you want to make a Justice League movie just make a Justice League movie. Don't try to convince us and yourselves that it can work and needs to happen by trying to validate the characters.
 
I think it's stupid, too. I don't necessarily think it's lazy writing, it's just creating a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. WW has a pretty rich origin and story, and like Zombi said, to make it so derivative of Superman just strips the character of what makes her her. The character is rich enough on her own that she doesn't need a cameo in a Superman movie to validate a movie for her. Find a writer with a good story to tell and just tell it. DC is so weird. It's like they desperately want to do as well as Marvel (even comparing her existence in the movie to an existing Marvel movie) but they are hell bent on doing it in the most convoluted way possible. if you want to make a Justice League movie just make a Justice League movie. Don't try to convince us and yourselves that it can work and needs to happen by trying to validate the characters.

While I agree with just about everything else you said, again I don't mind them tying in the Amazons origins as offshoot Kryptonians. It's only a rumor, but even if it's true I disagree that this approach is any worse than the origin from the comics.

I'm not saying there isn't need to worry, I just think it's silly to automatically assume the worse. MoS got some things right, and some wrong. This will likely do the same.

Do I think it's a mistake to cram Diana into the movie? Probably. It's likely a way for WB to test the waters and seeing how the character is received by general audiences, which is ironic as if they're giving her as much screen time as Black Widow in IM2. The scenes she'll be in will most likely not allow a fair or developed look at her as a character. But then again, maybe they will. Goyer was able to write a few very great scenes/character defining moments using little dialogue, like the talk between Jonathan and Clark when Jonathan reveals to Clark where he came from.

I'm hoping Goyer and the Argo screenwriter Affleck brought in are able to achieve those convincingly and economically short (in terms of time) bits of character building.

Granted, as said it is worrisome with the approach they're taking (the screen time she's described as getting) in regards to screen time, but I don't mind them altering aspects of her origin.
 
I don't know, dude. Those elements of Greek mythology are pretty crucial to the character as far as I'm concerned. Every great run of the character, from George Perez to Greg Rucka to Azz have featured mythological elements prominently. The gods, mystical relics, and fantastic creatures have been pivotal to the character's stories since the start. Making her a derivative aspect of Superman's origins just seems demeaning. Part of what makes these characters special to me (and the reason I'd actually prefer independent films without a shared universe) is that they each have their own flavor and mythology. If we're treating them as a trinity, Batman is the pulp detective facing weird Dick Tracy villains that may or may not be the result of his war on crime. Superman is the big earthbound super-science story. And Wonder Woman is about the weird, the mystical, the mythological. By your train of logic, they'd be better off making Aquaman the result of kryptonians who crashed in the ocean, Green Lantern a dude who got his hands on a kryptonite ring, and Flash a dude who got struck by kryptonian ray gun. Oh, and Batman's parents were shot by Lex Luthor. Keep in mind, this isn't the route that made Marvel successful. They built each of the characters up with their own mythology and said ****it to making things streamlined. Yes, there are elements that loop to the stories, but they kept the integrity of all the characters intact, and if upcoming films are any indication, the Marvel U is populated by all sorts of weird alien monsters and a vast mythological tapestry that expands beyond just the core.

For all my imaginative might, I just can't envision a scenario in which "Amazons are long-lost kryptonians" is anywhere near as interesting as actually playing into the 70 year history of the character, and most of the scenarios I do envision seem in one way or another like a spin-off of Superman. If you want this character to be successful, give her her own sandbox that plays with all the elements that have made her successful over the better part of a century, instead of shoehorning her to whatever backstory you've built for Superman.

But let me ask you this: What do you think would be a good stand-alone, solo Wonder Woman story for an origin scenario like this? Something that sets her up as a franchise in her own right.
 
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I don't know, dude. Those elements of Greek mythology are pretty crucial to the character as far as I'm concerned. Every great run of the character, from George Perez to Greg Rucka to Azz have featured mythological elements prominently. The gods, mystical relics, and fantastic creatures have been pivotal to the character's stories since the start. Making her a derivative aspect of Superman's origins just seems demeaning. Part of what makes these characters special to me (and the reason I'd actually prefer independent films without a shared universe) is that they each have their own flavor and mythology. If we're treating them as a trinity, Batman is the pulp detective facing weird Dick Tracy villains that may or may not be the result of his war on crime. Superman is the big earthbound super-science story. And Wonder Woman is about the weird, the mystical, the mythological. By your train of logic, they'd be better off making Aquaman the result of kryptonians who crashed in the ocean, Green Lantern a dude who got his hands on a kryptonite ring, and Flash a dude who got struck by kryptonian ray gun. Oh, and Batman's parents were shot by Lex Luthor.

That's going overboard.

And I didn't say do away with the mythical/magical properties of the character and her world altogether, I said I didn't mind the idea of Amazons being long lost Kryptonians who've essentially become Earthlings. They're long past recognizing themselves as Kryptonians, and I don't see the mythology/magic stuff being necessary in this version of the character. It would be a massive shift in tone to the series (even though there's only one film in that series, it set a pretty obvious tone) to introduce Wonder Woman and bring in her invisible jet and lasso, etc.

I'd personally prefer they do something similar to the Thor films, where essentially it's their advanced science and tech which make what they do indistinguishable from magic, not someone doing actual magic. That may be a bit derivative, but I hate "magic" as it often results in deus ex Machina plot devices or a lack of set "rules", which can result in unimaginative storytelling.

Keep in mind, this isn't the route that made Marvel successful. They built each of the characters up with their own mythology and said ****it to making things streamlined. Yes, there are elements that loop to the stories, but they kept the integrity of all the characters intact, and if upcoming films are any indication, the Marvel U is populated by all sorts of weird alien monsters and a vast mythological tapestry that expands beyond just the core. For all my imaginative might, I just can't envision a scenario in which "Amazons are long-lost kryptonians" is anywhere near as interesting as actually playing into the 70 year history of the character, and most of the scenarios I do envision seem in one way or another like a spin-off of Superman. If you want this character to be successful, give her her own sandbox that plays with all the elements that have made her successful over the better part of a century, instead of shoehorning her to whatever backstory you've built for Superman. But let me ask you this: What do you think would be a good stand-alone, solo Wonder Woman story for an origin scenario like this? Something that sets her up as a franchise in her own right.

And again, I think it's an oversimplification to say taking that approach is like "shoehorning her into Superman's origin". That's not the case. Do they come from the same planet? Yes, in a way. But their stories are vastly different. Superman was intentionally sent to this planet to escape and survive his own dying world. He grew up pretending to be human and accepting his place in the universe. Presumably, the Amazons grew from a Kryptonian colony ship leaving their world to explore, expand, colonize. The ship crashes and becomes stranded on Earth with only one survivor. That survivor also presumably begins using (at least some of) the genetic material on board to birth more Kryptonians, establishing their own society that's likely far removed from the rest of mankind but inevitably influenced by it over thousands of years, and influencing mankind with their actions, for instance their superior strength and abilities laying the groundwork for what would become Ancient Greece's and Rome's pantheon on gods and demigods.

By the time of Diana's introduction in this movie, it's entirely reasonable there's a secret society comparable to the Amazons from the comics (just with less magic and forming people from clay). I don't think it alters or cheapens the character at all, whether they use a common source of origin. It goes back to what I said earlier about it being slightly more realistic, as in the law of averages/odds. Even one race evolving to a point of scientific, technological, social, and physical (depending if the solar radiation they're absorbing) advancement as the Kryptonians has extremely low odds, let alone two, or three, etc, (though I suppose they could use some explanation like the Guardians or some other higher force is protecting and allowing the proliferation of life) or however many there will be by the time all is said and done.
 
Agreed about the Greek mythology aspect being very important.

It reminds me of the revelation in Earth X that all of the gods are aliens, except much more forced in this instance. It worked in Earth X (I thought, anyway). It came out of left field but did make sense. If I already know about this now it suggests that it's not a major revelation and is only being used to legitimize her presence in a Superman movie in which she doesn't belong.
 
Anyone else think we're making too much out of an idea brought up by Jett from Batman On Film? He's not even saying it's a rumor he's heard, it's simply a hunch he has. I would put $50 Monopoly Dollars on Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman having a 15 minute long 3-way in the movie. Discuss!
 
Anyone else think we're making too much out of an idea brought up by Jett from Batman On Film? He's not even saying it's a rumor he's heard, it's simply a hunch he has. I would put $50 Monopoly Dollars on Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman having a 15 minute long 3-way in the movie. Discuss!
Regardless of what it is, it's still something worth discussing of the idea itself.
 
Anyone else think we're making too much out of an idea brought up by Jett from Batman On Film? He's not even saying it's a rumor he's heard, it's simply a hunch he has. I would put $50 Monopoly Dollars on Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman having a 15 minute long 3-way in the movie. Discuss!

I blew some water out of my nose at that.

Wow, I was under the wrong impression, I thought it was at least a rumor, not just a hunch.

Nevermind.

Regardless of what it is, it's still something worth discussing of the idea itself.

True.

Personally I wouldn't mind if it does end up being the case. :)
 
Regardless of what it is, it's still something worth discussing of the idea itself.

I can appreciate that. I just think it's a bit unfair when fans start to bash WB/DC based off of a hunch that some guy on the internet has. It seems that the 'internet' is just so quick to condemn anything WB/DC does, but Marvel gets the benefit of the doubt more often than not. To be clear, by frustration isn't aimed at this board, but instead the comment section of a lot of DC/Marvel articles.

For what it's worth, I think I read somewhere that the "Amazons are Kryptonians" rumor has been confirmed as false.
 
Anyone else think we're making too much out of an idea brought up by Jett from Batman On Film? He's not even saying it's a rumor he's heard, it's simply a hunch he has. I would put $50 Monopoly Dollars on Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman having a 15 minute long 3-way in the movie. Discuss!

Post of the Day.
 
I blew some water out of my nose at that.

Wow, I was under the wrong impression, I thought it was at least a rumor, not just a hunch.

Nevermind.



True.

Personally I wouldn't mind if it does end up being the case. :)

Do you read Wonder Woman and like Wonder Woman?

Because I really can't understand liking the character and not seeing this premise as fundamentally contrary to the architecture on which she's built.
 
Do you read Wonder Woman and like Wonder Woman? Because I really can't understand liking the character and not seeing this premise as fundamentally contrary to the architecture on which she's built.

Admittedly I don't read a lot of Wonder Woman and perhaps I'm at fault, and not understanding. I just think the mythological/magical elements of the character are hokey.
 
Admittedly I don't read a lot of Wonder Woman and perhaps I'm at fault, and not understanding. I just think the mythological/magical elements of the character are hokey.

Hm. Okay, fair enough. Look at it like this.

Changing Diana's origins to be the descendant of a race of aliens is about the equivalent of changing Superman's origin so that he's a genetically engineered superbeing created in a Wayne Enterprises lab. Personally, I don't find the inclusion of Greco-Roman myth any more hokey than the sci-fi origins of other characters. And I think there's an audience out there for it. It's certainly an opportunity for DC to do something different from Marvel, rather than just following in their footsteps. You might not like big bits of her story very much, but it seems like a waste to me to throw out huge portions of what makes her unique just for a segment of the audience they think might not "get it".

You should definitely read Azz and Rucka's runs though. They're fantastic.

And let's not forget, the "sci-fi gods" angle of Thor isn't a wholesale rebuild of the character's concept. Kirby's conception of Thor had a sci-fi feel to it from the start. After all, the New Gods were originally intended for his spin on Thor.
 
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So WB have delayed the Batman/Superman film by almost a year.

Now it will be released in May, 2016.

Ant-Man's box office take just went up

Apparently Ben Affleck injured his leg so that's delaying things by six weeks. However, a month and a half isn't ten months, and I'm thinking the real motivation for this was probably for script rewrites (I know Affleck brought in the guy who wrote Argo to do some rewrites...maybe he's doing more extensive rewrites than I though), etc.

Ah well. Marvel just won 2015 before the first punch was thrown. It'll be interesting to find out what films Marvel has planned for 2016, to see which one will go head to head with Batman/Superman. If it's a Dr. Strange or Black Panther film (or even a solo Thor or Cap film), I can see it losing a lot if box office to Batman/Superman.

Guess we'll find out Marvel's 2016 film plans at this summer's comic con.
 
So WB have delayed the Batman/Superman film by almost a year.

Now it will be released in May, 2016.

Ant-Man's box office take just went up

Apparently Ben Affleck injured his leg so that's delaying things by six weeks. However, a month and a half isn't ten months, and I'm thinking the real motivation for this was probably for script rewrites (I know Affleck brought in the guy who wrote Argo to do some rewrites...maybe he's doing more extensive rewrites than I though), etc.

Ah well. Marvel just won 2015 before the first punch was thrown. It'll be interesting to find out what films Marvel has planned for 2016, to see which one will go head to head with Batman/Superman. If it's a Dr. Strange or Black Panther film (or even a solo Thor or Cap film), I can see it losing a lot if box office to Batman/Superman.

Guess we'll find out Marvel's 2016 film plans at this summer's comic con.

The big rumor is that Marvel might be trying to get a Planet Hulk script out the door to have something flashy enough to compete with BvS. Other than that, the only solo film I see being bankable enough to compete with BvS is another Iron Man. I'd assume if they've got Doctor Strange or Black Panther coming out, they'll push back the release so they don't have to compete.
 
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The big rumor is that Marvel might be trying to get a Planet Hulk script out the door to have something flashy enough to compete with BvS. Other than that, the only solo film I see being bankable enough to compete with BvS is another Iron Man. I'd assume if they've got Doctor Strange or Black Panther coming out, they'll push back the release so they don't have to compete.

Agreed. Will be interesting to see how Marvel approaches it. I personally think we'll be seeing some release schedule shifting on Marvel's part.
 

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