Batman R.I.P. Discussion (Spoilers!)

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I do not know. But I think I like it?

I suspect it will make sense when put all together.
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Yeah. Reading each issue individually is nutty. The only way I will understand this is by reading it all at once.

Bruce Wayne just turned into the Batman from Venus or whatever. Batradia, what the hell?

And so is Hurt the Black Glove? Or is the group the Black Glove?
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

ProjectX2 said:
Yeah. Reading each issue individually is nutty. The only way I will understand this is by reading it all at once.

Bruce Wayne just turned into the Batman from Venus or whatever. Batradia, what the hell?

And so is Hurt the Black Glove? Or is the group the Black Glove?
Click to expand...

The Black Glove is:

1. A group of wealthy and powerful individuals who engage in high stakes gambling involving ****ing people's personal lives way up.
2. The head of the organization.
3. A movie produced(?) by Mayhew about a couple's life ruined by a group resembling 1 above.
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

So, that's Nightwing that's been committed to Arkham under the alias of the Mime, right?
 
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Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

So, uh, holy ****.

Morrison's Batman is even crazier than Frank Miller's All-Star Batman, isn't he?
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

So, I'm really liking the idea of Dent as the Black Glove more and more. It's a long shot, but with Morrison saying that nobody's figured out who the bad guy is and that it's someone everyone knows, I see more and more of it.

First, a few assumptions about the group. I think we can assume the organization itself is made up of Gotham's ruling elite, who probably manipulate the underworld to sustain their own wealth. That would bring the class war into play, the idea that the thugs and mobsters cut their way to a meager living while the rich reap all the benefits. I'm going to assume that the murder of the Waynes was driven by something more than happenstance, and given the background of Bruce's parents, can only assume that he was a threat to them, due to his status as a philanthropist and reformer. Maybe Thomas Wayne had actually learned of their presence and was looking to uncover them, which would add gravitas to his value as "the first Batman". Either way, he was blackmailed or manipulated into the chain of events that led to his death. Perhaps his wife's family was involved in his betrayal. And with the Waynes gone, the Black Glove prospers again. At least until the Batman shows up and challenges them in an entirely new manner. Early on, they figured out his identity (perhaps as early as the isolation experiments) and since then, they've been baiting him, waiting until the right moment to strike. The questions I can't fathom answers to are, why wait so long and why the obsession with creating replacement Batmen? Anyway, I think Dent is a good candidate not for the original Black Glove figurehead (I don't really see any eligible candidates for "well known" characters that actually predate the murder of the Waynes).

But both characters operate under the modus operandi of duality and game playing. Two-Face's MO is right out in the open, while the Black Glove is operating with a repeating motif of duality: red on black or black on white, good vs. evil, usually manifested into some sort of a game where there are only two, mutually exclusive sides. Two-Face's game play manifests on the simpler level of a coin flip. He's also one of the few Batman rogues who fits clearly as a gangster. He frequently (particularly early on) reverts to the mob boss mentality that the unscarred Dent was intimately aware of. He presents a (relatively) stable style of crime in the mold of the corporate organized crime structure that fits the Black Glove's mode of operations. As the skeleton of organized crime is cannibalized by the influx of rabidly psychotic criminals, Two-Face is a pliable surrogate for a new crime boss. Further, he's been characterized as less evil and more a twisted version of Dent's original ideals, lending itself to the organization's apparent obsession with a replacement Bat. And the events surrounding his disfigurement make the likelihood that he places the blame on Wayne's shoulders incredibly likely. He was one of the golden boys, an exclusive member in Batman's triumvirate. In short, his disfigurement seems to be the breaking point for the city spinning out of control, for Batman's short-term crusade turning into a lifelong war, and for the psychopaths to greedily spill into the streets (similar to what we're seeing now, with all the mainstay villains locked away). He'sone of only a handful of people who knew Batman's identity in the very first few years of his career. And the exploration of dual identity of Bruce Wayne and Batman is a shoe-in for Harvey's struggle. They're both basically split personalities at this point. Finally, the story that led into Morrison's run on the book featured the character, turning Dent (who had been established as Gotham's new protector in Morrison's 52) back into Two-Face, while at the same time implying that, even when Harvey Dent seemed to be in charge, Two-Face was still there, whispering in his ear. Maybe Two-Face has been playing Harvey for the fool for years and years now.
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

It's a good theory, but I don't think Dent was in 52 at all. It was in Robinson's 8 part crossover which had Dent as Gotham's protector and featured the return of Two-Face.
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

ProjectX2 said:
It's a good theory, but I don't think Dent was in 52 at all. It was in Robinson's 8 part crossover which had Dent as Gotham's protector and featured the return of Two-Face.
Click to expand...

I could have sworn it briefly alluded to Dent being trained to protect Gotham City in the missing year.
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

ProjectX2 said:
It's a good theory, but I don't think Dent was in 52 at all. It was in Robinson's 8 part crossover which had Dent as Gotham's protector and featured the return of Two-Face.
Click to expand...

Zombipanda said:
I could have sworn it briefly alluded to Dent being trained to protect Gotham City in the missing year.
Click to expand...

Dent either wasn't in 52 or was in it very briefly. They did establish him as the protector of Gotham during the missing year in Robinson's Face the Face arc.

So there you go.
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I'm liking the Hush arc in Detective Comics. The art is great. It's really creepy. And now Scarecrow is involved.

Though does Dr. Crane being around there when Bruce's parents were killed make sense? I didn't think it would fit into the timeline...
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Dr. Crane is MUCH older in the comics than in the movie and stuff. I'd put him around 50 at the youngest.
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Dr.Strangefate said:
Dr. Crane is MUCH older in the comics than in the movie and stuff. I'd put him around 50 at the youngest.
Click to expand...

Strange. I've never got that impression from his other appearances.
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I wonder if he will see Scarebeast. Probably not.


The best part was the scene with Zatanna and Catwoman.
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

TGO and I tend to discuss aspects of Morrison's Batman run online frequently and often we discuss who we think the Black Glove may be. Most of the time I tell him weird theories or ideas I come across related to RIP. These have included how Jeremiah Arkham is the Black Glove, secretly releasing all of these villains from Arkham over the years to **** with Batman's psyche. He desires to study Batman and he sees him as the ultimate analysis. I like this idea. Others are a second personality of Bruce Wayne, like Tyler Durden, who's emerged as a result of the crazy **** he's been though, or The Joker's super personalities. Maybe Thomas Wayne... or Alfred. Alfred. I've mentioned him numerous times. He definitely fits Morrison's clues... the whole world know Alfred. Where there's Batman, there's Alfred. The only problem TGO and I saw in this was that Alfred being a villain after all this time would be a huge mind**** and sort of out of place. But then I came across this:

Wikipedia said:
"Calling himself The Outsider, he indirectly battled the Dynamic Duo on a number of occasions, using others as his puppets – the Grasshopper Gang in Detective #334, Zatanna in Detective #336, and even the Batmobile itself in Detective #340 – and generally only appeared as a mocking voice over the radio. He did not physically appear in the comics until Detective #356."
Click to expand...

So for some reason, he's been a villain to Batman before. Alfred. WTF?

Personally, I prefer the Arkham idea but it doesn't fit with the clues. Alfred, however, could especially with all those crime novels he loves to read...

Timothy Callahan, the guy who apparently analyses everything Morrison has written, also supports the Alfred as Black Glove theory. He also points out that the prose issue is probably narrated by the Black Glove and therefore Alfred. We all know about Alfred's trashy taste in literature, which would explain the cliches and stuff which people have pointed out in that particular issue of Batman.

I'm against turning Alfred into an outright villain but he really fits. And we know that every Batman story is in Morrison's timeline. So I'm scared.
 
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