Batman Begins (Movie spoilers)

Bass said:
Saw BATMAN BEGINS again yesterday.

I enjoyed it a lot more this time but... it's not a bad film. There's nothing wrong with it.

But I just find it a bit boring and very bland.

But there's nothing wrong with it and everyone loves it - so I'm confuzzled.
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That's pretty much the same take I have.

It's very easy, within the fanboy discourse, to talk about what a great movie Batman Begins is. That, I think, is one of the reasons why I think a 'good, faithful' Batman story is fundamentally boring and bland, and it takes something really exceptional and different to make it special.

As such, Batman Begins is a good film in the sense that it gets everything right, but its also way too easy to get things right that it becomes bland and boring that way. It is unremarkably excellent in all aspects.

Which is why I like Iron Man more. You could argue that there are several holes or flaws or whatever, but as an adaptation and modernization of a heretofore lesser known Marvel character (he's well known but he's no Hulk, who had a very well loved TV program or an all-ages company mascot like Spider-Man) it is essentially more fun and in a sense "does more work" than Batman Begins has to do to be excellent.
 
Well, to each his own, I personally don't find it boring at all.

I do think the third act (by which i mean everything after Scarecrow is committed to Arkham) is a bit too inflated, and could have been cut down significantly with no harm to the film, but in a way i'm glad it's there, because it builds more that can be worked on in the sequels.
 
What I meant by boring in its excellence wasn't the same as saying the film was boring.

What I meant is that it's excellence itself is boring.
 
ourchair said:
What I meant by boring in its excellence wasn't the same as saying the film was boring.

What I meant is that it's excellence itself is boring.
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I understand. Others here have called the film itself boring.

In regards to what you said, Batman Begins' excellence should've been boring. It should've be so obvious that that's what the movie should be like.

But it wasn't, because somehow so many people still just don't get Batman and I lived in fear that they'd screw it up and make him a public vigilante who swings down streets visibly on jumplines and works with the cops and mentors a 15 year old in a circus outfit.

The fact that they did it pretty much perfectly was one of the most relieving things I've experienced in a few years. It was so satisfying I got chills.
 
Like I say, it's my third favorite Batman movie, but I'm never going to like it more than the Burton movies, which were just much bigger, with more colorful characters. It's more of what I want in a Batman movie.

And just because people like different aspects of Batman than you do doesn't mean they don't "get" Batman.
 
Joe Kalicki said:
Like I say, it's my third favorite Batman movie, but I'm never going to like it more than the Burton movies, which were just much bigger, with more colorful characters. It's more of what I want in a Batman movie.
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I like that stuff too, and sometimes I prefer '89 over Begins for that reason, but it's the only one that comes close because Begins is just such a better movie than Returns or the others.

And just because people like different aspects of Batman than you do doesn't mean they don't "get" Batman.
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It's not even a matter of what I like here, there are aspects of Batman that just would not work as in a Batman movie today, and some people still clamour for them.

But yes, I shouldn't have said that in regards to the character himself. Just his movies.
 
ourchair said:
That's pretty much the same take I have.

It's very easy, within the fanboy discourse, to talk about what a great movie Batman Begins is. That, I think, is one of the reasons why I think a 'good, faithful' Batman story is fundamentally boring and bland, and it takes something really exceptional and different to make it special.

As such, Batman Begins is a good film in the sense that it gets everything right, but its also way too easy to get things right that it becomes bland and boring that way. It is unremarkably excellent in all aspects.

Which is why I like Iron Man more. You could argue that there are several holes or flaws or whatever, but as an adaptation and modernization of a heretofore lesser known Marvel character (he's well known but he's no Hulk, who had a very well loved TV program or an all-ages company mascot like Spider-Man) it is essentially more fun and in a sense "does more work" than Batman Begins has to do to be excellent.
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I dunno. I think BATMAN BEGINS is a boring movie, but it's a full movie. IRON MAN is a really enjoyable TV-movie, though. IRON MAN is more entertaining, but I think lacks substance.

Dr.Strangefate said:
Well, to each his own, I personally don't find it boring at all.

I do think the third act (by which i mean everything after Scarecrow is committed to Arkham) is a bit too inflated, and could have been cut down significantly with no harm to the film, but in a way i'm glad it's there, because it builds more that can be worked on in the sequels.
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I think the whole problem with that part of the film, for me, is that while it's a completely logical and desired climactic resolution to the film, it doesn't seem to fit with the tone or atmosphere. I really like the idea, but the execution leaves me feeling like the film was struggling to make a point but didn't know what point to make.

But I really think all my problems with the film lie in how I perceive what is on the screen. I can't really fault what was on the screen, as it's all very well done indeed. Especially the music. Wow.
 
I'm convinced if we all brainstormed and examined the world's problems in general half as intently as we do discussing comics and movies, we'd have collectively cured AIDS and all forms of cancer, repaired the ozone layer, developed a cheap and easily renewable fuel source, and probably all would've saved Kristin Kreuk from an oncoming truck at random on a street corner.

Ah. Priorities are grand, eh?
 
Bass said:
But I really think all my problems with the film lie in how I perceive what is on the screen. I can't really fault what was on the screen, as it's all very well done indeed. Especially the music. Wow.
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Yes. I'm glad it's returning in the sequel.

That part in the first full 'Dark Knight' trailer where the Joker says "Let's put a smile on that face" and there's that big dramatic swell...gives me shivers every time I see it.
Joe Kalicki said:
The Dark Knight will benefit by the lack of Goyer, mark my words.
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Definitely.
Planet-man said:
The answer to all of those problems is Soy anyway.
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Shut up veggie lover!
 
DIrishB said:
I'm convinced if we all brainstormed and examined the world's problems in general half as intently as we do discussing comics and movies, we'd have collectively cured AIDS and all forms of cancer, repaired the ozone layer, developed a cheap and easily renewable fuel source, and probably all would've saved Kristin Kreuk from an oncoming truck at random on a street corner.

Ah. Priorities are grand, eh?
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Planet-man said:
The answer to all of those problems is Soy anyway.
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moonmaster said:
Yes. I'm glad it's returning in the sequel.

That part in the first full 'Dark Knight' trailer where the Joker says "Let's put a smile on that face" and there's that big dramatic swell...gives me shivers every time I see it.
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The "dum...dum...dum...dum dum dum..." bit is the bit I adore. I clap my hands whenever I hear it and then cackle just like Joker.

Joe Kalicki said:
The Dark Knight will benefit by the lack of Goyer, mark my words.
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I didn't realise he wasn't involved. How come?
 
OMG.

OMG.

OMG.

Linus Roache played Thomas Wayne in BATMAN BEGINS. And he plays the District Attorney in the current season of LAW AND ORDER. Alongside Jeremy Sisto. Who played Batman in DC: THE NEW FRONTIER.

Linus Roache is Jeremy Sisto's DAD.

What a shock! They don't even have the same surname!

OMG!
 
Bass said:
I didn't realise he wasn't involved. How come?
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Because he's not an overly talented writer. He's a comic fan for sure, and that helps, but he's ultimately pretty lame. He did write the Hasselhoff Nick Fury movie, let's not forget.

Meanwhile, Dark Knight is written by Nolan and his brother, who did Memento and The Prestige, and although I have huge problems with The Prestige, both those movies are leaps and bounds anything Goyer's ever done.

(one exception to Goyer's lameness: Dark City)
 
Something interesting - Both Liam Neeson and Heath Ledger have their debuts as villains in this franchise.

I think that's a terrific idea - casting 'good guys' to pop their villain-cherry in Batman...
 
Well, Liam Neeson always plays the "mentor" role, so that's why he's good for Ducard and then it gets flipped at the end.

But I would argue that Sir Gawain in Excalibur is a villain.
 
Bass said:
Something interesting - Both Liam Neeson and Heath Ledger have their debuts as villains in this franchise.

I think that's a terrific idea - casting 'good guys' to pop their villain-cherry in Batman...
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Ironically, the role that arguably made Christian Bale famous/known was a "bad" guy role, Patrick Bateman in American Psycho.
 
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