Batman Anthology - Timeline (Outdated)

selfishmisery said:
I would just divide it into two timelines:
Earth-89 and Earth 97.
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Should Catwoman (2004 Movie) be set in Earth-89 or Earth-97, though? Based on release dates, it should be Earth-97.

Though, there's the interpretation that Earth-97 shares a very similar history with Earth-89 but the actual films Batman/Batman Returns didn't happen exactly in Earth-97. Thus, Harvey Dent's skin colour and the Thomas/Martha death scene being slightly different looking. In that case, Catwoman should be set in Earth-89 as it shares stronger connections with Batman Returns. We could also put Catwoman 80th Anniversary on Earth-97, as maybe Penguin survived in that universe. Joker is totally dead in both, though (maybe not anymore in Earth-89).

In that case:
Earth-89
1989 - Batman
1992 - Batman Returns
1993 - Batman '89
2004 - Catwoman
2019 - Crisis on Infinite Earths
2022 - The Flash

Earth-97
1995 - Batman Forever
1997 - Batman & Robin
200? - Catwoman 80th Anniversary, "Now You See Me"


However, in Earth-66 (and Earth-76), Catwoman changes appearances and skin colour serveral times. That's not an issue.
 
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Pro Bot said:
Should Catwoman (2004 Movie) be set in Earth-89 or Earth-97, though? Based on release dates, it should be Earth-97.

Though, there's the interpretation that Earth-97 shares a very similar history with Earth-89 but the actual films Batman/Batman Returns didn't happen exactly in Earth-97. Thus, Harvey Dent's skin colour and the Thomas/Martha death scene being slightly different looking. In that case, Catwoman should be set in Earth-89 as it shares stronger connections with Batman Returns. We could also put Catwoman 80th Anniversary on Earth-97, as maybe Penguin survived in that universe. Joker is totally dead in both, though (maybe not anymore in Earth-89).

In that case:
Earth-89
1989 - Batman
1992 - Batman Returns
1993 - Batman '89
2004 - Catwoman
2019 - Crisis on Infinite Earths
2022 - The Flash

Earth-97
1995 - Batman Forever
1997 - Batman & Robin
200? - Catwoman 80th Anniversary, "Now You See Me"


However, in Earth-66 (and Earth-76), Catwoman changes appearances and skin colour serveral times. That's not an issue.
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https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_'89_Issue_4#Notes we have hint of the timeline
 
Rumours are Val Kilmers Batman could be in The Flash using CGI and body doubles with his blessing.

If so, I'm pleased that the canon between these movies is clearer. Hopefully people don't start saying that Batman & Robin is seperate from Batman Forever because they didn't use George Clooney, though. :p

Gain of salt.
 
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RedStar 4546 said:
@Pro Bot as this look like 89 comics out of canon now!
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Nope. Let's assume that Keaton merges with the DCEU (because otherwise there is nothing to discuss):

1. Kwing is using his bias because he doesn't like those comics. He has absolutely no grounds to stand on when he says it isn't canon. In fact, it's an officially licensed continuation clearly meant to coincide with The Flash. General canon rules, as always, is canon until contradicted by higher piece of media.

2. There's more than one Robin. Drake Winston could be the first Robin, and Dick Grayson could be the second. Even if Drake Winston doesn't exist in the DCEU, Batman '89 will still be canon to the original Keaton Batman universe seen in Batman, Batman Returns and The Flash, which Batgirl is not set in.

3. That would be in a post-Flash universe, which, ASSUMING that's Keaton, has a different history already. JK Simmons is Gordon in The Flash. He's much younger than the Burtonverse Gordon... which means that Gordon would be the same age as Batman and not comfort him after his parents died. Joker died in Earth-89 while in the new hypothetical DCEU earth Harley Quinn would still exist. Unless they want to do multiple Jokers, which... has precedence.

4. It doesn't even have to be Keaton. It depends on how he got to the DC Extended Universe.

To better explain:
Earth-1 - DC Extended Universe (Man of Steel to The Flash)
Earth-89 - Burtonverse (Batman to The Flash)

New Earth - DC Extended Universe (The Flash onwards)

New Earth would have elements of both.

Now, this is again very hypothetical, but that's the
 
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Pro Bot said:
Nope. Let's assume that Keaton merges with the DCEU (because otherwise there is nothing to discuss):

1. Kwing is using his bias because he doesn't like those comics. He has absolutely no grounds to stand on when he says it isn't canon. In fact, it's an officially licensed continuation clearly meant to coincide with The Flash. General canon rules, as always, is canon until contradicted by higher piece of media. we all bias

2. There's more than one Robin. Drake Winston could be the first Robin, and Dick Grayson could be the second. Even if Drake Winston doesn't exist in the DCEU, Batman '89 will still be canon to the original Keaton Batman universe seen in Batman, Batman Returns and The Flash, which Batgirl is not set in. Maybe.

3. That would be in a post-Flash universe, which, ASSUMING that's Keaton, has a different history already. JK Simmons is Gordon in The Flash. He's much younger than the Burtonverse Gordon... which means that Gordon would be the same age as Batman and not comfort him after his parents died. Joker died in Earth-89 while in the new hypothetical DCEU earth Harley Quinn would still exist. Unless they want to do multiple Jokers, which... has precedence. which it is not new to batman

4. It doesn't even have to be Keaton. It depends on how he got to the DC Extended Universe.

To better explain:
Earth-1 - DC Extended Universe (Man of Steel to The Flash)
Earth-89 - Burtonverse (Batman to The Flash) maybe

New Earth - DC Extended Universe (The Flash onwards) probably

New Earth would have elements of both. I think in my opinion....it will.

Now, this is again very hypothetical, Agreed, we don't know what will happen in the future .
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selfishmisery said:
I hope Catwoman (the movie) ain't gonna become DCEU canon. Earth-97 maybe?
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It could be either, honestly. The film just has a bigger connection to the Burtonverse than the Schumacherverse (even though the same events happened, basically).

That Catwoman review video from DC did specifically mention it being connected to Crisis' Earth-89... but also listed it as being linked to the Burton AND Schumacher movies.

I really doubt DC will make it relevant either way. It can be in Earth-89, but then not have any elements make it over. (Though, it's an easy excuse to keep Batman Returns' Catwoman and have a completely new one for Gotham City Sirens)

If they really end up merging with the DCEU, it would only be elements of the Burtonverse. We already know that Gordon is much younger in Batgirl than in the Batman films.
 
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To be honest, I think that I'd rather say the Schumacher films and Catwoman are pre-crisis Earth-89 over a different earth.

Reasons:
1. Crisis Aftermath - "Bat-Nipples is canon!" (As a result of Earth-89)

2. DC YouTube channel Catwoman review places Burton and Schumacher films on Earth-89.

3. They're sequels to the Burton films.

4. Earth-97 is a joke. The actual context is literally "if 1990 Flash is Earth-90 and 1989 Batman is Earth-89, what Earth is George Clooney?", with the answer being Earth-97. If they were naming it after the start of these continuities, Schumacher would be Earth-95.

5. The Batman '89 writer made a vague joke referencing the joke from above, which again isn't an actual statement on Earth numbers. All that we can take from that is that they don't consider those films as part of the comic canon.

6. There's still the implication of the Batman & Robin logos being used in the Earth-89 batcave in The Flash. That does suggest that they're in the same universe, but we can relegate them to the alternate Pre-Crisis timeline at least. This goes both ways and the comic could also fit in pre-crisis, though I don't expect it.

7. The artist for Batman '89 called the Schumacher films a divergent alternative timeline rather than another universe. Again, they aren't completely reliable but are clear.

Those are my thoughts on that.
 
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Pro Bot said:
To be honest, I think that I'd rather say the Schumacher films and Catwoman are pre-crisis Earth-89 over a different earth.

Reasons:
1. Crisis Aftermath - "Bat-Nipples is canon!" (As a result of Earth-89)

2. DC YouTube channel Catwoman review places Burton and Schumacher films on Earth-89.

3. They're sequels to the Burton films.

4. Earth-97 is a joke. The actual context is literally "if 1990 Flash is Earth-90 and 1989 Batman is Earth-89, what Earth is George Clooney?", with the answer being Earth-97. If they were naming it after the start of these continuities, Schumacher would be Earth-95.

5. The Batman '89 writer made a vague joke referencing the joke from above, which again isn't an actual statement on Earth numbers. All that we can take from that is that they don't consider those films as part of the comic canon.

6. There's still the implication of the Batman & Robin logos being used in the Earth-89 batcave in The Flash. That does suggest that they're in the same universe, but we can relegate them to the alternate Pre-Crisis timeline at least. This goes both ways and the comic could also fit in pre-crisis, though I don't expect it.

7. The artist for Batman '89 called the Schumacher films a divergent alternative timeline rather than another universe. Again, they aren't completely reliable but are clear.

Those are my thoughts on that.
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Yeah Earth-89 merging with the DCEU better not happen...Very few people actually want that because it makes no damn sense.
 
selfishmisery said:
Yeah Earth-89 merging with the DCEU better not happen...Very few people actually want that because it makes no damn sense.
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In that case, none of these films would be canon to any new timeline created (maybe loosely the events but not really). It'd be Michael Keaton playing a new version of Batman that is a merger of the Earth-89 and Earth-1 versions of the character. Hope not, but we'll see what happens.

My personal hope in this case is that if it happens, it doesn't erase the previous universes of Earth-1 and Earth-89, just creates a sort of spin-off timeline.
 
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I don't know if it helps much but I've been reading the Batgirl tie in novel and it takes place over the summer and mentions at the start that the events of Batman & Robin were less than a month ago.
 
www.cbr.com

Batman Theory: How Gotham Evolved From Noir to Neon in the '90s Films

The original Batman films show a distinct tonal shift for Gotham City. But what made the city change its style from dark to vibrant and colorful?
www.cbr.com www.cbr.com
This is starting to sound more likely due to Superman's "absence" in the new Burtonverse and Bruce seemingly having not changed much, I'm guessing.

(For simplicity sake, I've used Earth-97 again but noted that it's disputed)

In Earth-89, nothing has changed. Batman is still a lone hero. He recruits Drake Winston, maybe he's killed by a resurrected Joker or something, and then he meets the multiverse-hopping Earth-1 Barry Allen.

Say Superman appeared in 1993 in "Earth-97". Maybe Batman sees him being a hero and people look up to him. He realises that his quest for vengeance and killing people has caused him more pain. Gotham is renovated to look more like Metropolis and Batman becomes more law-friendly.

I still think Schumacher works better as pre-crisis Earth-89, especially since in Crisis Batman "captured" Joker (somehow Jack Napier has returned), not killed, but I don't like the idea of the Schumacher films being erased to be honest. The Earth-97 thing is still unofficial mind you.
 

Wikipedia thinks Earth-203 is an alternate future to Earth-89 because of this. :confused:
In Birds of Prey (2002–2003) television series opening credits and main plot, Helena Kyle / Huntress (Ashley Scott) is shown to be the daughter of Keaton's Batman and Pfeiffer's Catwoman.[31]​ Set in the future of "Earth-203", a parallel universe where Jack Napier / Joker survived his fall in Batman (1989) and continued a "secret night war" with Batman for many years in what would become "New Gotham City", and Bruce Wayne having eventually married Selina Kyle sometime after the events of Batman Returns, having a daughter, Helena, with her, the series' main events take place years after the final night of "Joker's Revenge", where after Batman had finally managed to have Joker be set too be taken to prison instead of Arkham, and successfully dissolved his criminal empire, the Joker had (according the plans set by his psychiatrist and secret lover Dr. Harleen Quinzel) decided to celebrate his own retirement by having Selina killed in front of Helena and personally paralysing Batman's protégé Barbara Gordon / Batgirl by shooting her in the spine before giving himself up, leaving Batman to retire in grief and leave Helena to be raised by Alfred, keeping a watchful eye on her from a distance as she eventually became the crimefighter Huntress, working with Gordon and Dinah Redmond (née Lance).[31]​
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I'm doubtful. I mean, where would it end? You might as well claim Catwoman, OnStar Commercials, Earth-99 and even Lois & Clark are alternate futures.
 
Miller's Bruce Wayne was 55 in The Dark Knight Returns. In the sequels, he reaches 61.

Burton's Batman was 55 during Crisis on Infinite Earths when he "captured Joker". He will be 58 in The Flash. (Based on the timeline)

I have a feeling Keaton's Batman would have just killed Joker again, but let's wait to see if he kills in The Flash. Obviously a Schumacher Pre-Crisis Batman wouldn't kill, but then that would mean Schumacher's Batman films don't exist anymore and that would be sad.
 
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