Avengers movie discussion (news/etc.)

[Zombipanda]

They could design Janet the same way Millar did in Ultimates which was making her a main staple for Hank's research in Growth and Shrinking formulas for the human body. She could also be a subject of racism since she's a mutant and asian (but I doubt they'd go that asian route). Layer that with spousal abuse and maybe a painful family memory(abuse related maybe) and you have a pretty in-depth character.

That still makes the crux of the character's concept be reliant on her being a victim. Personally, the last thing I want is for the one female character on the team to turn into another "I'm an abuse victim, but I can be stronger than that!" cliche.

Besides, if Pym is going to be carried over from the Ant-Man movie, the last thing Marvel is going to want to do is turn one of their headline movie heroes into a wife beater. And if we introduce both the Pyms in Avengers, are we going to then turn around and reveal Hank as a scumbag? Introducing heroes no one knows about, making people care about them, revealing one of them to be a total piece of ****, and then showing the healing process for Jan is a lot of development with little payoff, especially considering the film's got to focus on four other heroes as well.

Making Ultron an off shoot of iron Man's tech, makes Tony look like a screw up and after the character development he went through in his film, Tony should not be a screw up at this point. Hank makes a better screw up then Tony.

Tony's technology is already out there and being developed by criminals. In fact, it's the whole basis for conflict in his story. It's entirely possible someone's developing Ultron tech out of it. It doesn't make Stark into any more of a screw-up than he's ever been, but it does give him substantial motive for growth in the film.

Also if wasp is no good, what Black Widow? It would be stupid of SHIELD to create a team of loose cannons and not have an agent on the field to see that the group serves SHIELD's interests.

See, Black Widow seems like a much healthier and dynamic concept for an Avengers movie to me. And she's much closer to a "brand name".

 

[Planet-man]

Recently Spike Lee compalined about how there was no black soliders in "Flags of Our Fathers", so people do notice.

Spike Lee probably isn't the best example of how noticible discrimination is. I wouldn't be surprised if I read he'd attacked a zebra for not having enough black stripes.

However, I agree it's probably a good idea to have at least one woman on the team, and a part-asian one to boot.

 

[bluebeast]

I don't see the total Pym bashing. The Pyms could really be worked into the whole Humans as Weapons plot showing how the government has been trying to produce as many superhumans as they can. Hank's a mechanical genius, but since the government already has Stark for that angle he uses his wife's mutant powers as a way to make the growing serum. Have the Pym's act all lovy dovy in front of the cameras as SHIELD's media friendly couple with Janet adding diversity to the team as the only woman and Asian member. Of course the two of them would constantly be fueding behund the scenes. But besides that, the Pyms have been an integral part of almost every major story in the Avenger's history. Hank freaking creating Ultron, how's that not enough of a reason for him to have a spot on the team? And I don't think Janet would just be the "woe is me I'm a woman" member of the team. I mean have her originally take down the Hulk like in the Ultimates. They both have so much potential to them. And you can tell a Pym story without Hank knocking the **** out of Jan in the end.

 

[Grocer Man]

I like the Black Widow idea.

If this is released before the Ant-Man movie is finished, I vote introduce the Pyms in this film. Maybe have Janet in her Giant-Girl persona from Marvel Adventures (personal favorite incarnation of her), having been developed by Pym, who acts as tech support for the team. Have the Ant-Man equipment show up in a cameo, and in the Ant-Man film, have Scott Lang in the role of Ant-Man. Make it sort of a spin-off, if you will.

 

[DIrishB]

I'm not against the Pyms showing up in the Avengers movie, I just don't think there's enough time or necessity for their inclusion in it. If they're to make a sequel, absolutely, they should be introduced.

But as has been said a thousand times already, realistically and practically speaking, balancing the Big Four and the villain(s) as it is will present a huge challenge (giving everyone their adequate focus in the story) without adding the Pyms to the mix.

My opinion of the appearing in this movie has nothing to do with their validity as characters. I can definitly see both characters working in several different approaches in an Avengers movie. I just don't think there's enough time or room or whatever in a 2 hour film (or however long this first Avengers movie will be) thats already running with four confirmed heroes and at least one villain. Trying to cram the Pyms in as well will seem heavy handed, cramped, and rob both Hank and Janet of the required screen time to develop their characters. Cramming them into the first movie is selling them both short, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Gemini]

Don't forget about the Ant-Man movie

I'm almost positive that Hank and Janet will be in Avengers, but they'll be supporting cast, the movie should be about Thor/Cap/Hulk/Tony's interactions with each other, not about these two minor characters reacting to walking beside living gods

apparently Marvel also has Nick Fury and Hawkeye movies planned for some point (probably after Avengers but whatever), so we may get Hawkeye and Widow on the team aswell

 

[DIrishB]

Don't forget about the Ant-Man movie

I'm almost positive that Hank and Janet will be in Avengers, but they'll be supporting cast, the movie should be about Thor/Cap/Hulk/Tony's interactions with each other, not about these two minor characters reacting to walking beside living gods

apparently Marvel also has Nick Fury and Hawkeye movies planned for some point (probably after Avengers but whatever), so we may get Hawkeye and Widow on the team aswell

Nick Fury - The Movie

Terrorists on a SHIELD Helicarrier, mother****er!

 

[Zombipanda]

I like the Black Widow idea.

If this is released before the Ant-Man movie is finished, I vote introduce the Pyms in this film. Maybe have Janet in her Giant-Girl persona from Marvel Adventures (personal favorite incarnation of her), having been developed by Pym, who acts as tech support for the team. Have the Ant-Man equipment show up in a cameo, and in the Ant-Man film, have Scott Lang in the role of Ant-Man. Make it sort of a spin-off, if you will.

I can agree, partly. If it came down to my call, and the film had time to breathe (i.e. a two-part Kill Bill structure), I'd have the Ant-Man film be about Eric O'Grady trying to sneak out of a SHIELD Heli-Carrier with stolen Ant-Man technology. It would be supplemental but not directly related to the Avengers film, by showing the audience the inner workings of SHIELD.

Janet would appear in the Avengers either as some variety of tech support or a scientist researching Ant-Man technology at the Trisk - not a main team member, but maybe give her a moment to shine during all the shenannery. Allude to Hank, but he doesn't need to actually show his face. If I were trying to turn my idea into a treatment, I'd have Janet field-testing the technology when the Trisk jail break occurs, and have a last act Wasp/Hulk team-up, with her serving as recon while he rampages through the facility.

If it were an expanded length, I'd definitely try fitting in a slick action scene with Black Widow, Hawkeye, and the Maximoff twins as the black ops counterpart or predecessor to the Avengers (and they'd HAVE to be called the Ultimates), maybe with Black Widow getting transferred to the Avengers as Fury's eye.

I'm not against the Pyms showing up in the Avengers movie, I just don't think there's enough time or necessity for their inclusion in it. If they're to make a sequel, absolutely, they should be introduced.

But as has been said a thousand times already, realistically and practically speaking, balancing the Big Four and the villain(s) as it is will present a huge challenge (giving everyone their adequate focus in the story) without adding the Pyms to the mix.

My opinion of the appearing in this movie has nothing to do with their validity as characters. I can definitly see both characters working in several different approaches in an Avengers movie. I just don't think there's enough time or room or whatever in a 2 hour film (or however long this first Avengers movie will be) thats already running with four confirmed heroes and at least one villain. Trying to cram the Pyms in as well will seem heavy handed, cramped, and rob both Hank and Janet of the required screen time to develop their characters. Cramming them into the first movie is selling them both short, as far as I'm concerned.

You said it much more elegantly than I ever could.

apparently Marvel also has Nick Fury and Hawkeye movies planned for some point (probably after Avengers but whatever), so we may get Hawkeye and Widow on the team aswell

Beyonce as Black Widow.

 

[marvelman]

i think they should just do it like Ultimates V. 1... seriously, it's a damn fine story, even with the aliens and all...

 

[Gemini]

Beyonce as Black Widow.

maybe if she died her hair read, and spoke with a russian accent

 

[SSJmole]

i think they should just do it like Ultimates V. 1... seriously, it's a damn fine story, even with the aliens and all...

That would be cool.


Would we get the whole "Hulk want Freddie Prinze Jr!" thing?

 

[bluebeast]

I can agree, partly. If it came down to my call, and the film had time to breathe (i.e. a two-part Kill Bill structure), I'd have the Ant-Man film be about Eric O'Grady trying to sneak out of a SHIELD Heli-Carrier with stolen Ant-Man technology. It would be supplemental but not directly related to the Avengers film, by showing the audience the inner workings of SHIELD.

Janet would appear in the Avengers either as some variety of tech support or a scientist researching Ant-Man technology at the Trisk - not a main team member, but maybe give her a moment to shine during all the shenannery. Allude to Hank, but he doesn't need to actually show his face. If I were trying to turn my idea into a treatment, I'd have Janet field-testing the technology when the Trisk jail break occurs, and have a last act Wasp/Hulk team-up, with her serving as recon while he rampages through the facility.

I could see Janet and Hank be in the movie as more SHIELD agents who work behind the scenes building tech for the Avengers. Have Janet be the media friendly member of the team who is hailed a success of the Weapon Plus Program and acts as the team's strong female figure to market to the masses and prooves to actually be pretty useful as a black ops agent and reconossance. Janet doesn't do too much in the main fights with the big supervillains but is lets the Hulk out in the final fight at the Triskelion. I could see Janet following the Hulk around once he's let loose on the villains in order to keep him under control and when he starts to go beserk have her give him the little brain zap that he needs. I'd also like to see Hank be head of the Super Soldier Serum toying with a growth hormone based on his wife's shrinking abilities, a helmut that can communicate with insects and a large scale design of Ultron units to act as support for the Avengers. Once the chips are down and his wife and teammates are in danger Hank dons the Giant-Man suit and comes to the rest of the team's aid.

I also think that if they wanted to in the first movie Hawkeye would work great as a member of the team. Maybe have him be Fury's eyes and ears on the team and kind of the second in command at SHIELD who's worked onto the team but never really trusted by his teammates. Ah who am I kidding I just want to see Hawkeye rip his fingernails off and kill ten guys with them.

All-in-all I still think it's plausible to have an Avengers roster of seven and keep it balanced. Have Cap, Tony, Thor and Wasp be the public face of the team with Pym and Hawkeye being the SHIELD agents put on the team to ensure that the government has the team under control. Hulk would, of course, be the Person of Mass Destruction that is taken down early in the film by the team but comes to their aid in the final moments.

I think you could balance out seven heroes on the Avengers if you put them in the right roles. It's always been about the big three and of course you would have those three be the main focus of the movie. Hulk would most definetly get just as much time as the other three while the Pyms and Hawkeye would be the cool characters who essentially make all of the great moments. I mean I don't know what would be cooler than seeing Giant Man walking through New York City swatting away enemies like flies, Wasp flying through the Hulk's ear canal trying to get to his brain and Hawkeye flipping around firing off arrows and nailing bad guys in the head while firing off smart-*** responses to his teammates.

 

[The Overlord]

i think they should just do it like Ultimates V. 1... seriously, it's a damn fine story, even with the aliens and all...

The problem is the movie universe is different from the Ultimate universe. The characters different, movie hulk is more like 616 Hulk then ultimate hulk, even movie Iron man is different from ultimate iron man and 616 Cap has more marketable personality then Ultimate Cap. so that already outs a fly in the ointment. Cap will already fight Nazis in his movies, so having Nazis in the Avengers will be redundant, plus the average movie going audience will think Nazi aliens are pretty stupid.

Doing a word for Word adaption of Ultimates Vol. 1 wouldn't work, the movies have dope a good job of blending the 616 and ultimate universes, plus there some good ideas from the 616 Avengers that can work in a movie. That formula has worked so far.

 

[marvelman]

see, i disagree... take out some of the sillier aspects of Ult. V.1, like horny hulk, and make Iron Man more stream-lined (i.e. not with the clunky armor), and it can still work...

and nazi aliens hasn't really been done! its' bril!

 

[SSJmole]

like horny hulk

Well there is my intrest in an Ultimates movie gone. No horny hulk = Box office flop. I'm talking biggest box office flop EVER

 

[The Overlord]

see, i disagree... take out some of the sillier aspects of Ult. V.1, like horny hulk, and make Iron Man more stream-lined (i.e. not with the clunky armor), and it can still work...

and nazi aliens hasn't really been done! its' bril!

While I disagree with your disagreement.

Ultron is a far more interesting villain than Kleiser who is nothing more than a poor man's Red Skull, combined with a poor man's Super Skrull. He is Red skull, but less realistic. Considering that the Red skull will show up in the Cap movie, Kleiser is redundant.

Like I said the movie versions of the characters are different from the Ultimate versions. I doubt movie hulk would eat people and I doubt Marvel would think a cannibal Hulk has mass market appeal. Its hard to put a cannibal on kids pillow cases.

The more extreme elements from the ultimates wouldn't have mass market appeal and would just sick an army of media watch dogs on marvel. I doubt Hank beating his wife the way he did in Ultimates, would go over well with critics or general audience. Also 616 Cap would have more mass appeal then Ultimate Cap. The ultimates character are a bit too unlikable for the general audience.

 

[Gemini]

if they try to do Ultimates Vol. 1, it'll just end up being Ultimate Avengers live-action

 

[moonmaster]

A team consisting of Howard Hughes, Dr. Jekyll, David Ickes, and a patriot from the 40's isn't interesting?

The analogy you're thinking of is "John McCain".

Zing!

Nick Fury - The Movie

Terrorists on a SHIELD Helicarrier, mother****er!

It's been done before...

 

[Planet-man]

What the ****.

 

[Gothamite]

:sure: