Avengers movie discussion (news/etc.)

Not in any meaningful way, no. It's more, "Thor is a god so we should have some LORD OF THE RINGS type stuff in there." and "Cap is in WW2, so see if you can make it a bit like SAVING PRIVATE RYAN". It's less, "This property is about this and we should use the setting and genre to create this and express this". It's superficial knowledge of the genre, checking the boxes, and we've seen it all a thousand times before. They get away with it (and deservedly so) because they are entertaining and well-told, but it's nothing substantive.

You want a great story, brilliantly told. These films are only the latter. That counts for something. I certainly enjoyed them. But I look at them and go, "It could've been better." I'm rewriting the films as I come out, and not in a, "I might change this line or add this scene to THE DARK KNIGHT", a nitpicking of slight fixes. It's more, "The film would've been better if the entire plot was different". This is why I say they don't have any meaningful understanding of their properties in regards to genre because the works are very unoriginal in that regard.
 
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DIrishB said:
I didn't mean they planned it with those franchises in mind when making or planning the movies, since obviously they have plenty of their own material to draw from. I meant they clearly are defining these movies within their respective niches: Sci-fi (Iron Man), fantasy (Thor), and war (Cap), and wondering how well the script, the actors, and JW will handle combining those aspects.
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I also thought this was the case.
 
Bass said:
Not in any meaningful way, no. It's more, "Thor is a god so we should have some LORD OF THE RINGS type stuff in there." and "Cap is in WW2, so see if you can make it a bit like SAVING PRIVATE RYAN". It's less, "This property is about this and we should use the setting and genre to create this and express this". It's superficial knowledge of the genre, checking the boxes, and we've seen it all a thousand times before. They get away with it (and deservedly so) because they are entertaining and well-told, but it's nothing substantive.
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Point taken.

You want a great story, brilliantly told. These films are only the latter.
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Thats actually a good point. They aren't TDK, but the filmmakers (in Marvel Studios case) all seem to be pulling elements together which make for some very entertaining and good films overall (again, they aren't treading the same ground Nolan is in the Batman films--these are like The Dark Knight-Lite). But they are brilliantly told. Thor especially. MS was smart to go after Branagh as a director, who automatically brings a certain respect and Shakespearean quality with him into any project he works on. A similar cue was done with hiring Hopkins as Odin...he brings the exact same elements times 10. This indicates to me Marvel Studios, or Kevin Feige, or SOMEONE had a certain realization early on for the "feel" this film should have. Whether or not this was accomplished is up to the individual viewers' opinions. I don't know, maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there.

That counts for something. I certainly enjoyed them. But I look at them and go, "It could've been better." I'm rewriting the films as I come out, and not in a, "I might change this line or add this scene to THE DARK KNIGHT", a nitpicking of slight fixes. It's more, "The film would've been better if the entire plot was different". This is why I say they don't have any meaningful understanding of their properties in regards to genre because the works are very unoriginal in that regard.
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Of course they could've been better, much better. But they also could've been MUCH worse. And while I understand your point, I disagree to a degree. I also realize that Marvel is, to be perfectly honest, more concerned with making big returns on these movies over big critical success. These films, while not on the same critical-darling level as TDK, as you said are a lot of fun and as the summer popcorn movies they're meant to be, they nailed it. They are unoriginal , granted, and don't bring much of anything new to the table, but thats ok for ONE reason only: I still look forward to watching them. And as great a movie as TDK is (I love that movie), it doesn't hold the same re-watchability factor the Marvel movies do (for me--I'm positive that isn't true for most other people). I'm not completely sure why that is, though.

E said:
I also thought this was the case.
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+1.
 
Joss Whedon said:
It goes back to the very first incarnation of The Avengers, it goes to The Ultimates, it goes to everything about it. It makes no sense, it's ridiculous. There's a thunder god, there's a green "ID" giant rage monster, there's Captain America from the 40s, there's Tony Stark who definitely doesn't get along with anybody. Ultimately these people don't belong together and the whole movie is about finding yourself from community. And finding that you not only belong together but you need each other, very much. Obviously this will be expressed through punching but it will be the heart of the film.
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Whedon really reminds me of Avi Arad right there.
 
Langsta said:
Whedon really reminds me of Avi Arad right there.
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I love the line "obviously this will be expressed through punching".

I have high hopes for Whedon on this as it seems he's getting a lot more room to breath and make his own beast in the movie than the other directors and he's clearly a guy who "gets" the characters. This is why I think Avengers will succeed where the others kind of fell flat (they were all great but they were hindered a bit by studio interference). Now that Whedon doesn't have to provide cameos, links, nods what have you in almost every scene in the movie he's allowed to make his Avengers movie. Nolan/Goyer and Vaughn/Singer were allowed to do their own thing in their movies (Nolan even convinced WB to market two Batman movies without Batman in the title) and if Whedon is granted the same this should be a great ride.
 
Trailer is HELL YES.

(I can't believe there's a preview for a ^trailer, but anyhow)

I love it! Yes, Stark gets all the lines but that's okay as he's the most popular Avenger for the movie going audience. The only thing that annoyed me is Captain America's mask-allergies (I assume he has allergies and that is why he never wears it). Other than that, loving it.

Freeze-framing is your friend: The Hulk actually looks like Mark Ruffalo, unlike Ed Norton's Hulk which looked like a CGI Hulk thing. Eric Bana's looked like him. This is a good sign, CGI-wise.

Also, the trailer has some fun editing; Captain America is thrown out a window by Loki onto a car. Not so! Freeze-frame and Loki is throwing TONY STARK out of the window! They cut it together to make it look that way! I love it.

I'm going to watch it several more times instead of working. :D
 
So great. I was so into it that I completely forgot about Hulk until they showed him at the end. Sam Jackson finally gets to shoot things!
 
Nice.

Marvel Studios is on a roll, it seems.

I've watched that trailer a half a dozen times... I think I'm gonna go back and make it an even dozen.


Also, this is interesting: (SPOILERS)

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OK, so...The other big villain we will see is THANOS. Latino Review broke that news in May but since then it has been pretty quiet regarding that. Well, according to my source, he is indeed in the film and the mysterious aliens everyone is talking about, is his army. As for the plot details, well, it will be very interesting...Basically Thanos makes a deal with Loki (like Hiddleston said in one interview that Loki makes some shady deals) to get him the Infinity Gauntlet. He trades his army for the Gauntlet. And that's about it. No word on what 'Leviathan' is though.

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If this is true, I wonder if its to set up some of the Space stuff movies Marvel's been talking about -- Guardians of the Galaxy, etc
 
DIrishB said:
Nice.

Marvel Studios is on a roll, it seems.

I've watched that trailer a half a dozen times... I think I'm gonna go back and make it an even dozen.


Also, this is interesting: (SPOILERS)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, so...The other big villain we will see is THANOS. Latino Review broke that news in May but since then it has been pretty quiet regarding that. Well, according to my source, he is indeed in the film and the mysterious aliens everyone is talking about, is his army. As for the plot details, well, it will be very interesting...Basically Thanos makes a deal with Loki (like Hiddleston said in one interview that Loki makes some shady deals) to get him the Infinity Gauntlet. He trades his army for the Gauntlet. And that's about it. No word on what 'Leviathan' is though.

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If this is true, I wonder if its to set up some of the Space stuff movies Marvel's been talking about -- Guardians of the Galaxy, etc
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Yeah, I love the sound of that.
 
I still haven't seen Captain America but I'm really excited for this. Nine Inch Nails always makes for the best trailer music (300, Terminator Salvation).
 
ProjectX2 said:
I still haven't seen Captain America but I'm really excited for this. Nine Inch Nails always makes for the best trailer music (300, Terminator Salvation).
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Unno, Tool has made music that sounds great in trailers (Captain America) or Smashing Pumpkins (Watchmen, Sin City... well anything WB).
 
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