81st Academy Awards

[Planet-man]

Back to talk Oscars and whatever else catches my fancy tonight.

I've been a big Danny Boyle fan for a number of years now and having had to explain who he actually was to a lot of people during these years it's really satisfying to finally see him really get hit by the spotlight. However, it's frustrating for me that it's for a film that, despite trying a lot, I still have not seen. I'm really looking forward to it.

Jackman was swell. Super-energetic without coming off as immodest. He could've been used more.

What was the point of nominating three songs and only playing part of each of them to desperately save time, and then doing a five-minute montage of dozens of other songs from other movies(not very effectively, I thought)?

The ceremony did feel smaller and more inimate this year, I thought. It would be awesome if they did something like the "no-budget" opening thing Jackman did with the cardboard props as a regular thing.

I loved the "circle of legendary winners" for the acting awards. Winning Best Actor and having Michael Douglas and Anthony Hopkins hand it to you.... oh man....

Disappointed that Ledger's mannerisms won over Robert Downey Jr's more skillful and detailed performance.

Best Original Screenplay.... that's just not fair. You work for years brewing details, pulling people and places and things out of your own head, and they give it to somebody whose script was largely written for them by history. There's already a category for adaptations. Hooray for In Bruges!

Mickey Rourke was great, especially in the Barbara Walters pre-interview, but after that it really began to feel like "Okay, STOP. Support is turning to pity is turning into humiliation". If he had won, they would've just been fueling detractors.

Finally, I'll just say that Bill Maher is an *******. If you win an Oscar, say what you want. If you're presenting to somebody, don't start making judgements and ridiculing people's beliefs before you do it. Nevermind that he was bashing religious conflicts and starting one in the same sentence by saying that believing in God is "silly". It would be the same as if the presenter was a Muslim and had said everybody who believes in a god other than Allah is silly before opening the envelope. People would've gone nuts.

Happy to see The Dark Knight get included in the Best-Picture-summing intro, and I'd actually say Best Sound is probably the award it deserved the most, so I'm happy about that.

All in all, a pretty good show. It's getting more painful not to be there by the year, but also more encouraging.

 

[Langsta]

Heath Ledger wins the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor.



Anyone else who's watching enjoyed Jackman's performances? I've thought it's been all great.

I'm so glad Heath Ledger won, and yes, I did enjoy Jackman's show.

 

[moonmaster]

Yeah, so they were more entertaining than I actually expected.

Jackman was great. He's very entertaining, and I feel like he probably put more effort and sincerity into his performance than most Oscar hosts ever have.

Tina Fey and Steve Martin were hilarious, though I'm surprised they dared to make a Scientology joke in front of that crowd. It's going to be reported this morning that they mysteriously died at an after-party. I also liked the appearance by Dale Denton and Saul Silver, and Ben Stiller's appearance.

The two best acceptance speeches of the night were the Best Animated Short guy who said 'domi origato Mr. Roboto' and the crazy "Man On Wire" guy. They just should have given them all the Oscars and called it a night.

Is Sophia Loren dead? Because it looked like she'd just crawled out of a grave.

Of course, I was happy to see Slumdog win like, everything. It really did deserve it.

What was the point of nominating three songs and only playing part of each of them to desperately save time, and then doing a five-minute montage of dozens of other songs from other movies(not very effectively, I thought)?

Yeah, that could've been done better.

Really, I just would've liked to see a full-scale recreation of the "Jai Ho" dance number, with the actors onstage and everything.

Finally, I'll just say that Bill Maher is an *******. If you win an Oscar, say what you want. If you're presenting to somebody, don't start making judgements and ridiculing people's beliefs before you do it. Nevermind that he was bashing religious conflicts and starting one in the same sentence by saying that believing in God is "silly". It would be the same as if the presenter was a Muslim and had said everybody who believes in a god other than Allah is silly before opening the envelope. People would've gone nuts.

That was ridiculous. When he came out, I groaned and thought "I hope he doesn't say something stupid". On top of that, his constant plugging of his documentary and half-serious complaints about it not being nominated just made him seem like even more of an *******.

 

[Planet-man]

I also liked the appearance by Dale Denton and Saul Silver, and Ben Stiller's appearance.

I think during the "watching Oscar winners while high" skit, they should've repeatedly cut to Heath Ledger's parents in the audience.

The two best acceptance speeches of the night were the Best Animated Short guy who said 'domi origato Mr. Roboto' and the crazy "Man On Wire" guy. They just should have given them all the Oscars and called it a night.

The Man On Wire acceptance speech was pretty the best part of the whole show. It combined with Sean Penn's speech were enough to watch the show for alone.

 

[Zombipanda]

So, it seems nuts that RDJ was nominated for Tropic Thunder.... but what's even more nuts is that RDJ was nominated and James Franco wasn't. Now I wouldn't nominate either, but Saul Silver was far and away a better portrayed character. No doubt.

 

[Planet-man]

I think he was about as good as RDjr and DEFINITELY a lot better than Ledger. I badly want Franco to take over the role of the Joker for the next movie now.

 

[moonmaster]

Y'know, I rewatched The Dark Knight for the first time in a while on Saturday night and decided that - despite how much I love his performance - Ledger could be replaced.

 

[Zombipanda]

Y'know, I rewatched The Dark Knight for the first time in a while on Saturday night and decided that - despite how much I love his performance - Ledger could be replaced.

I feel like it's always easy to say that.

Yeah, looking back on it, if you took another actor who'd seen what Ledger had done, there's plenty of guys who could imitate him and give it the same level of performance. But I think there's something to be said for how Ledger crafted the character himself. I'd be hard-pressed to say that another actor could have come to the script fresh and built the same sort of performance he did.

Then again, there's plenty of fantastic roles where you could look back and say "Oh, so-and-so could have done just as well". But they didn't. So.... Who cares?

 

[moonmaster]

Ledger wasn't the end-all be-all of actors, there are tons of actors out there who are better. That being said, I totally agree that he hit on something really particular that would be nearly impossible for any other actor - no matter how great they are - to get to again. But I've decided that I'd rather have a somewhat less impressively portrayed Joker than no Joker at all. He's too good of a character and I don't think he has to be sealed off just because of Ledger's death.

 

[Zombipanda]

Ledger wasn't the end-all be-all of actors, there are tons of actors out there who are better. That being said, I totally agree that he hit on something really particular that would be nearly impossible for any other actor - no matter how great they are - to get to again. But I've decided that I'd rather have a somewhat less impressively portrayed Joker than no Joker at all. He's too good of a character and I don't think he has to be sealed off just because of Ledger's death.

I disagree. Where do you go with the Joker from there? Even without Ledger's performance, the script basically told a Joker story that any subsequent film versions just won't be able to do justice with. It's not just an issue of the actor. Just because we don't see the Joker doesn't mean we can't feel his presence in sequels.

In fact (and this is going to sound terrible), I think Ledger's death can enhance the intimidating factor of the Joker. We know he's out there, we see his impact on the city, but we never see him. He's this sort of legendary bogeyman. Some of the truly horrendous freaks and killers try to get shipped into Arkham, just so they can be in his company. And Batman's a fugitive now. He can't get in to see the Joker if he wanted to. I think we should kill the idea of doing that Hannibal Lecter type thang with the Joker, with Batman, consulting with him at Arkham and everything. No, he's the Invisible Master now, guru to this new breed of costumed psychotics, and we honestly have no idea what he's up to.

I don't know. I picture Batman infiltrating a newly rebuilt Arkham Asylum. The Joker's not held where he's supposed to be, and it appears he's being kept in a cushy set of offices downstairs, under heavy guard, where he's treated like a Prince, consulted by the staff, visited by inmates. And, as a fugitive, with no friends left in the Justice Department, what can he possibly do? We don't have to see the Joker. Knowing he's there is enough.

 

[Volunteer Fire Detective]

Overall ... incredibly predictable Oscars. Almost ridiculously so. Still, some nice moments; I really liked that Kate Winslet won, she was fantastic in The Reader; and of course Heath Ledger's family accepting his award was easily the best moment of the night, whether you liked Ledger or not (I personally could never decide between him, RDJ, and Michael Shannon for the win).

I will say it's a little ridiculous that Slumdog won eight Oscars. It was good, but it wasn't that good (although I know there are several people here who would disagree with me). I'm glad Danny Boyle won Best Director, but I don't think it's nearly the best movie of the year. And to win eight Oscars? Just seems a little over-the-top. That's as many as, for example, Amadeus, which I think we can all agree is a masterpiece on a par far above Slumdog. But I digress.

But yeah, great Oscars. Hugh Jackman was tremendous, and the musical numbers weren't actually mind-numbingly awful ("I didn't see The Reader!" :lol; in fact, the first, with the cardboard sets and stuff, was really entertaining. I only wish that he had been used more; he had a crazy energy, and obviously loved being up on the stage. I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of him in coming Oscars.

 

[moonmaster]

I disagree. Where do you go with the Joker from there? Even without Ledger's performance, the script basically told a Joker story that any subsequent film versions just won't be able to do justice with. It's not just an issue of the actor. Just because we don't see the Joker doesn't mean we can't feel his presence in sequels.

In fact (and this is going to sound terrible), I think Ledger's death can enhance the intimidating factor of the Joker. We know he's out there, we see his impact on the city, but we never see him. He's this sort of legendary bogeyman. Some of the truly horrendous freaks and killers try to get shipped into Arkham, just so they can be in his company. And Batman's a fugitive now. He can't get in to see the Joker if he wanted to. I think we should kill the idea of doing that Hannibal Lecter type thang with the Joker, with Batman, consulting with him at Arkham and everything. No, he's the Invisible Master now, guru to this new breed of costumed psychotics, and we honestly have no idea what he's up to.

I don't know. I picture Batman infiltrating a newly rebuilt Arkham Asylum. The Joker's not held where he's supposed to be, and it appears he's being kept in a cushy set of offices downstairs, under heavy guard, where he's treated like a Prince, consulted by the staff, visited by inmates. And, as a fugitive, with no friends left in the Justice Department, what can he possibly do? We don't have to see the Joker. Knowing he's there is enough.

Oh, I know. I believe I've suggested the same thing: The Joker changes everything, Gotham is overrun with costumed criminals, even a gang of Joker groupie types. (Led by Harley Quinn of course) But I could see things going either way, or even both ways. (The Joker makes a few Hannibal Lecter jailhouse appearances and then is broken out in time to cause some havoc in the finale.)

Whatever happens, I think the whole idea of his presence and influence permeating the film will most definitely happen, I just don't think that rules out him making some appearance. He's just too great.

"I think you and I are destined to do this forever." C'mon!

But yeah, great Oscars. Hugh Jackman was tremendous, and the musical numbers weren't actually mind-numbingly awful ("I didn't see The Reader!" :lol; in fact, the first, with the cardboard sets and stuff, was really entertaining. I only wish that he had been used more; he had a crazy energy, and obviously loved being up on the stage. I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of him in coming Oscars.

I hope they bring him back.

Imagine showing that opening number to a comics fan a decade or two ago and then telling them that this is the guy who they cast as Wolverine.

 

[SSJmole]

even a gang of Joker groupie types. (Led by Harley Quinn of course)

Yet when I said that everyone said the idea sucked.

 

[Zombipanda]

Oh, I know. I believe I've suggested the same thing: The Joker changes everything, Gotham is overrun with costumed criminals, even a gang of Joker groupie types. (Led by Harley Quinn of course) But I could see things going either way, or even both ways. (The Joker makes a few Hannibal Lecter jailhouse appearances and then is broken out in time to cause some havoc in the finale.)

Eh, the jailbreak angle seems a little too formulaic for me. And I don't like the idea of Harley (or whoever) just being psychopathic groupies. I feel like the Joker will be more threatening as the unseen presence, heard maybe, the consequences of his actions seen, but kept behind the curtain.

Whatever happens, I think the whole idea of his presence and influence permeating the film will most definitely happen, I just don't think that rules out him making some appearance. He's just too great.

See. I think he's too great a character to make a full come-back.

Yet when I said that everyone said the idea sucked.

If it's any consolation, I think it still kind of sucks. But I guess it always comes down to execution.

 

[Planet-man]

I disagree. Where do you go with the Joker from there? Even without Ledger's performance, the script basically told a Joker story that any subsequent film versions just won't be able to do justice with. It's not just an issue of the actor.

This isn't a reason not to bring him back at all. Your only issue here is that you're afraid his return won't be as good as his role in the past film. The bottom line is that there's a very good chance it would be.

I don't get why people have so little faith in the writers of this movie. I was hearing the same complaints after Batman Begins. It's possible to do daunting things. Period. Bring back the Joker.

Just because we don't see the Joker doesn't mean we can't feel his presence in sequels.

That'll be about as satisfying as having a relationship with somebody over the phone.

I(and I think, the majority of filmgoers) don't care about feeling his presence without him there. It's the character I want to see. I can feel his presence in a lot of movies. This is the only one he can actually be in.

In fact (and this is going to sound terrible), I think Ledger's death can enhance the intimidating factor of the Joker. We know he's out there, we see his impact on the city, but we never see him. He's this sort of legendary bogeyman.

This doesn't work after we've already spent an entire movie in close company with him. If it had been the other way around, sure.

I want the Joker back because it's the only place we can get him right now and there are millions of places his character can and should go and was going to before something that happened in another dimension decided to affect the story.

The absolute bottom line is that If Ledger was still alive, there would be nobody clamoring for him to not return, that the movie would be better without him. This being the case, there's no reason not to follow through with their plans and tell the great story they had in mind.

In fact, after Benjamin Button plus the next two years of developing technology, they could push the envelope even further by putting Ledger's actual face on Franco or Daniel Day-Lewis, making film history and mass interest yet again.

 

[Volunteer Fire Detective]

The absolute bottom line is that If Ledger was still alive, there would be nobody clamoring for him to not return, that the movie would be better without him. This being the case, there's no reason not to follow through with their plans and tell the great story they had in mind.

I don't understand this argument. The fact is, Ledger did die, and as much as we would like to think differently, no one - and I repeat no one - can replace him. It's not even a matter of talent. No matter who did it, no matter how good they might be, they will be compared to Ledger, and unfavorably to boot. Everyone will be talking less about the movie and more about how unsuccessfully the new guy did Ledger's Joker. And that's another problem - whoever they get is just going to have to mime Ledger's ingenious portrayal; anything less, anything deviating from that, and the fans would go berserk. So the performance would either be (a) an unsuccessful caricature of a great performance, or (b) an unnecessary departure from said performance simply for the sake of distancing it. In other words - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Also, I really, really don't think that pasting Ledger's face onto DDL or some other actor would work, at all. It would just feel ... wrong. I don't know, something about the very notion unsettles me.

I don't think Ledger can be replaced. I don't think he should be. I think the very notion is silly, and even if it wasn't, I can't conceive of a way it could be done without feeling gimmicky or forced. Mention him. Show the effects the Joker had on Gotham. But that's it. Anything more and I just can't see it working.

 

[Langsta]

They might not have given the award to Heath Ledger had he not died; they basically did it just to "honor" him one last time, since he didn't get the award for Brokeback Mountain a few years ago. Like how Scorsese got snubbed every year until The Departed - The Departed wasn't necessarily his best film, but they figured it was about time he got the award. In Ledger's case, the Joker is probably his best performance, but it wasn't necessarily the best out of the nominees.

And **** Slumdog Millionaire!

 

[Planet-man]

Edit: We should probably take this to the Dark Knight or Batman 3 thread rather than derail this one.

I don't understand this argument. The fact is, Ledger did die, and as much as we would like to think differently, no one - and I repeat no one - can replace him.

But that's the thing - I think they can. I think it's possible. I disagree with your opinion.

Everyone will be talking less about the movie and more about how unsuccessfully the new guy did Ledger's Joker.

So far I think I'm the only one whose arguments are based on hopes, possibilities, and present-evidence and not predictions of the future passed off as solid facts.

And if you can say "how unsuccessfully", I can just as easily say "how very successfully".

But we don't know, because it's years away. So I'll look at what we do know and say that the actor-drama somewhat overshadowed The Dark Knight too, but it didn't end up being a problem, for most people anyway.

So the performance would either be (a) an unsuccessful caricature of a great performance, or (b) an unnecessary departure from said performance simply for the sake of distancing it.

Or the very obviously possible (c) a successful and revolutionary continuation of that performance that makes you feel like you're watching the same guy.

You know.

ACTING.

 

[ProjectX2]

I want Brett Ratner to direct that Joker spinoff with Robert Downey, Jr. as The Joker. After X-Men 3 and Rush Hour 3, he can do no wrong.

 

[Zombipanda]

I want Brett Ratner to direct that Joker spinoff with Robert Downey, Jr. as The Joker. After X-Men 3 and Rush Hour 3, he can do no wrong.

****ing hack.

McG directing, with Jason Statham as the Joker, and Cameron Diaz as Harley Quinn.