Mario Timeline

[Rojinn]

So, you go with the version where Mario was born in the 40s?

 

[Rojinn]

Diddy Kong Racing

Wouldn'tbit be more logical to place this before Banjo-Kazooie, cause iirc it was set before Banjo even met Kazooie? Or is that due to Dixie Kong's age in Diddy Kong Racing DS? If so, couldn't both games be very similar events happening twice on the timeline, one with Banjo & Conker, and one... after Conker was unfit for driving?

Speaking of Banjo-Kazooie, will ylu include Nuts'n'Bolts?

 

[stphylcccs]

So, you go with the version where Mario was born in the 40s?

Yeah, seems pretty sound to me. Again, there’s the theory that Power Stars extend youth-span which is IMO the most sound theory as to how they’ve been around so long based purely off evidence in Galaxy, so Mario and co being ~80 doesn’t seem that far-fetched to me. What has been horrendous though, is dating Bananza.

At first I thought it was obviously a prequel since… well… Baby Pauline, and that we were playing as Cranky Kong/DK I. However Cranky Kong is in Bananza. And Diddy Kong. And Dixie Kong. Clearly DK III. Then I presumed it was a sequel to Odyssey and we were dealing with Pauline Jr (again, not that far-fetched - especially since it’s established teen-Pauline has a grandmother who was also called Pauline), but after actually looking into the story of the game this didn’t really sit well with me either. The biggest reason for this is the lack of red scaffolding around New Donk City, which has, since (presumably) Donkey Kong Arcade, been a staple of New Donk, meaning it would have to be a prequel… with Cranky Kong. So I’m pretty sure that the Donkey Kong aspects of New Donk were only really added once DK was well established as a hero, not a villain. This could very well be Bananza, since this would be DK’s first global act of heroism. This also means teen-Pauline is Mayor Pauline, thus Mayor Pauline is not Lady from DK Arcade. This is supported by the fact that graffiti in Odyssey depict Lady as having blonde hair, not brown hair. This also doesn’t create continuity issues with Odyssey, since Pauline is thankfully vague enough in describing the Kong-related event of her past as simply being kidnapped by a gorilla when they were younger, which would be just before Bananza (also supported by “younger” which probably wouldn’t be used if Pauline used Power Stars to stay young - establishing Power Stars are mainly only used in the Mushroom Kingdom and Sarasa, as well as given out by people affiliated with the Mushroom Kingdom). This would imply that Lady is Pauline’s grandmother, and there is an unseen generation between the two. Logistically, this Places Bananza in the mid-‘90s to give Pauline enough time to age from 13 to adulthood by Mario vs Donkey Kong in 2004, while still allowing for Diddy Kong to begin dating Dixie Kong after the events of DK Country, and requires the unseen Pauline generation to most likely be born before DK Arcade (irrelevant to the overall timeline, just wanted to mention it). Due to Pauline’s involvement in Mario vs Donkey Kong, which takes place in the Mushroom Kingdom, they most likely start receiving Power Stars around this time, which is how they appear the same age in Odyssey, as in MvDK, which occurs ~10 years prior - by being as generous as possible this would make Pauline 23 in MvDK and 35 in Odyssey, thus requiring Power Stars to be used. Based on the fact Pauline seems to be used to adult-life by MvDK (and the fact that DK becomes infatuated with her - which is strange now that he knew her when she was 13 and he was fully matured, but this is what happens when you try and make prequels that misalign with very specific spin-off franchises) I’m assuming Bananza is at least a month after Country, to give Diddy and Dixie enough time to start dating.

The one game that tried to fix the DK timeline ended up nearly breaking it, ironic

 

[stphylcccs]

Yeah, seems pretty sound to me. Again, there’s the theory that Power Stars extend youth-span which is IMO the most sound theory as to how they’ve been around so long based purely off evidence in Galaxy, so Mario and co being ~80 doesn’t seem that far-fetched to me. What has been horrendous though, is dating Bananza.

At first I thought it was obviously a prequel since… well… Baby Pauline, and that we were playing as Cranky Kong/DK I. However Cranky Kong is in Bananza. And Diddy Kong. And Dixie Kong. Clearly DK III. Then I presumed it was a sequel to Odyssey and we were dealing with Pauline Jr (again, not that far-fetched - especially since it’s established teen-Pauline has a grandmother who was also called Pauline), but after actually looking into the story of the game this didn’t really sit well with me either. The biggest reason for this is the lack of red scaffolding around New Donk City, which has, since (presumably) Donkey Kong Arcade, been a staple of New Donk, meaning it would have to be a prequel… with Cranky Kong. So I’m pretty sure that the Donkey Kong aspects of New Donk were only really added once DK was well established as a hero, not a villain. This could very well be Bananza, since this would be DK’s first global act of heroism. This also means teen-Pauline is Mayor Pauline, thus Mayor Pauline is not Lady from DK Arcade. This is supported by the fact that graffiti in Odyssey depict Lady as having blonde hair, not brown hair. This also doesn’t create continuity issues with Odyssey, since Pauline is thankfully vague enough in describing the Kong-related event of her past as simply being kidnapped by a gorilla when they were younger, which would be just before Bananza (also supported by “younger” which probably wouldn’t be used if Pauline used Power Stars to stay young - establishing Power Stars are mainly only used in the Mushroom Kingdom and Sarasa, as well as given out by people affiliated with the Mushroom Kingdom). This would imply that Lady is Pauline’s grandmother, and there is an unseen generation between the two. Logistically, this Places Bananza in the mid-‘90s to give Pauline enough time to age from 13 to adulthood by Mario vs Donkey Kong in 2004, while still allowing for Diddy Kong to begin dating Dixie Kong after the events of DK Country, and requires the unseen Pauline generation to most likely be born before DK Arcade (irrelevant to the overall timeline, just wanted to mention it). Due to Pauline’s involvement in Mario vs Donkey Kong, which takes place in the Mushroom Kingdom, they most likely start receiving Power Stars around this time, which is how they appear the same age in Odyssey, as in MvDK, which occurs ~10 years prior - by being as generous as possible this would make Pauline 23 in MvDK and 35 in Odyssey, thus requiring Power Stars to be used. Based on the fact Pauline seems to be used to adult-life by MvDK (and the fact that DK becomes infatuated with her - which is strange now that he knew her when she was 13 and he was fully matured, but this is what happens when you try and make prequels that misalign with very specific spin-off franchises) I’m assuming Bananza is at least a month after Country, to give Diddy and Dixie enough time to start dating.

The one game that tried to fix the DK timeline ended up nearly breaking it, ironic

Reading back, I kinda just go on a massive tangent for no reason - it made sense in my head, though is probably better suited as its own message

 

[stphylcccs]

Wouldn'tbit be more logical to place this before Banjo-Kazooie, cause iirc it was set before Banjo even met Kazooie? Or is that due to Dixie Kong's age in Diddy Kong Racing DS? If so, couldn't both games be very similar events happening twice on the timeline, one with Banjo & Conker, and one... after Conker was unfit for driving?

Honestly, I based a lot of this off a 5 hour timeline video, and they went into detail about any placement that may be disagreed upon. I’ll have to check, though there were much smaller things that didn’t get oversights in that video

 

[stphylcccs]

They have DKRacing where it is since Tiny Kong has just matured by this time. I also don’t see any reason to assume Banjo and Kazooie haven’t met yet, one of them just isn’t absent in the game

 

[stphylcccs]

I remember a theory that Banjo-Pilot is actually an in-universe game developed by Klungo. Thoughts?

Source? I don’t see any reason for this, though I’d be interested to see the evidence

 

[Rojinn]

Yeah, seems pretty sound to me. Again, there’s the theory that Power Stars extend youth-span which is IMO the most sound theory as to how they’ve been around so long based purely off evidence in Galaxy, so Mario and co being ~80 doesn’t seem that far-fetched to me. What has been horrendous though, is dating Bananza.

At first I thought it was obviously a prequel since… well… Baby Pauline, and that we were playing as Cranky Kong/DK I. However Cranky Kong is in Bananza. And Diddy Kong. And Dixie Kong. Clearly DK III. Then I presumed it was a sequel to Odyssey and we were dealing with Pauline Jr (again, not that far-fetched - especially since it’s established teen-Pauline has a grandmother who was also called Pauline), but after actually looking into the story of the game this didn’t really sit well with me either. The biggest reason for this is the lack of red scaffolding around New Donk City, which has, since (presumably) Donkey Kong Arcade, been a staple of New Donk, meaning it would have to be a prequel… with Cranky Kong. So I’m pretty sure that the Donkey Kong aspects of New Donk were only really added once DK was well established as a hero, not a villain. This could very well be Bananza, since this would be DK’s first global act of heroism. This also means teen-Pauline is Mayor Pauline, thus Mayor Pauline is not Lady from DK Arcade. This is supported by the fact that graffiti in Odyssey depict Lady as having blonde hair, not brown hair. This also doesn’t create continuity issues with Odyssey, since Pauline is thankfully vague enough in describing the Kong-related event of her past as simply being kidnapped by a gorilla when they were younger, which would be just before Bananza (also supported by “younger” which probably wouldn’t be used if Pauline used Power Stars to stay young - establishing Power Stars are mainly only used in the Mushroom Kingdom and Sarasa, as well as given out by people affiliated with the Mushroom Kingdom). This would imply that Lady is Pauline’s grandmother, and there is an unseen generation between the two. Logistically, this Places Bananza in the mid-‘90s to give Pauline enough time to age from 13 to adulthood by Mario vs Donkey Kong in 2004, while still allowing for Diddy Kong to begin dating Dixie Kong after the events of DK Country, and requires the unseen Pauline generation to most likely be born before DK Arcade (irrelevant to the overall timeline, just wanted to mention it). Due to Pauline’s involvement in Mario vs Donkey Kong, which takes place in the Mushroom Kingdom, they most likely start receiving Power Stars around this time, which is how they appear the same age in Odyssey, as in MvDK, which occurs ~10 years prior - by being as generous as possible this would make Pauline 23 in MvDK and 35 in Odyssey, thus requiring Power Stars to be used. Based on the fact Pauline seems to be used to adult-life by MvDK (and the fact that DK becomes infatuated with her - which is strange now that he knew her when she was 13 and he was fully matured, but this is what happens when you try and make prequels that misalign with very specific spin-off franchises) I’m assuming Bananza is at least a month after Country, to give Diddy and Dixie enough time to start dating.

The one game that tried to fix the DK timeline ended up nearly breaking it, ironic

Hm, two things. First, I am more convinced that Bananza is set some years after Oddyssey. Weak evidence, yeah, but the New Donk License Plates have the year 2025 on them (in Oddyssey it was 1981, though I highly doubt that's the imtended year, just has to be some time later). I take this for Bananza to take place in 2025+, and Pauline in that game is either the daughter or granddaughter of Mayor Pauline. The latter's kidnapping by a Kong was seen in Donkey Kong for the GB. Yes, I think that Lady ≠ Mayor Pauline ≠ Young Pauline. More on that when I finally translate from german / write out my personal Mario headcanon.

Secondly, I'm not convinced that Mario ages slower. I think all his adventures took place from 1980/1981 (to reconcile the Mario is 24/25 statement from 2005) to present day. Works kinda well... mostly. SimCity's 1961 Bowser in Tokyo gave me a headache. Yeah, even though I did not like the two Marios theory at first, there is some stuff that actually works better that way, so it's at the moment my headcanon. Sorry to not go into more detail, I'll give a more detailed answer another time ^^

 

[Rojinn]

Source? I don’t see any reason for this, though I’d be interested to see the evidence

I'll have to look for that ^^

 

[Rojinn]

They have DKRacing where it is since Tiny Kong has just matured by this time. I also don’t see any reason to assume Banjo and Kazooie haven’t met yet, one of them just isn’t absent in the game

It's actually from Banjo's official description:

Even before the start of his future partnership with Kazooie, Banjo isn't one to turn down the chance of an adventure. So when Squawks brings the message from his pal Diddy Kong, the Honey Bear stuffs a few things into his trusty backpack and takes to his heels.

 

[Rojinn]

I'll have to look for that ^^

Found it, it was a german video about the Banjo-Kazooie Timeline. I'll quickly watch it and translate the relevant part

 

[Rojinn]

Found it, it was a german video about the Banjo-Kazooie Timeline. I'll quickly watch it and translate the relevant part

Firstly, damn, that video is 10 yrs old...

Secondly, here's the relevant part (roughly):

It's important to look at the last thing Klungo said to Gruntilda when leaving her. He wanted to work at a desk and potentially develop dumb games. He worked on that, and thus, Banjo-Pilot was made. [...] The reason [for this theory] is the character selection. There are characters in the game that [Banjo and Kazooie] meet for the first time in Banjo-Tooie, but also the original Gruntilda, still with her green body, is present. That's the reason why Banjo-Pilot couldn't happen in the lives of Banjo and Kazooie. Thus, to fit it in regardless, the game was programmed by Klungo. And hey, it even works with the next entry. [...] After Banjo-Tooie and Klungo's first try at programming, many years passed. Then, Banjo-Kazooie Nuts'n'Bolts followed. [...] Klungo opened his own arcade with own games in this game. Although he practiced with Banjo-Pilot, his arcade games weren't really that good.

Honestly, don't think that holds that much ground and can be disregarded, the memory just popped into my head when I read that games' title. Sorry ^^"