007 Chronological Viewing Order

Yes, you are misremembering. Probably you are cofusing me with someon else. I haven't really argued with anyone in this thread for the moment. The only things I have said are:
-"So, you are going with the multiple Bonds idea?" in page 1
-"It would actually be very cool if Earth-66 would be the Spyverse" in page 2
-"Ugh, I have hidden the Watchmen and V for Vendetta threads to not heard of Alan Moore and now he comes out here, great..." and "There is some video game universe out there" in page 3.
-And the comment you are quoting.
Apologies, it's me vs everyone on here right now so it's hard to recall who said what.
 
If he's brainwashed to believe he's Bond, he shouldn't be aware of "the other fellow" or that "this never happened to him" etc.
The brainwashing may not have started until sometime after Lazenby. Moore, Brosnan and Dalton may have started it OR even Craig.
 
What would be the point in that? Anyway, I think something like that happens in the non-canonical Casino Royale film from 1967.
What's the point in any of this? It's called having fun, something I think has been lost in recent years with fiction. Star Wars, DC, Marvel now 007 - everyone takes all of this stuff SO seriously and everyone gets very gatekeepy. The divisions within fandom is unlike anything I've ever seen and it nearly ruins the entire thing for me.

People act as if we are talking politics and religion when we are talking about pure fiction. Perspective people.
 
Nice, still bringing in other franchises to make your point. Ever hear of "whataboutisms"?

Regardless, what would be the problem with someone wanting to believe this about Batman? It's all fiction you know.
That's not a whataboutism. Whataboutism is bringing up a separate issue to deflect the argument. I'm bringing up the exact same situation in a different franchise as a comparison utilising the exact same rules you yourself established. If you can accept that Bruce Wayne is the same person, then you should be able to accept James Bond. Recasts are normal and no matter the franchise, the specifics don't change.

Oh, but the DC universe has lots of weird, magical sci-fi stuff. It's totally possible, actually certain, that Alfred is kidnapping these men and turning them into Batman. Definitely. ;)

It was never my intention for this to happen, but some people really like to argue. It's exhausting, but since I started this thread, I feel obligated to reply to everyone.
I apologise that you feel that way. I don't want you to feel overwhelmed and exhausted, but we're just arguing our points here.
 
No, I purposed that idea, but I never said I believed it or that it's canon. In fact, I outright said that it wasn't canon. He's not a timelord either haha, it's a recast. Something quite common in fiction actually. If anyone said he's a timelord, they were joking. I personally don't think you even need to assume he's got anything special going on. Here's an old quote from timeline discussion by me:

As for Bond's age, this is speculative, but if we apply Bond's age from the Moonraker novel (37) to the film timeline, we can apply that to every other film. It's not canon, but it's certainly interesting how well it plays out. The Bond films simply occur from his 20s all the way to his early 60s. It's not unbelievable in the realm of fiction. We can just apply this to the other characters in the series, like Monnypenny, Leiter, maybe Q and M, whatever seems the most reasonable compared to Bond's age.

1962 - Dr. No (Age 21)
1963 - From Russia with Love (Age 22)
1964 - Goldfinger (Age 23)
1965 - Thunderbolt (Age 24)
1966 - You Only Live Twice (Age 25)
1969 - On Her Majesty's Secret Service (Age 28)
1971 - Diamonds Are Forever (Age 30)
1973 - Live and Let Die (Age 32)
1974 - The Man with the Golden Gun (Age 33)
1977 - The Spy Who Loved Me (Age 36)
1978 - Moonraker (Age 37)
1980 - For Your Eyes Only (Age 39)
1982 - Octopussy (Prologue) (Age 41)
1983 - Octopussy (Age 42)
1985 - A View to a Kill (Age 44)
1987 - GoldenEye (Prologue) (Age 46)
1987 - The Living Daylights (Age 46)
1989 - Licence to Kill (Age 48)
1996 - GoldenEye (Age 55)
1997 - Tomorrow Never Dies (Age 56)
1999 - The World Is Not Enough (Age 58)
2001 - Die Another Day (Prologue) (Age 60)
2002 - Die Another Day (Age 61)
"It's not unbelievable in the realm of fiction."

So what exactly IS unbelievable to you in the realm of fiction?
 
What's the point in any of this? It's called having fun, something I think has been lost in recent years with fiction. Star Wars, DC, Marvel now 007 - everyone takes all of this stuff SO seriously and everyone gets very gatekeepy. The divisions within fandom is unlike anything I've ever seen and it nearly ruins the entire thing for me.

People act as if we are talking politics and religion when we are talking about pure fiction. Perspective people.
What's the point in saying that there's two identical universes, one where the 1962-2002 films are one person and one where the 1962-2021 films are a codename? I asked what's the point because that's a little redundant.

"It's not unbelievable in the realm of fiction."

So what exactly IS unbelievable to you in the realm of fiction?
I was clearly implying that Bond being 21-61 is more believable than him being 100 years old. I was pointing out how, if you make this assumption based on that one novel, his age isn't actually a problem and makes a lot of sense.
 
That's not a whataboutism. Whataboutism is bringing up a separate issue to deflect the argument. I'm bringing up the exact same situation in a different franchise as a comparison utilising the exact same rules you yourself established. If you can accept that Bruce Wayne is the same person, then you should be able to accept James Bond. Recasts are normal and no matter the franchise, the specifics don't change.

Oh, but the DC universe has lots of weird, magical sci-fi stuff. It's totally possible, actually certain, that Alfred is kidnapping these men and turning them into Batman. Definitely. ;)


I apologise that you feel that way. I don't want you to feel overwhelmed and exhausted, but we're just arguing our points here.
Why are you assuming I accept Bruce Wayne as the same person? I never said I did, and in fact I don't. And saying "what about Batman! Or The MCU!" isn't a whataboutism?? We are talking about the 007 franchise. Not every franchise is equal and go by the same "rules".

Your second sentence is just plain patronizing. You can cut out the rudeness as it adds nothing to the conversation. Anything is possible in fiction, but the "actually certain" part is just stupid and you know it.
 
What's the point in saying that there's two identical universes, one where the 1962-2002 films are one person and one where the 1962-2021 films are a codename? I asked what's the point because that's a little redundant.


I was clearly implying that Bond being 21-61 is more believable than him being 100 years old. I was pointing out how, if you make this assumption based on that one novel, his age isn't actually a problem and makes a lot of sense.
So what if it's redundant to you? This is all fiction. If I want to believe Bond is a code-name, I can. If you want to believe it's the same guy, you can. The possibilities are endless because this isn't real life. Ya'll like to suck the joy out of everything.

I agree that Bond being 21-61 makes sense within the universe established in 007. But he could just as well be different dudes. Nothing unrealistic about either IMO.
 
Why are you assuming I accept Bruce Wayne as the same person? I never said I did, and in fact I don't. And saying "what about Batman! Or The MCU!" isn't a whataboutism?? We are talking about the 007 franchise. Not every franchise is equal and go by the same "rules".
So you decide which franchises work on which rules? How is that more consistent? What proof do you have that this franchise works any differently? It's not a whataboutism because I don't try and decide for myself what works and what doesn't, I follow the common trends of fiction. I try and apply things to other franchises to see if they work because that's how consistency works.

Your second sentence is just plain patronizing. You can cut out the rudeness as it adds nothing to the conversation. Anything is possible in fiction, but the "actually certain" part is just stupid and you know it.
I was just trying to inject a bit of sarcastic humour into my comment. I suppose it was a bit too direct and targeted at you, which is a bit mean. I'm sorry.

So what if it's redundant to you? This is all fiction. If I want to believe Bond is a code-name, I can. If you want to believe it's the same guy, you can. The possibilities are endless because this isn't real life. Ya'll like to suck the joy out of everything.

I agree that Bond being 21-61 makes sense within the universe established in 007. But he could just as well be different dudes. Nothing unrealistic about either IMO.
You are allowed to have a head-canon, as is anyone else. Heck, Bond being 21-61 is a head-canon. We're really just arguing which head-canon works better with the intended official canon. I think that Bond was intended to be one person across the films when they were being made, and that's based on the references to previous films, the scripts, the comic adaptation, and the novels. That doesn't mean I'm trying to tell you that you can't interpret the fiction in any way that you want to. That's literally what death of the author is. I'm not policing your personal interpretations and what you have fun with.

Literally, I was just suggesting that the first 20 James Bond films are part of the same universe as Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman because George Lazenby appears as James Bond in a reunion movie for The Man from U.N.C.L.E.
 
Let me prove that it's the same guy from 1962 to 2002.
"Firstly, the dates in the films do place them definitely in their release years. Don't worry, that has a solution that doesn't involve super serums or anything, lol."

No "solution" is needed. That is an assumption on you part, and in fact is you ignoring on-screen evidence to make YOUR theory work. Also, so what if someone wants to believe in the timelord, super soldier, <insert fictional idea here> theory? IT'S ALL FICTION!!!

"James Bond (George Lazenby) meets Blofeld for "the first time" after meeting him in the previous film (played by Sean Connery). This is because On Her Majesty's Secret Service was their first meeting in book canon. Bond was wearing a Japanese disguise in the previous film, so I guess Blofeld didn't recognise him (?)."
There is nothing in the film that states Bond and Blofeld meet "For the first time". The following exchange proves this: "But, sir, Blofeld´s something of a must with me." M: "You´ve had two years to run him down." If Bond never met him, he wouldn't be "something of a must" for him. I think M, Q, MoneyPenny, Bond, Felix and Blofeld are all aliases because "super secret spy stuff" and so far nothing in the films I've seen contradicts this idea.

"In On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969), James Bond marries Tracy in 1969, where she is killed in a drive-by shortly afterwards."

Yes, I've seen the movie.

"In For Your Eyes Only (1981), Bond (Roger Moore) takes flowers to Tracy's grave (George Lazenby's wife). The gravestone states that died in 1969."

I'm aware of this, have not seen it yet, but I'm aware that Moore Bond visits Tracy's grave. Moore Bond may have known her or even been in attendance at Lazenby Bond's wedding for all we know. Friends of family visit graves of people they know. I know this because of personal experience.

"In the script and comic adaptation, it states that Bond and "Blofeld" last met 10 years ago, which matches with Diamonds are Forever (1971), starring Sean Connery."

Cool. Connery Bond met Blofeld in 1971. Moore Bond then meets him 10 years later. Nothing changes the idea that "Bond" is a code-name here.

"There's other connections between these three Bonds but this definitely places them in a single timeline.""

Yes, I agree there are connections between Connery Bond, Lazenby Bond and Moore Bond and I also agree it's one singular timeline that spans from 1962 - 2021.

"In License to Kill (1989), it's mentioned that Bond (Timothy Dalton) married once, and it's a sore subject, tying in continuity from previous Bonds."

Married to who exactly? Dalton Bond could have been married to another person for all the audience knows. Also, Dalton Bond somehow de-ages from Moore's Bond. How does that work?

"In The World Is Not Enough (1999), Bond (Pierce Brosnan) avoids the question of if he ever lost someone he loved, once again bringing Tracy up as a continuity nod."

How do we know Brosnan Bond was married to a girl named Tracy? Does the film show that or make it clear who he's referring to? Everyone loses loved ones. This changes nothing.

"Further, Bond's family motto mentioned in On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969), "the world is not enough", is referenced, although that was taken from Sir Thomas Bond, a real person.
""

You answered your own point here. Also, part of the backstory given to each Bond could include the motto.

"In Die Another Day (2002), we get a scene with various gadgets and references to previous Bond films, suggesting that they are all part of the same history as that film."

Same timeline, yes I agree.

"Additionally, certain characters are recast even within a single Bond's series, or they stay the same actor even between Bonds."
Codenames. Remember, this is a fictional super top secret spy world where lasers exist. Codenames aren't out of the realm of possibility....in fact M and Q show there's precedent for them!

"To say that a different Bond is a new continuity would essentially make most of Sean Connery's films different universes too, if we assume that a recast means a different reality."
They could be. Ever hear of a multiverse? I'm not even opposed to this idea. Never Say Never Again is clearly a different timeline since it's a remake of Thunderball. So that Bond is a variant of the original.

"We know that's not the case though"
Speak for yourself!

"so logically every film is a shared timeline until the explicit continuity reboot."

This sounds so pretentious in the way you word it, but I agree it's one single timeline.

And there we have it, you have proven nothing. You simply shared facts that can be observed by anyone who watches the films for themselves. What conclusions people come to is not for you to decide!
 
Literally, I was just suggesting that the first 20 James Bond films are part of the same universe as Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman because George Lazenby appears as James Bond in a reunion movie for The Man from U.N.C.L.E.
Ugh SO much to reply to.

"So you decide which franchises work on which rules?"
No. I watch the content and let it speak for itself. However, I am fully aware that head-canon is a thing (James Gunn agrees) and that since we are talking fiction, things are malleable. There is literally no harm in coming up with fan theories and using one's imagination when enjoying FICTION.

"How is that more consistent?"
Why are you assuming there needs to be consistency among different worlds of fiction?

"What proof do you have that this franchise works any differently?"
I, like you, take the content for what it is and apply the logic within that particular world and hold it up to itself. The "proof" is in the content. We seem to disagree on the "proof" (see OHMSS).

"It's not a whataboutism because I don't try and decide for myself what works and what doesn't"
Essentially, you said "what about Batman or MCU recasts huh??" And even if you did choose to decide for yourself what "works" and what doesn't, it doesn't matter because it's fiction!

"I follow the common trends of fiction."

Like what exactly? Can these trends change? Do you go along with them if they do or are you stuck in your own head?

"I try and apply things to other franchises to see if they work because that's how consistency works."
Sure, if that's your personal goal. Doesn't mean it has to apply to everyone else.

"I was just trying to inject a bit of sarcastic humour into my comment. I suppose it was a bit too direct and targeted at you, which is a bit mean. I'm sorry."

I appreciate this, honestly thank you. It's hard enough taking the time to respond to all of this hostility.

"You are allowed to have a head-canon, as is anyone else."

Thank you for your permission!

"Heck, Bond being 21-61 is a head-canon."

The films never give an age to my knowledge, so yep I agree.

"We're really just arguing which head-canon works better with the intended official canon."

The problem is how can one know for certain what the "intended" or "official" canon is? We all watch the same content and then must decide for ourselves how we interpret the information given. Isn't diversity always being championed as a good thing? Why aren't we using that logic within the realm of fictional stories?

"I think that Bond was intended to be one person across the films when they were being made, and that's based on the references to previous films, the scripts, the comic adaptation, and the novels."

I love that you prefaced with "I think". Good stuff. You are free to think w/e you want like anyone else. We disagree on "intention" because the films themselves never give an explicit answer (unless you count OHMSS like I do).

"That doesn't mean I'm trying to tell you that you can't interpret the fiction in any way that you want to."

Good, now we're getting somewhere. I will say it doesn't feel that way though.

"That's literally what death of the author is."

I never heard of this until now. I think fiction vs non-fiction are very different.

"I'm not policing your personal interpretations and what you have fun with."

Sure feels like it, but I'm glad you don't see it that way.
 
No, I purposed that idea, but I never said I believed it or that it's canon. In fact, I outright said that it wasn't canon. He's not a timelord either haha, it's a recast. Something quite common in fiction actually. If anyone said he's a timelord, they were joking.
It doesn't matter what you believe is or isn't' canon since this is fiction.

And you can't speak for everyone. I've seen Reddit comments that HATE the codename theory but are totally fine/open to the timelord theory "because it's more fun". Totally arbitrary.
 
yeah, cos people who traps people into a table to be cut by a laser is to be taken seriously....

Or surfing on a tsunami to escape a giant laser
What do you mean by "taken seriously"? In the world of 007, it happened and I take it as seriously as any other fictional movie I'm watching.
 

"not in my opinion. Like I'll do an analogy, what you're syaing is that in a video game with 2 endings both are canon, just what you think is right."

Why can't this be the case? It's fiction dude. It never really happened lol

"Nope, one of them MUST be canon."

Why?

"If start with I disagree you're giving me the idea you're just ignoring canon and going into headcannon (which is fine, just say it out loud)."

Nope, I'm watching the films for myself and interpreting them with the only brain I have - my own. You are doing the same thing and we are coming to different conclusions. Happens all of the time with us pesky humans. If calling one's own interpretation of said content "headcannon" is how you define it, then sure, call it headcanon. I've used my head to interpret the evidence. Head-canon!

"i like the idea of the main character using a code-name, infact Bond uses OO7 as the code-name."

I like Taco Bell. Oh yea, I guess 007 is a code-name isn't it? Similar to "Q" and "M".

"until me finally what?"

I guess I got distracted there. Until you admit that this is all fiction and it doesn't matter what anyone believes about it.

"And still it doesn't as their points can be explained with evidence inside the movies themself"

But I believe the evidence points to each Bond being a different guy because of on-screen dialogue spoken by Lazenby. You can ignore that and whatever else you'd like if it makes you feel better with your ideas.

"or going meta with their crew, while you're going with smt that it doesn't exist."

You keep saying smt and I don't know what you mean. The line of dialogue exists. I watched the movie.

"And if you don't like simplicity, let's go with probability, at MAX the code-name theroy can be true at 35%."


It doesn't matter what I like or dislike. The evidence on-screen is what matters to me. And where are you getting this totally arbitrary percentage from? I would think I'm either right or I'm wrong which puts me at 50% either way lol

"still one of them MUST be canon, you can't have both as canon, so again, what are your evidences?"

Alternate timelines exist in fiction bro. I've stated my primary point of evidence time and time again. Let me spell it out slowly. "THIS NEVER HAPPENS TO THE OTHER FELLA".

"And here too it's headcanon"


If that's what you want to call it, have at it bud.

"AKA Headcannon."

Again, if you want to call it that, you can call it that all day long.

"cos they're trained for them, are you telling me that they train "every Bond" to do the hat trick or to eat the same way? (these are serious questions)."

Idk, the films never show us their training now do they? Guess you'll have to come up with your own interpretation - and have fun while doing so, this is all fiction after all. And I wasn't aware Bond "ate a different way" whatever the heck that means lol.

"or more probably (see? The word came back) because it's the same man?"

I guess it's possible, but we are talking fiction sir. If it helps you sleep better believing Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan are the exact same dude - moles and all - then have at it, I hope you get really good sleep tonight.

"so again this isn't canon, but just your headcannon (in this case)."


You can repeat this phrase as many times as you'd like if you think it makes your point for you better. It doesn't prove or dis-prove anything.

"i don't believe in both, tho i have the time lord theory as more probable (oh again) cos it plays with the different actors"


I personally think this is ridiculous, HOWEVER if you think the time lord theory makes more sense within the world portrayed in the 007 films, then more power to you bud.

"the brainwash thing is made by the fans it's like a whole off-screen storyline, so now Goku SSJ5 and more is canon?

Right, the time-lord theory isn't made by fans at all, and in fact there's tons of on-screen evidence to support it....right? I don't watch Dragon Ball.

"Theories are mostly headcannons and never creates storylines.""


A theory is just an idea that is intended to explain facts or events. "Creating storylines" is usually up to the content creators.


"so i can take star trek and have my theory that says that kirk is a kilngon brainwashed into a human?"


You can if there's any actual evidence within the show of that. Nobody here is making stuff up out of nowhere.

"Makes that canon? Nope, tho it can be an headcannon which is FINE."

Sure, I agree you can come up with anything you want bud. Doesn't make it official of course.

"What I'm saying is that you can have fun, but say that it's headcannon in the open, like i believe, that RoboCop, Terminator and the Buffyverse are set in the AVP Universe but ik it's not canon infact i explicity stated that it is my Headcannon in that thread."

Ok here goes - I have come to the conclusion by watching the 007 films that James Bond isn't one man, but multiple different agents. My primary evidence is the line said by Lazenby's Bond when he refers to the previous 007 agent the audience is familiar with. I have used my head to try and properly interpret the canon shown to me on-screen. I therefore admit that by using my own brain to interpret what I have witnessed on-screen is "head-canon". There you go.

You can explicitly believe and state whatever you want friend. It's fiction after all, try not to take it SO seriously.

"which makes more probable the de-aging serum by your own words you resolved yourself your own aging problem, Wondefull!"


I never said the super soldier serum thing wasn't at all probable. I just need to see the evidence that supports it. Is there any you can come up with? I'm open minded.
 
Why are you assuming I accept Bruce Wayne as the same person? I never said I did, and in fact I don't.
I guess it's possible, but we are talking fiction sir. If it helps you sleep better believing Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan are the exact same dude - moles and all - then have at it, I hope you get really good sleep tonight.
@Megatron It's obvious that Mr. Kinard's main issue here is the idea that an actor can replace another as the same character (correct me if I'm wrong though DK). Batman & Robin is part of the same universe as Batman Forever, that is absolutely 100% true and was absolutely the intention and intended canon, not that people can't have their own head-canon about it but still. If someone wants to believe that Batman & Robin happened in a different universe to Batman Forever, they can. It doesn't matter what is objective or not.

Craig's Bond has a whole backstory that includes his birth name being James Bond, it was certainly intended that he was named James Bond at birth and they never bring up the idea that he replaced someone else once, so the intent is that there's no codename thing going on. If there was, it'd be brought up. The M portraits in NTTD makes it a fun theory that reboot Bond is a continuation of the original series though, but you have to make a lot of assumptions for it to work. I do think that's awesome if people wanna do that, but it's tough. Also, there's two video games that show alternate versions of previous films occurring in the reboot universe but set in modern day and with Daniel Craig, suggesting that there's one Bond and that an alternate version of the original timeline films occurred in the reboot universe but with Craig.

If he was intended to be brainwashed, they wouldn't have shown that his birth name is James Bond and had those video games release, regardless of whether they're canon. Personal interpretation doesn't have to adhere to creator intent though, and that's okay. As I said, "Death of the Author" is the ultimate head-canon.
 
But brainwashing is too far out there right?
yes, cos MI6 would not have reasons to do that. And also again:

Smt that happens in the movies vs. smt that doesn't even exist.

Bringing out the Brainwashing thing is equal to say nothing.

You want to have Bond being multiple guys? Sure, but state it is an headcannon, and don't talk like it's official and was always what the writers intended. Cos it isn't by the simple fact that Casino Royale was advertized as a reboot.
 
What's the point in any of this? It's called having fun, something I think has been lost in recent years with fiction. Star Wars, DC, Marvel now 007 - everyone takes all of this stuff SO seriously and everyone gets very gatekeepy. The divisions within fandom is unlike anything I've ever seen and it nearly ruins the entire thing for me.

People act as if we are talking politics and religion when we are talking about pure fiction. Perspective people.
the problem isn't that you're having fun, you can have fun as you want, but there are rules, even in fiction, you can't just treat the bond code-name thing as canon. Tho it can be your headcannon, and what would be the problem with that?
 
@Megatron It's obvious that Mr. Kinard's main issue here is the idea that an actor can replace another as the same character (correct me if I'm wrong though DK). Batman & Robin is part of the same universe as Batman Forever, that is absolutely 100% true and was absolutely the intention and intended canon, not that people can't have their own head-canon about it but still. If someone wants to believe that Batman & Robin happened in a different universe to Batman Forever, they can. It doesn't matter what is objective or not.

Craig's Bond has a whole backstory that includes his birth name being James Bond, it was certainly intended that he was named James Bond at birth and they never bring up the idea that he replaced someone else once, so the intent is that there's no codename thing going on. If there was, it'd be brought up. The M portraits in NTTD makes it a fun theory that reboot Bond is a continuation of the original series though, but you have to make a lot of assumptions for it to work. I do think that's awesome if people wanna do that, but it's tough. Also, there's two video games that show alternate versions of previous films occurring in the reboot universe but set in modern day and with Daniel Craig, suggesting that there's one Bond and that an alternate version of the original timeline films occurred in the reboot universe but with Craig.

If he was intended to be brainwashed, they wouldn't have shown that his birth name is James Bond and had those video games release, regardless of whether they're canon. Personal interpretation doesn't have to adhere to creator intent though, and that's okay. As I said, "Death of the Author" is the ultimate head-canon.

"It's obvious that Mr. Kinard's main issue here is the idea that an actor can replace another as the same character"

No need to talk about me in the third person, I'm the OP. Now, If it's so obvious, then how can you be wrong? My "issue" is that people are somehow against the idea of taking "the other fella" line seriously. It literally all boils down to how one interprets that single line of dialogue. I choose to go with it and therefore figure out how there can be this many guys that go by 007/James Bond. Of course the films themselves never give a straight answer because the writers probably enjoy the fan theories and discourse around it. Giving a solid answer would end decades of fan debate on the topic.

"Batman & Robin is part of the same universe as Batman Forever, that is absolutely 100% true and was absolutely the intention and intended canon, not that people can't have their own head-canon about it but still."
I'm not talking about Batman, I'm talking about the 007 franchise. Let's keep it on topic please.

"If someone wants to believe that Batman & Robin happened in a different universe to Batman Forever, they can. It doesn't matter what is objective or not."

Because it's all fictional right? "Objective Canon" really doesn't exist in the realm of fiction. It can be changed on a whim because it's literally ALL made up! When the writers write a story, is that their head-canon? They used their brains to come up with a story that they believe is "canon" right? Therefore "headcanon".

"Craig's Bond has a whole backstory that includes his birth name being James Bond, it was certainly intended that he was named James Bond at birth and they never bring up the idea that he replaced someone else once, so the intent is that there's no codename thing going on"
Who are you to say what the "intent" of everyone involved in crafting the story is? The Craig era is summed up nicely here.

I never once said, or anyone for that matter, that the brainwashing theory was intended by the writers, producers, cast, crew, etc etc etc. It's a fan theory that helps explain away plot holes and inconsistencies that this franchise is riddled with. Nobody is disputing the fact that there are serious continuity issues. And the theory works if you actually take the time to think about it and read through what I've sent.

"If there was, it'd be brought up."
Not necessarily. But the next Bond film could settle this debate once and for all....

"The M portraits in NTTD makes it a fun theory that reboot Bond is a continuation of the original series though, but you have to make a lot of assumptions for it to work."
How do you know what the intention of the writers was by including these portraits that you think are simply "fun"? And what assumptions need to be made? The portraits exist on-screen, that's hard evidence that those M's existed before the current one. Same timeline? Alternate timeline? You be the judge. The writers most likely aren't going to come out and say it for us.

"I do think that's awesome if people wanna do that, but it's tough."

Doesn't' mean it's impossible. It's actually not that hard, but people like to ignore inconvenient evidence (OHMSS) to try to force their ideas on others, which I'm not doing.

"Also, there's two video games that show alternate versions of previous films occurring in the reboot universe but set in modern day and with Daniel Craig, suggesting that there's one Bond and that an alternate version of the original timeline films occurred in the reboot universe but with Craig."

Cool. I don't count the video games. I'm only watching the films so if that ends the debate right there, so freakin be it.

"If he was intended to be brainwashed, they wouldn't have shown that his birth name is James Bond and had those video games release, regardless of whether they're canon."

Again, nobody ever once made the claim that the brainwashing theory was always intended. Not a single person.

"Personal interpretation doesn't have to adhere to creator intent though, and that's okay. As I said, "Death of the Author" is the ultimate head-canon."

Finally we agree, and I think this last line ends the debate. No need for us to continue writing walls of text trying to convince the other. Just admit you have your own interpretation and I have mine. COOL. Now go outside and play.
 
What do you mean by "taken seriously"? In the world of 007, it happened and I take it as seriously as any other fictional movie I'm watching.
so you're confirming that different franchaises are consistent with eachothers? "I take it as seriously as any other fictional movie I'm watching."
 

Latest posts

Back
Top