The Dark Knight {Spoilers Abound}

Random said:
**** Oldman that's right. I think maybe Hall becomes the riddler just because at first when he was casted the wouldn't reveal what his role was. Maybe he uses Reese or whatever
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Yeah maybe Hall is changed into The Riddler because The Joker humiliated him on Live Television his career was ruined so he became depressed and changed, or maybe he couldn't handle the experience causing him to go crazy. He might use Reese for something as well. It could happen.
 
Random said:
**** Oldman that's right. I think maybe Hall becomes the riddler just because at first when he was casted the wouldn't reveal what his role was. Maybe he uses Reese or whatever
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Um. Ahem.

Originally posted by Bluebeast
I'm still thinking that Mike Engel could end up becoming the Riddler in the next film. Maybe he helps the manhunt for Batman and becomes a freak just like the Joker in order to stop the Batman who almost got him killed in the Joker's manhunt for him. Maybe have an intense interogation scene of him and Mr. Reese where he brutalizes him but Reese doesn't give up his name and the Riddler decides to go to other villains in order to find Batman. I still think Bane would work great as the mastermind behind the fall of Batman. And of course other villains could show up in order to help take him down. I'd love to see Two-Face return in some capacity and even the Joker for a small bit. I still think Knightfall should be adapted so that Bane and Riddler break everyone out of Arkham and Batman has to face all of these villains that he put behind bars. Scarecrow, Two-Face, Joker, and some others maybe. I seem to have gone on a stream of thoughts and don't know what my point is anymore so I'll just stop.
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I think Reese as the Riddler is a brilliant idea, but he didn't really seem that intelligent - all he did to find out Batman's identity was steal a bunch of documents from Applied Sciences. And then Lucius Fox told him what a stupid idea it would be to out Wayne as Batman, and then after the Joker tells Batman to reveal himself to the public or more people will die, Reese goes on the news to reveal his identity, but later realizes that he has made a mistake when the Joker tells the citizens of Gotham to kill Reese.

I don't think Mike Engel would make sense as the Riddler....

As a joke, one bat suit was made with nipples, as in Batman & Robin (1997). It was presented to Christian Bale as the real bat suit, but he knew instantly it was a joke, having seen a few design pictures during preproduction. He did pose for some publicity photos in the "nipple" suit.
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It's Sir Michael Caine's opinion that Heath Ledger beat the odds and topped Jack Nicholson's Joker from Batman (1989): "Jack was like a clown figure, benign but wicked, maybe a killer old uncle. He could be funny and make you laugh. Heath's gone in a completely different direction to Jack, he's like a really scary psychopath. He's a lovely guy and his Joker is going to be a hell of a revelation in this picture." Caine bases this belief on a scene where the Joker pays a visit to Wayne Manor (I don't remember that scene?). He'd never met Ledger before, so when Ledger arrived and performed he gave Caine such a fright he forgot his lines.
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I think Ledger's Joker was certainly a better and more effective depiction of the character for NOLAN'S universe, and if they'd consistently met the bar they'd set with the pencil scene throughout the movie, he would've been the better Joker overall. But... Nicholson's Joker is still THE live-action Joker for me. Caine's description of Jack was exactly right, but the bottom line is there was plenty of deadly in that character and performance too. I think they sucked a bit too much of the "Joke" aspect out of Heath's character, and that disappointed me. Like I said before.... "two bombs and you can only save one"? "Kill the others or kill yourself"? It's pretty generic supervillain stuff.... it's not up to the level's the Joker's set before.

Performance wise, although yeah, it was a very engaging and entertaining performance, I was still very aware that Heath was acting the entire time, that every line and mannerism was just a carefully picked piece of a show. And plenty of other people could've done it, and look better in the part while doing so, and not be into drugs and unable to return for the next one, so ultimately and after all this time........... I'm still upset that they chose Heath Ledger for the role, and it wasn't good enough acting to deserve an Oscar nomination.
 
Planet-man said:
Like I said before.... "two bombs and you can only save one"? "Kill the others or kill yourself"? It's pretty generic supervillain stuff.... it's not up to the level's the Joker's set before.
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I was almost positive that scene was a trick, telling the ferry-people that they have the other boats detinator, while they actually have their own, so the boat that chooses to destroy the other would only end up blowing themselves up.

either that or the detinators were exactly like The Joker's detinator, and they'd end up blowing both boats up.
 
Oh, I just got an idea for the next one. Mike Engel was the number 1 anti-batman guy, I figure after the movie since a lot of the cover-up story didn't add up the Engel as a reporter would find this out and sets out to clear Batman's name. And devises a plan to clear his name by creating a villain persona with intelligence that only Batman could contend with. In the end revealing clues that it was two face who killed the people. This would be more of a subplot to a more dangerous villain
 
I hope they take Engel character, and have him become obsessed with the Harvey Dent conspiracy, because something doesn't add up, ultimatley causing him to become unhinged and violent, ends up getting fired, so he fashions the Riddler as a way to investigate the truth without cause for personal consequences. This would ultimately lead to him going up against Batman because the truth about Harvey cannot get out so Batman would have to stop him.

So it would almost be a reversal of roles of sorts, with The Riddler desperatley trying to find out the truth, and have Batman trying desperatly to stop him
 
Gemini said:
I was almost positive that scene was a trick, telling the ferry-people that they have the other boats detinator, while they actually have their own, so the boat that chooses to destroy the other would only end up blowing themselves up.

either that or the detinators were exactly like The Joker's detinator, and they'd end up blowing both boats up.
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Yeah, that stuff was obviously a worry. It was odd that they never did anything with it. The Joker saying it, like "or maybe each detonator will blow their own boat up. Or maybe each detonator will blow both boats up. Or maybe they'll blow up another hospital or a bank or a school or a PARK OR A CHURCH OR AN ORPHANAGE" etc. to Batman during the fight, attacking more ferociously with each word would've been pretty brilliant, an example of the whole planless state of unsure chaos thing.
 
as far as sequels go- my thoughts:

bane as the main villain (played by javier bardem), with riddler in a smaller role (played by joshua harto, "mr. reese"- mysteries)

have bane's origin be similar to the comic- he's finishing his father's murder sentence in jail, as his father died, and this weird south american country he lives in does things this way. he hears of this unstoppable force in gotham- batman- and makes it his life mission to defeat him- just to say he did, that he is the greatest, and to seize control of gotham from batman- this guy wants power. eventually he gets out of jail (end of sentence or breaking out... whatever)- he travels to gotham, and establishes himself as a big drug cartel lord (who conducts his drug business in his trademark mask) with his own brand of drug- a ridiculous rage 'roid that pumps up your adrenaline, making you stronger, faster, etc.- a valuable tool against batman, who is rendered a bit ineffective due to the cops being on his tail all the time. (through the movie, he would have lucius develop a sedative for this particular drug). using the money he makes from here, he begins buying up businesses especially those in competition with wayne enterprises, which is the biggest company (presumably) in the world, just so that he can say he beat out wayne enterprises (this man is driven to beat the best- physically, economically, mentally, etc.)-
all this leading to his establishing himself as a "legit" businessman in gotham.

meanwhile, mr. reese is held in police custody as an "accomplice" to batman (as he supposedly knows his identity). they are trying to get batman's identity out of him (as batman is on the run), but he refuses to give it up- batman (well, bruce) DID save his life... and he feels a bit of a life debt to batman. plus, he wants a crap ton of money.

gordon is conflicted throughout with having to hunt down his former ally, all the while having to deal with this new drug epidemic.

bane ends up making reese's bail (wayne doesn't, as he does not want to appear overly suspicious)... he hears this guy knows who batman is, and he wants to know. he initially employs reese, and then one night, at a business party, he gives reese a taste of the drug (which is highly addictive)- reese ends up being hooked, finally feeling powerful, and eventually, after reese is really addicted, bane withholds the drug from him, demanding the info of batman's identity. reese ends up giving it up of course, being the junkie he is- but of course, bane has to use a little physical persuasion, exerting his dominance.

thus begins bane's personal war against wayne and batman, setting his customers (re: adrenaline-enhanced junkies, who amount to a good number of the citizenry- a quarter perhaps?) on batman (as a spin on the breaking out of villains to wear batman down) before finally confronting him himself. i would like to think that, during all this fighting batman has to go through, he contacts lucius, asking him to contact reese and get him to do some espionage into his employer's (bane's) activities, dealings, etc. with promise for help with his addiction. this info would help batman to defeat bane. thus reese, or the riddler, is a bit of an anti-hero- a druggy who ultimately helps batman (this anti-hero angle reflects a bit on riddler's current status in the comics).


of course, id like to think also that there would be plenty of bruce and batman- bruce in the business end, and batman fighting against cops and junkies alike. it would end with reese, now recovered from his addiction, appearing on engle's show claiming to reveal the "truth" behind batman... but in fact revealing that the crimes batman has been condemned for are in truth the crimes of harvey dent (a truth he has pieced together), and that batman took the fall for it, and that batman was the one who took the city off the grip of bane's drugs, and provided the means to get off the addiction (the "antidote" thing lucius had been developing thru the movie)- revealing, in effect, that batman is gotham's true defender, and one the city can put faith in. harvey dent, however, was not evil, but was rather driven to madness by the loss of his loved ones and by the joker's influence (though this leaves a hole- what of the criminals Dent put away? unless of course bane bought them out of jail, and now they are in jail again for completely different crimes- drug addiction and conspiracy against the state with bane- and so their original sentence is inconsequential). as for the identity of batman- that is one riddle he will not give up.


thats my two cents anyways.
 
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Everyon wants Javier Bardem based on his role in No Country; I don't. He played that character once, and he doesn't need to again.

Harry Knowles of AICN actually wants him to play the JOKER.

Stupid.
 
Planet-man said:
Performance wise, although yeah, it was a very engaging and entertaining performance, I was still very aware that Heath was acting the entire time, that every line and mannerism was just a carefully picked piece of a show. And plenty of other people could've done it, and look better in the part while doing so, and not be into drugs and unable to return for the next one, so ultimately and after all this time........... I'm still upset that they chose Heath Ledger for the role, and it wasn't good enough acting to deserve an Oscar nomination.
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I thought his performance was a lot better than people who have WON Oscars before. Heath was completely embedded in his role and I don't think anyone else could have done it better.
 
Sacred&Profane said:
Everyon wants Javier Bardem based on his role in No Country; I don't. He played that character once, and he doesn't need to again.

Harry Knowles of AICN actually wants him to play the JOKER.

Stupid.
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oy no need to call anyone stupid (including me... unless you're calling knowles stupid).

i wouldnt want him to play it anything CLOSE to the way he played anton chigurh. i'd have him go a lot more suave and charismatic but still have this dangerous streak to him. i saw the intensity in his eyes in no country, sure, and from that i suppose the decision is based... but i dont want him to play that same character, no no no... i want to see a power hungry bastard who's only purpose is to be the best, who can get intensely insane.

EDIT: it also feels as if no one actually reads my ideas :(
 
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Loved it!



My girlfriend and I had an idea for Batman 3


Talia Head shows up, wanting revenge for her father's death. She hires Slade Wilson to assassinate Bruce Wayne. Maybe at the end, have Ra's reappear.
 
In the past week I'd started to become secretly apprehensive about The Dark Knight. I was starting to worry that those of you who avoided trailers and information about the movie were right and that I'd be going into this knowing exactly what to expect and that my own excitement over the movie would keep me from being able to look at this objectively, essentially I thought that the hype really would end up killing it for me. Holy mother of god, was I so fortunately mistaken.

I went to see it with my sister and my cousin, who I often go to see movies with. We'd planned to go to the noon showing, but my dad didn't relay to me my sister's message about what time we were going and I woke up late. By the time we got there, it was already 12:30 and the 1:00 showing was already sold out, so we opted for the 2:00. Which meant we had to sit in the theater for an hour and a half beforehand. This sounded like a dumb idea but by 20 minutes to showtime, it was obvious that we'd made a good decision in being the first people to get into the theater. We managed to get good seats and avoid the crowds. Later on, it took us ten minutes just to struggle out of the theater, with all the people leaving and the whole other line of people piling in for the next screening. (Funny story: At one point while we were waiting, I got up to go get a drink and when I came back, they asked me for a ticket stub. I'd honestly never been asked to do so before and they hadn't warned anyone about it. And my sister had my stub. I panicked for a moment before my sister showed up, having thought that they might not let me back in.)

As for the movie itself, as I implied, I enjoyed it immensely. There are just too many "wow" moments to recount. I didn't find any part of the movie to be slow. Nolan has done an incredible job of showing that intense actions scenes are not the pinnacle of superhero/summer movie entertainment. The real enjoyment of the movie comes at you from a lot of different places, whether it's a perfectly framed action sequence, a brilliant turn in the story, or a great moment of insight into a character. One of the first things that struck me was a feeling that everyone had upped their ante. I remember being impressed with the caliber of acting in Begins, but everyone here just seems even more nuanced and perfect, and the dialogue loses so much of its action movie stiltedness from the first movie.

I think we've had a pretty good impression of Ledger's Joker before the movie and I believe he delivered a performance that was as great as I'd expected. That being said, I felt like I'd seen enough that his performance didn't "take over" the movie they way people say it did. I really loved the film for what it was as a whole experience rather than just one performance. But don't get me wrong. I thought he was incredible, and I agree with the Oscar talk and I think not feeling so much like he stole the show allowed me to enjoy the whole movie much more. But he had a lot of ****ing brilliant moments. The "magic trick", the explanations of his scars, and his last scene: That shot of his hanging upside down like that is just so surreal and perfect. It's a great note to leave the character on. And I did indeed feel a twinge of sadness during that scene. "We're going to be doing this for the rest of our lives." If only...

I loved Gordon's "death" and "resurrection", simply because I had no idea that either was coming. When it happened, my first thought was that they can't have just killed Gordon like that, but I'd heard the suggestion that Nolan wasn't pulling any punches and that their were going to be some painful surprises. When they go to visit his family, I was beginning to become convinced and I was so upset. How could they kill Gordon!? I actually started to feel a bit sick and was thinking that I didn't expect it to be this dark. Most of the theater applauded when he came back and I suddenly felt a lot better.

Harvey's tale was quite a tragic one. Despite the brilliance of Ledger's performance, I feel like my favorite part of the moment was the last ten or fifteen minutes. Harvey's explanation of how his perspective has changed and Gordon's "Dark Knight" monologue at the very end gave me chills. Those last scenes really wrapped the film up and sealed that "epic" feeling. I agree with the sentiment that Maggie Gyllenhall did her best and made Rachel more interesting, but that it was sort of hard to care about her. What got me was more the effect that her death has on Harvey and the sort of classically tragic nature that her letter gives their situation. Gotham City's savior and the love of his life, now she's dead and he's gone mad. I hope Harvey is dead. If he came back as just another villain it would ruin the impression that that ending leaves.

There isn't really much more to say, other than to point out that the effects were great. You've gotta love the near lack of CGI. I think my only other complaint besides Rachel still not being entirely effective is that that big action sequence in the unfinished building was overly confusing. I've never agreed with the complaints about how Nolan shoots fight scenes and I've always had an easy time following them, but I was a bit lost with that one. I had a hard time telling what was going on.

But my two complaints don't equal to much in the face of such an impressive movie. This is what truly entertaining movies should be like. Just a seamless, perfect blend of action and depth that leaves you blown away. One of the most sincerely entertaining experiences I've ever had watching a movie and just about the best I can imagine a Batman movie to be.

I have no idea how they're going to ****ing top this.
 
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skotti-chan said:
Loved it!



My girlfriend and I had an idea for Batman 3


Talia Head shows up, wanting revenge for her father's death. She hires Slade Wilson to assassinate Bruce Wayne. Maybe at the end, have Ra's reappear.
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Maybe they could have the third film as something....unexpected. Like a Metal Gear Solid twist (Snake Eater). Gotham is still burning in the background, but maybe they could explore the mythical aspects of Batman by introducing Talia and staying away from Gotham for a bit. I dunno.
 
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