Is UFF the nail in the coffin?

Bass said:
Huh?

This must be one of the silliest arguments I've ever heard.

The whole point of the F4 is to face such bizarre and completely otherworldly entities. The same is for the Ultimate F4.

It'll be a problem if Spidey, the Ultimates, and the X-Men get messed up in this mess because it would be inappropriate for them.

But for the F4, it makes perfect sense.

For ****'s sake, mutants are in this universe, and aliens, and genetically engineered monsters.

But having the most scientifically advanced characters, those whose purpose it is to investigate and explore those strange things and places, is a nail in the ultimate universe coffin because it's too out there.

The N-Zone seems to be more scientifically accurate to me, than the entire Marvel concept of mutants.

My god, it would be really exciting if, instead of fighting otherworldly creatures, the imaginauts of the Ultimate universe fought cultists and armour clad CEOs. Anyone actually see the F4 film? No imagination, all dull.

The real nail in the coffin of the ultimate universe is Bendis, who likes wasting potential characters in long, drawn out arcs with bad dialogue and plodding stories that don't go anywhere.
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What he said.

Seriously, I don't think that anything in UFF is too out there. Alternate realities, genetic engineering, mysterious ancient civilizations. None of its very far from reality. Scientist are working on time machines as we speak. We've already cloned life, and I'm absolutely sure that somewhere someone's working on some weird genetic engineering. Archeaoligist believed that Troy was a fictional civilization until they found its ruins a few decades ago. UFF shows us some of the technology that we might see in our future, all be it with a bit of drama mixed in (it's a comic ya know).
 
moonmaster said:
What he said.

Seriously, I don't think that anything in UFF is too out there. Alternate realities, genetic engineering, mysterious ancient civilizations. None of its very far from reality. Scientist are working on time machines as we speak. We've already cloned life, and I'm absolutely sure that somewhere someone's working on some weird genetic engineering. Archeaoligist believed that Troy was a fictional civilization until they found its ruins a few decades ago. UFF shows us some of the technology that we might see in our future, all be it with a bit of drama mixed in (it's a comic ya know).
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Agreed with both Moonmaster and Bass. The N-Zone makes sense, and parallel universes and time travel are ACTUAL THEORIES. Yes, they are theroies, but this world says "Hey, Reed Richards has an IQ of 400, he PROVES those theories are correct!" And Atlantis? Uh. . .it's actually thought to have been an extremely advanced civilization in OUR world! The only things on the verge of unbelivable in this book are how the FF got there powers (Which Mr. Ellis did a brilliant job of explaining), and the Ani-Men. Shape-shifting reptilian aliens? Yes, they are supposedly actually real, but they are more unbelievable then, say, an alternate reality or even time-travel. Even mutants are more of a stretch, becuase honestly? What human genome would give a person the ability to emit concusive blasts from their eyes, or even manipulate magnetic fields? When I think of a real-world mutant, I think of people born with three arms, or an abnormally large head. And plus, if you really want a nail in the Ultimate Universe's coffin (Of realism, of course, not actual writing) look no further than. . .

GAH LAK TUS. :roll:
 
There aren't any scientists currently working on time travel. That is a concept to far removed from what we can comprehend. That said, scientists have successfully teleported things (particles of light, I believe) and continue to find evidence that pushes the knowledge mankind had further and further back. For example, it has been postulated that the loss of all the writings at the liberary of Alexandria pushed back the knowledge of humanity anywhere from 500 to 1000 years. Three examples: the "computer" that mechanically determined the positioning of the stars; "batteries" discovered dating to ancient Eygpt - which is fascinating enough - but what did they power?; and "primative" tribes that worshiped a second "dark" moon of two moons that circled a star thousands of years before it was "discovered" that there was not only a moon there but a twin that, due to it's orbit, is always shaded by the other. And I just heard about a documentary currently being filmed about yet another guy who thinks he's discovered the remains of Atlantis.

The multiple universe theory is nothing new and actually fits very nicely (much to the annoyance of Einstein) into Quantum Theory. And I would like to point out that it's this same theory that explains why microwave ovens and televisions work. Hell, IBM is in the midst of trying to build and Quantum computer (whatever the hell that is supposed to be) and have been said to be making progress.

Basically, all that appears in UFF is taking current theories to their greatest end and seeing where it takes them. It isn't the death knell to the Ultimate Universe. Rather, it is the expansion. It opens up all kinds of possibilities that hadn't been explored before, whether or not it's the FF, X-Men or Spiderman that ends up exploring them.

The point to the Ultimate Universe was to give new readers the chance to enjoy stories about familar characters that they may not be otherwise interested in because of the back stories that can extend forty + years (a fact that doesn't seem to bother fans of the 616 series, considering within 40 years Peter Parker is still only, what, 35). Yes, it did have a foundation in the more realistic, but that's only because current sci-fi is rooted in the more realistic. In space, no one can hear you scream...because there is no sound. Radiation will not make you into a superbeast bent on eating Tokyo (Ultimates Annual not withstanding), it will make you sick, your sick will side off and you will die and painful death. Aliens made be out amongst the stars but their not coming here because they think we're a threat to them (Ultimate Secret not withstanding)...we're good labor or tasty, for example. If they want to expand into the realm of Issaic Asamov(sp?) then more power to them...so long as they finally fix those done continuity errors caused by Ultimate Team-Up. :lol:

I can only imagine what you'll write when they finally get around to releasing Ultimate Dr. Strange (Magick being the only thing not regularly touched on in the Ultimate Universe, and one I'm betting will be coming very soon.)

*gasp* *gasp*

My fingers hurt now...
 
What exactly so "unrealistic" about the Ultimate FF? They're merely exploring facets of science that somehow we have heard of and people are trying to find out if they are true or not.

Extraterrestials? People have been fascinated about them since the '60s. True, a lot of the stuff has been disproven but this does not prove that there is no intelligent life outside Earth. It's already proven that there is extraterrestial life beyond our planet, just not intelligent yet. Oh, you can find that the Drake Equation and the Ferme? Paradox are based on real-world theories. Still, they're just theories and yet to be proven, but what would keep them from being real in the Ultimate Universe?

Alternate Dimensions? There have been a lot of theories regarding that. There's a lot of unexplained stuff that scientists are busy in solving right now.

Time Travel? This may sound quite weird, but we have a really smart mathetmatician in my high school that claims that he was nearly close in discovering the equations for time travel.

Teleportation? Like was mentioned before, to some extent, we have already done teleportation.

Some of this stuff can be possible in our lifetime. Saying that stuff like this is impossible is closing your mind to many possibilities and diversities this universe/s has to offer.

Ellis even uses a lot of psuedo-science to explain how the FF's powers work and has used several breakthroughs in science this days like the "zero point" energy are real.

Ultimate Universe unrealistic because of the UFF? The most improbable thing I can see in the Ultimate Universe are the mutants having such diverse abilities, and the logical mess the Ultimate Marvel Team Up left us with. Unless they start resurrecting characters at a regular basis, create a ridiculous army of clones in a totally senseless stories, make every person wear bright spandex without any logical reason, give every single character a mysterious past or having parents that are dimension-hopping scientists and space pirates, or have cosmic and omnipotent beings appearing all the time and turning the Marvel Universe into freakin' Star Wars, the UU is far from what 616 is.
 
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I can only imagine what you'll write when they finally get around to releasing Ultimate Dr. Strange (Magick being the only thing not regularly touched on in the Ultimate Universe, and one I'm betting will be coming very soon.)
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Actually. . .magick could be explained. But, well. . .it'll take too long to type out and I'm already late for work. But good job on all that! :D
 
Interesting. A couple replies even seem to be getting a little hostile in my direction here, so I'd like to say that I personally sit on the fence with my own argument. I mean for me, realism is terribly overrated, reading comics is all about the fantastic, bizzare adventures, in other words, escapism. But when that escapism gets a little too silly for my liking, I like to retire to the UU because it's a nice blend of the lifelike and the fantasy like. If I want to see characters time travelling or reality hopping all over the place to defeat terrorists, I could read something like Exiles, which I do.

And I know the parallel universe, teleportation and what have you are based on current scientific theory, but I still think the time travel stuff is just a load of waffle.
 
Fuzzy Birds said:
Interesting. A couple replies even seem to be getting a little hostile in my direction here, so I'd like to say that I personally sit on the fence with my own argument.

And I know the parallel universe, teleportation and what have you are based on current scientific theory, but I still think the time travel stuff is just a load of waffle.
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I'd have to say that if my response came off as a bit hostile it's ecause I think to suggest something like this is not only jumping the gun, but doing a disservice to the writers and artists that have been and are working on the various Ultimate projects. Of all the critiques I've heard of the Ultimate line, this is actually one of the harshest. Not in tone, certainly, but in content. It is also one that is so easily discarded that I'm actually a bit surprised that anyone suggested it at all, especially if the person logging to complaint does not completely subscribe to said complaint.
 
I wasn't strictly complaining, I was simply offering up a debate. I even said I liked the book. And as for insulting the writers, again, I said there was no malice or criticism intended. And I don't see how I'm jumping the gun.

And like you noticed, I'm not exactly a follower of the argument itself, so I don't see how it could be classed as harsh. I thought I was just being open minded.

Please elaborate...... but don't make me cry or anything.
 
My real problem with UFF was the fact that Doom got away with all the **** he did. Come on not even in this little **** spot (Denmark) you can do stuff like taking over peoples brain and get away with it.


Also what about Ultimate DD? A blind man fights a freakin' Bullseye in a open spot, a woman in red thows ****ing ninja stuff after bullseye but does the police do anything about it? No.
 
SeAcoW said:
My real problem with UFF was the fact that Doom got away with all the **** he did. Come on not even in this little **** spot (Denmark) you can do stuff like taking over peoples brain and get away with it.
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You can do it in Belgium.
 
SeAcoW said:
My real problem with UFF was the fact that Doom got away with all the **** he did. Come on not even in this little **** spot (Denmark) you can do stuff like taking over peoples brain and get away with it.


Also what about Ultimate DD? A blind man fights a freakin' Bullseye in a open spot, a woman in red thows ****ing ninja stuff after bullseye but does the police do anything about it? No.
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It was a Free Zone, and Doom was it's leader. He could do anything he wanted. I thought it was bull**** that the Denmark army got involved. A Free Zone is OUTSIDE of Demark's control and responsibility. What the US did was technically invade a country, but not Denmark.
 
Lynx said:
It was a Free Zone, and Doom was it's leader. He could do anything he wanted. I thought it was bull**** that the Denmark army got involved. A Free Zone is OUTSIDE of Demark's control and responsibility. What the US did was technically invade a country, but not Denmark.
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Erm...and you don't think the US military would get involved if a foreign military decided to land troops on a Native America reservation? That, technically, is not US soil but a foreign country. Funny how I just don't see that mattering much.
 
Lynx said:
It was a Free Zone, and Doom was it's leader. He could do anything he wanted. I thought it was bull**** that the Denmark army got involved. A Free Zone is OUTSIDE of Demark's control and responsibility. What the US did was technically invade a country, but not Denmark.
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Haha, funny one you don't got any idea what the free zone is m8. The free zone is REAL and it's called Christania. A place where some hippies live and doesn't pay their bills. Doom kinda build a camp there.
 
Spade said:
am i the only one that has noticed that tecnically he is not dr. doom but dr. damme? (thea makes me SOOOOO mad!!!)
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Yeah, but he calls himself Doom. Only a matter of time before he goes even more madder and starts calling himself a Doctor.
 
notTHATtodd said:
There aren't any scientists currently working on time travel. That is a concept to far removed from what we can comprehend.
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Actually, scientists are working on time travel. It may still be a ways off and the theorys are a bit complicated, but they are figuring out how we could do it in the future.
 
UltimateE said:
Seriously, you make a valid point. The monster at the end of The Fantastic sort of ruined the story for me because it removed that last bit of believability from the book - all of the books skated a very fine line between comic book and regular fiction, if that makes sense. That monster did more to ruin that than the Chitauri did.
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Funny you say that, cuz when I said it the first time, you told me this:

"No matter what, it's still a comic book." Not exact words, but that's what it was. :)


UltimateE said:
I have the same complaint about the Ultimate Iron Man mini. A kid with a brain growing throughout his entire body? Maybe if the story around it had been better, it might not be as bad. But it wasn't.
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It may be just my memory, but when was it said that the brain was growing through his WHOLE body? :sure:
 
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