Black Panther: Man Without Fear discussion (spoilers)

[E]

So, despite not really wanting to, I read Daredevil #513 - aka Black Panther: Man Without Fear #513.

I hated it but I didn't hate it.

The thing is that this would be a fine - maybe even a good - Black Panther story. BP is trying to find himself, for lack of a better term, after destroying Wakanda's vibranium. Turns out Matt Murdock personally asked him to take his place, and Foggy helped get him set up with an apartment, job, fake identity, etc.

He's a manager at a diner called Devil's Kitchen and is learning all he can about Hell's Kitchen by befriending his employees as well as the people in his building. There is a new threat trying to take over Hell's Kitchen :roll: named Vlad the Impaler :roll: :roll: who is a Romanian version of Captain America :roll: :roll: :roll:

But really, not too bad. I just hate that this has taken over a book called DAREDEVIL which is about a character named DAREDEVIL and which is not about a different character named BLACK PANTHER who is not the same character as DAREDEVIL in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Zombipanda]

So, despite not really wanting to, I read Daredevil #513 - aka Black Panther: Man Without Fear #513.

I hated it but I didn't hate it.

The thing is that this would be a fine - maybe even a good - Black Panther story. BP is trying to find himself, for lack of a better term, after destroying Wakanda's vibranium. Turns out Matt Murdock personally asked him to take his place, and Foggy helped get him set up with an apartment, job, fake identity, etc.

He's a manager at a diner called Devil's Kitchen and is learning all he can about Hell's Kitchen by befriending his employees as well as the people in his building. There is a new threat trying to take over Hell's Kitchen :roll: named Vlad the Impaler :roll: :roll: who is a Romanian version of Captain America :roll: :roll: :roll:

But really, not too bad. I just hate that this has taken over a book called DAREDEVIL which is about a character named DAREDEVIL and which is not about a different character named BLACK PANTHER who is not the same character as DAREDEVIL in any way, shape, or form.

Okay, look at it like this.

It's an attempt by Marvel to try and sell more issues of a character who has trouble keeping a solo book. They're trying to draw in Daredevil readers. I think it's a well-intentioned decision on their part. If it helps build the fan base so they can relaunch another Black Panther book when Daredevil comes back, then good for them. If not, it was worth a try.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Is T'Challa protecting Hell's Kitchen as Daredevil or as Black Panther?

 

[Zombipanda]

Is T'Challa protecting Hell's Kitchen as Daredevil or as Black Panther?

Neither.

He's Black Darepanther.

 

[E]

Okay, look at it like this.

It's an attempt by Marvel to try and sell more issues of a character who has trouble keeping a solo book. They're trying to draw in Daredevil readers. I think it's a well-intentioned decision on their part. If it helps build the fan base so they can relaunch another Black Panther book when Daredevil comes back, then good for them. If not, it was worth a try.

I know what they're trying to do. It just doesn't make any sense.

Can anyone name 1 single time where something like this as worked?

 

[Random]

I know what they're trying to do. It just doesn't make any sense.

That what annoys me about this, if you wanted to launch say Echo or a new Ronin or something with this move that would make sense. Someone with a connection to Daredevil. Black Panther, as far as I can tell they never even met I doubt they are even aware of each other. So I think this all hinges on the writer's ability to have this make sense. I can see this working if the first story has Hell's Kitchen in chaos and Black Panther happens to get involve with something and the end of the story he is swayed to try and fix Hell's Kitchen. Without that story none of it makes any logic

 

[Zombipanda]

I know what they're trying to do. It just doesn't make any sense.

Can anyone name 1 single time where something like this as worked?

Incredible Hercules?

 

[Ultimate Houde]

I know what they're trying to do. It just doesn't make any sense.

Can anyone name 1 single time where something like this as worked?

Incredible Hercules.

 

[E]

That what annoys me about this, if you wanted to launch say Echo or a new Ronin or something with this move that would make sense. Someone with a connection to Daredevil.

YES. Exactly.

Incredible Hercules?

Incredible Hercules.

Wasn't it cancelled?

 

[Captain Canuck]

There is a new threat trying to take over Hell's Kitchen :roll: named Vlad the Impaler :roll: :roll: who is a Romanian version of Captain America :roll: :roll: :roll:

Isn't Vlad the Impaler, the historical figure that gave rise to the legends about Dracula?

 

[Zombipanda]

Wasn't it cancelled?

After two years of publication, continual critical acclaim, a big event, and the possibility of spin-offs.

 

[Iceshadow]

Wasn't it cancelled?

After two years of publication, continual critical acclaim, a big event, and the possibility of spin-offs.

Yeah Chaos War is still going on, it's pretty good btw.

 

[E]

Isn't Vlad the Impaler, the historical figure that gave rise to the legends about Dracula?

Yep.






Yep.

After two years of publication, continual critical acclaim, a big event, and the possibility of spin-offs.

...but not enough sales?

 

[Zombipanda]

...but not enough sales?

Uh. Enough sales to support three (sorry, it's been longer than I thought) years of publication, two spin-off minis, and an event book (which is apparently still going on?). It's probable we might see Hercules or related characters in another series soon. It's also probable that sales weren't the deciding factor in the end of the book. It seemed more an attempt to overhaul the Hulk franchise. It was inevitable the numbering would change back at some point.

Personally, I'm skeptical about the amount of sales impact a title swap like this can really have, but it strikes me as silly to deride Marvel for trying to bolster the success of their lesser known characters.

 

[E]

Uh. Enough sales to support three (sorry, it's been longer than I thought) years of publication, two spin-off minis, and an event book (which is apparently still going on?).

You read it? Couldn't have been that good if you can't remember.

it strikes me as silly to deride Marvel for trying to bolster the success of their lesser known characters.

Even if in doing so, it lessens the success of one of their most popular characters? Come on.

 

[Zombipanda]

You read it? Couldn't have been that good if you can't remember.

I read it up until the point where they killed Hercules and split off into two miniseries. I've been meaning to catch up but just fell off the horse. It is a genuinely great book.

Even if in doing so, it lessens the success of one of their most popular characters? Come on.

I hardly think that's the case, but yes. A more popular character can take a few hits and still come back strong. Add in the fact that the character had been starting to grow stale and get backed into a corner, and it makes sense to give him a break.

 

[E]

I read it up until the point where they killed Hercules and split off into two miniseries. I've been meaning to catch up but just fell off the horse. It is a genuinely great book.

I don't doubt that it's good - I haven't read it myself but heard what seemed to be a lot of people saying it is good - and I wasn't even saying it wasn't successful. I just wondered how successful it really was if they ended it so soon (which may not have been "soon" anyway).

I hardly think that's the case, but yes. A more popular character can take a few hits and still come back strong. Add in the fact that the character had been starting to grow stale and get backed into a corner, and it makes sense to give him a break.

On his own book?! Sorry, that makes no sense at all.

 

[Zombipanda]

I don't doubt that it's good - I haven't read it myself but heard what seemed to be a lot of people saying it is good - and I wasn't even saying it wasn't successful. I just wondered how successful it really was if they ended it so soon (which may not have been "soon" anyway).

Three years is a pretty long damn time for comics these days, and my understanding is that sales were actually pretty good.

On his own book?! Sorry, that makes no sense at all.

Well, we have close to three decades of a character who's whole purpose has been to just spiral into deeper and deeper despair. Much as I liked Bendis and Brubaker's Daredevil, you can only bring a character so low, and he was really at a point where he was backed against a corner. They'll take the Captain America route. He'll get a miniseries that will undoubtedly sell like hotcakes, and then when he returns to his own series (or gets a new number one that sits side by side with Black Panther), they'll have a sales boost and hopefully a new direction for the character.

 

[nigma]

just read the 1st one, #513 and i liked it. everyone needs a new start sometimes to forget what they've done.

 

[E]

I guess I misunderstood Marvel's intent with this, because now I've seen that it's up to #521 or so. Is this a permanent/semi-permanent change to this title? There are now 2 Daredevils in Hell's Kitchen?