Women in comics

[E]

If anyone cared to boil the argument down to a couple sentences I would be most appreciative.

 

[SSJmole]

I'm neutral on this.

Yes I agree with TwilightEL that is wrong and sometimes over the top BUT I also agree with Wade's point about men are overly handsome and muscular and where stuff to show off their muscles so yeah it's a two way street.

I guess i'm saying

(Thank you marvelman for that banner you posted by the way :lol: I still love it)

 

[McCheese]

I came, I read, I asserted that Twilight's right, Wade is wrong, and McCheese knocked it out of the park on the first page, I left.

For emphasis:


For double emphasis:

You and me agreeing so whole-heartedly about something can only mean one thing...


THE APOCALYPSE IS NIGH!!!

Seriously. I remember the Steve Irwin page when I was talking about Schadenfreude and you were saying I was a troll. Who could have imagined we'd ever find ourselves agreeing like this?

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

If anyone cared to boil the argument down to a couple sentences I would be most appreciative.

TwilightEL says that in comics, for the most part, women are just sex objects.

I said that this is true, but it works the other way too.

That's basically the whole thing.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Twilight is right. Wade is right. I still like Michael Turner, Greg Land, Frank Cho and teh purty picshures.


And with that.....

 

[Jaggyd]

Yeah, I'm with Twilight-El on this one, women have been treated as eye since the beginning of time. That seems to be our role in entertainment in general.

My only real question is for Wade, you mention how there is a trend of straight characters being suddenly being made gay. Aside from the Kathy Kane re imagining (which is amusing since she started as a Beard for Bruce), I don't see it, as much as I'd love to see more GLBT characters.

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

I'm neutral on this.

Yes I agree with TwilightEL that is wrong and sometimes over the top BUT I also agree with Wade's point about men are overly handsome and muscular and where stuff to show off their muscles so yeah it's a two way street.

I guess i'm saying

(Thank you marvelman for that banner you posted by the way :lol: I still love it)

TwilightEL says that in comics, for the most part, women are just sex objects.

I said that this is true, but it works the other way too.

That's basically the whole thing.

See, it's not like that. Men always show their gigantic muscles, but when they are doing something like punching an alien or something like that, the artist doesn't focus on his penis or his butt or how hot he is in that pose. They draw the guy smashing the thing in a way that you get up your chair and say "****ING AWESOME". When it's a girl he need to have the breast showing up (never with an arm in front of it) or the butt or even both. People won't get up of the chair and scream, people will get up their chair and go to the bathroom.

 

[E]

TwilightEL says that in comics, for the most part, women are just sex objects.

I said that this is true, but it works the other way too.

That's basically the whole thing.

Thank you.

I agree with TwilightEL and until things change (i.e. never), comic readers (even ones who read more mature titles) will always look like immature pervs. Mighty Avengers set mature comics readers back 20 years.

I sort of agree with Wade_Wilson...I guess it can bee seen as objectification in some weird way....but sex objects? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

Thank you.

I agree with TwilightEL and until things change (i.e. never), comic readers (even ones who read more mature titles) will always look like immature pervs. Mighty Avengers set mature comics readers back 20 years.

I sort of agree with Wade_Wilson...I guess it can bee seen as objectification in some weird way....but sex objects? I'm not seeing it.

Not objectified as sex objects, but rather just an unobtainable fantasy of how males "should be".

And again, reguarding Skotti's comments, Ultimate Colossus comes to mind, but again, it's not characters being made gay, it's gay characters used for fanservice.

 

[E]

Not objectified as sex objects, but rather just an unobtainable fantasy of how males "should be".

That I can agree with. It's different from female characters since those are only done to appease prepubescent hormones, but "unattainable fantasy" is a pretty succinct way to put it.

 

[SSJmole]

See, it's not like that. Men always show their gigantic muscles, but when they are doing something like punching an alien or something like that, the artist doesn't focus on his penis or his butt or how hot he is in that pose. They draw the guy smashing the thing in a way that you get up your chair and say "****ING AWESOME". When it's a girl he need to have the breast showing up (never with an arm in front of it) or the butt or even both. People won't get up of the chair and scream, people will get up their chair and go to the bathroom.

when a woman does it it doesn't focus on her ***** or her *** it mostly shows her breasts which you could argue shows the upper body strength. See big boobs make men hot but women get hot for men's muscles so the two are equal.

Also it's a confidence thing. confident men wear tight muscle showing things to flaunt their muscles and alot of confident women show off the breasts. Even more so as a superhero when they get to cast off their normal persona to be superheroes

that's why more females secret identities are not sexy but the hero part is. A panel highlighting for example supergirls breasts is equal to one showing a ripped superman lifting something heavy

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

when a woman does it it doesn't focus on her ***** or her *** it mostly shows her breasts which you could argue shows the upper body strength. See big boobs make men hot but women get hot for men's muscles so the two are equal.

Also it's a confidence thing. confident men wear tight muscle showing things to flaunt their muscles and alot of confident women show off the breasts. Even more so as a superhero when they get to cast off their normal persona to be superheroes

that's why more females secret identities are not sexy but the hero part is. A panel highlighting for example supergirls breasts is equal to one showing a ripped superman lifting something heavy

I really don't think that this works for women as it works for men, dude. It is far from equal.

 

[McCheese]

I really don't think that this works for women as it works for man, dude. It is far from equal.

Indeed.

 

[SSJmole]

I really don't think that this works for women as it works for men, dude. It is far from equal.

I agree but who is the target audience for comics?

At a rough estimate I would say males aged 10-30. So they have to gear towards them more. Look at woman's fiction , Men are either the handsome prince charming types or arrogant jerks no middle ground.

Is it fair? Maybe not but again it's a target audience. It's like why in american films are english people butlers or cockneys? Because that's how America sees us. It may annoy me but I don't care I can accept it as It's just the way things roll.


Simple as

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

I agree but who is the target audience for comics?

At a rough estimate I would say males aged 10-30. So they have to gear towards them more. Look at woman's fiction , Men are either the handsome prince charming types or arrogant jerks no middle ground.

Is it fair? Maybe not but again it's a target audience. It's like why in american films are english people butlers or cockneys? Because that's how America sees us. It may annoy me but I don't care I can accept it as It's just the way things roll.


Simple as

And why do you think they are mainly males? Because apparently, people just care about the target audience and ignores people that could be potential readers! It's a vicious circle and the companies should have the initiative to break it.

 

[SSJmole]

And why do you think they are mainly males? Because apparently, people just care about the target audience and ignores people that could be potential readers! It's a vicious circle and the companies should have the initiative to break it.

It's beacuse comics are not main stream enough even if they have films. People who read are viewed as geeks. Plus comics are about action let's face it most (not all) most women like drama but not action.

It's like go watch die hard or rambo in the cinema , I guarantee you that at least 90% of the crowd watching will be male. Then go watch a film a like titanic , 90% of the crowd watching were women.

If you try appealing more to the non-target audience most of the time you piss off your fans you have. e.g Marvel tried getting new readers with civil war and look how the fans they had reacted

 

[Iceshadow]

Thank you.

I agree with TwilightEL and until things change (i.e. never), comic readers (even ones who read more mature titles) will always look like immature pervs. Mighty Avengers set mature comics readers back 20 years.

THANK YOU! I mentioned something like that in the other thread, it's hard to argue that comics can be for mature readers to someone that doesn't read them, when they can just wave a cover that's sporting a pair of DDs in your face.

 

[Mavericker]

Hi TwilightEl-you asked me what I meant by tomboys in comics:

Yes, the rough-and-tumble ladies who fight hand-to-hand combat.

I forgot you're a female-why were you saying my comments about comic book tomboys are off-topic?-I was refering to comic book females. :?

 

[Caduceus]

You want to talk about annoying trends?? Ok, here's one. The compulsion that the female part of fandom has to make EVERY CHARACTER gay. Every single one. Type in "Dick Grayson" on google. You know what the second or third image is? A picture of him and Roy Harper, nude, making out on a bed. This is what's known as yaoi, and it is, in every way, just as offensive as the dire need of fanboys to see their favorite heroine's in skimpy outfits. What's with the sudden fad of making clearly heterosexual characters gay?

If it bothers you, don't go looking for it. There are plenty of places around for just about any and all fandoms that aren't interested in yaoi either.

The difference, as I see it, is the fact that yaoi is either a) source material, meaning if you don't like yaoi, you probably aren't going to be reading/watching it for the same reasons you aren't watching Queer as Folk or b) a fan reaction, in which case, go somewhere else. The internet's a big place dude, and there's plenty of room for everyone.

 

[Gothamite]

I hate when they draw Superman as being a big, hulkish man-beast of musc le, because he just looks dumb and loses all the dynamicity (is that a word?) of his look.

I also hate it when they draw Lois as being sexy as hell, with huge boobs and a curvy body, because they're missing the whole point. Lois is supposed to be the opposite of perfect. She's supposed to be the girl who gets out of bed at 5 am and runs a comb through her hair, grabs a cup of coffee and runs out to work. Not the ultimately sexy goddess who gets groomed for four hours in a beauty salon everyday.